1st dibbs to all OGTA members before I advertise it for sale. I know some of you have been looking for a 12a which is getting impossible to find. This is a low mileage 12a running in excellent condition. Did I say excellent condition!!! 35k. This baby purrs like a kitten. No hiccups at all cold or hot! It comes complete from carb to oil pan. This includes a modified Nikki by Yaw performance, intake manifold, also alternator & distributor is included. Just drop in and go. Anyone interested PM me.

-roland

 

This Monster belongs to my buddy here in Ga from St. Criox U.S.V.I. This car is crazy wicked!!! If you pull up next to this car on the road trust me you will be

 

OOOOOoooohhh I like it.

 

I called Mazdatrix (by recommendation of Racing Beat), and they said I'll be good. I'll just have to tune it a bit, and I'll lose a little off the top end, but it will be kosher otherwise.

Quad

 

Is Holly the only OGTA-er to come up for the B3R run? Looks to be a good time.

https://www.rx7club.com/se-rx-7-forum-35/blue-ridge-parkway-oct-24-25-a-864584/

 

I just got off the phone with MazdaTrix. I do not know who you spoke with but you have wrong info. Mazdatrix sells the carb & intake combo which is actually the Racing Beat system. It is a 600CFM! 465CFM is not enough fuel. BEWARE of flying objects out your exhaust. You may end up with 2 - 1 rotors. Just trying to give some advise. Good luck.

 

I know Mazdatrix sells the 600cfm carb for the 13B, but the 465cfm will run and not blow up the engine. The 465 isn't the recommended size, but it will run, just not really well.

Quad

 

Just keep in mind that running lean will pop an apex seal.

-roland

 

the 465 can be richened up if needed to work well enough, just wont flow as much air as the 600 so top end will suffer.

 

How could I go about doing this? New jets?

Quad

 

So then it would foul out plugs alot easier. Sounds like a headache. So richen it to work but when you floor it it will suffer. Talk about bass ackwards

 

A whole lot better than not running until I can save some money to get a 600

Quad

P.S. I don't remember who it was, I think it was Collin, who said they would let me borrow their car for the day? I again have a hot date 2 hours from me, and request humbly the use of your car. I'll pay if you so desire. I just don't trust the 1 rotor to make it...

 

I give up.

 

alrighty i will plan on being there look forward to meetin u guys

 

yes i'd try one step larger jet. but see how it does as it first.

we're always going to have different opinions on the subject. just don't make me look like i have no clue as to what i'm talking about. since i can't take the time to look for it as i'm at work, someone here has in there sig the formula to calculate carb size. i tried it once and the results i got even the 465 is too big. i've also read where some were using the 465 on sp 12as, and for the sp 13b i have is 600. i've come up in rotaries thinking that when porting these engines, the 12a and 13b will produce around the same hp, only the 13b would yield alittle more torque due to the slightly larger displacement. now i could be wrong in everything i've ever learned about rotaries, and i'm sure u've building a lot more engines than i have and have way more tuning experience. mine has never been tuned. a friend had it with this engine in his rx4 right out of the box. when i took possession of the engine for a rebuild, i also rebuilt the holley. it's been running ever since. this is how i'm seeing it. the 465 will flow 465cfm of air. the 600, 600cfm of air. making the 465 alittle richer would make it handle the 6 port 13b better but not being able to flow as much air as the 600 will cause the engine to not perform as well at full throttle as it would with the 600.

 

we're always going to have different opinions on the subject. just don't make me look like i have no clue as to what i'm talking about. since i can't take the time to look for it as i'm at work, someone here has in there sig the formula to calculate carb size. i tried it once and the results i got even the 465 is too big. i've also read where some were using the 465 on sp 12as, and for the sp 13b i have is 600. i've come up in rotaries thinking that when porting these engines, the 12a and 13b will produce around the same hp, only the 13b would yield alittle more torque due to the slightly larger displacement. now i could be wrong in everything i've ever learned about rotaries, and i'm sure u've building a lot more engines than i have and have way more tuning experience. mine has never been tuned. a friend had it with this engine in his rx4 right out of the box. when i took possession of the engine for a rebuild, i also rebuilt the holley. it's been running ever since. this is how i'm seeing it. the 465 will flow 465cfm of air. the 600, 600cfm of air. making the 465 alittle richer would make it handle the 6 port 13b better but not being able to flow as much air as the 600 will cause the engine to not perform as well at full throttle as it would with the 600.[/QUOTE]

My reply was not to you - so please do not feel offended. I never said you did not know what you were talking about! This guy is new to rotaries. My point was he has already blown up a 12a and I was trying to save him trouble with his 13b!

 

My reply was not to you - so please do not feel offended. I never said you did not know what you were talking about! This guy is new to rotaries. My point was he has already blown up a 12a and I was trying to save him trouble with his 13b![/QUOTE]

Well, if you're right, you can say told ya so and slap me on the wrist. I've had word from 3 people now saying it will run, just not well, and two saying it won't. No offense to you or your knowledge, but 3 beats 2. And desperate times call for desperate measures. It's either keep driving on a busted 12A which could blow at any moment, or attempt to resurrect the 13B until I can get my hands on a 600. I don't plan on leaving it a 465, but it will do for a short while until I can sell this body and motor and get some cash in my pocket.

Quad

 

Well, if you're right, you can say told ya so and slap me on the wrist. I've had word from 3 people now saying it will run, just not well, and two saying it won't. No offense to you or your knowledge, but 3 beats 2. And desperate times call for desperate measures. It's either keep driving on a busted 12A which could blow at any moment, or attempt to resurrect the 13B until I can get my hands on a 600. I don't plan on leaving it a 465, but it will do for a short while until I can sell this body and motor and get some cash in my pocket.

Quad[/QUOTE]

I understand - Good Luck!

 

Some pictures from installing the Holley Blue onto "Nightmare" today with Ben and his girlfriend. (I forgot her name, Sorry!)


The 3 cars


Fuel from the fuel line just wouldn't stop, so I used my oil catcher (clean, never used)


It poured like this for probably 10 minutes....


For laying in that puddle of gas to install that Holley Blue, I donated what we caught in the oil pan, random bucket I had, and even an old 2 liter of root beer.

Interesting install. Still not done, need to get some new fuel hoses, the old ones aren't long enough to reach all the way around the pump. Need some clamps too to get the hoses to stay, the nozzle is so small and the fuel lines are so big...

We'll see what happens soon enough. This is only the beginning...

Quad

 

Tim, I can't get any response from the OGTA on this. Thanks for mentioning it. BTW, Jeremy will be coming up too. I hope we have nice weather to enjoy the drive and foliage.

See you next weekend.

 

Well, I can get a Holley 600 shipped to me for $450. Full unit, so I could sell the 465 as soon as the 600 gets here. I'll even have a spare manifold to sell. But I don't have the money now. I can afford about $250 now, unless Ben gives me some more deposit on the SE or Ray will advance me the $100 on the motor....

Unless someone wants to pay me for the 465 or the RB manifold ahead of time, so I can get the 600....

Quad

 

I agree that the 465 Holley is plenty. In fact, I doubt you would even see a performance increase with the 600. In fact, I don't see how you could possibly benefit from the 600 without a bridgeport, boost, or nitrous.

A 13b = 80 cubic inch, so it moves 80 cubic inches of air per rotation. Assume 7000 RPM redline:

7000 RPM*80 cubic inch / (12*12*12) = 324 cfm

Add 15% to give some margin and you get: 324 * 1.15 = 372 cfm

Even at 8000 rpm, you would need about 425 cfm

This all assumes 100% filling of the combustion chamber and even that typically isn't true at higher rpm (filling is less). So 465 cfm is plenty. There is no way that you need more without adding a rotor, increasing the redline a bunch, boosting, etc.

I am not sure why they recommend the 600. I think that they, like most, thinks that bigger always is better. Usually the reverse is true. A carb that is too large will hurt low end performance and not increase top end at all.

You may not need to rejet either. I would run it the way it is. You can toss a wideband O2 sensor on sometime and see what your AFRs are and then you'll know if you need to bump up your jetting or not.

 

Holy ****. I'm loving this advice. Saves me SO MUCH MONEY! I love all of you. With a passion.

Holy ****. I'm literally beaming with glee as I type this. Thanks Kurt. You are a savior to my heart and bank account...

How would I go about donning the wideband O2 sensor?

Quad

 

You mean, Kent. I do have a brother named Kurt, though. hehe

For a wideband, you just need to have a bung welded on you exhaust. You can use a narrow band (like the GSL-SE O2 sensor) and an A/F ratio gauge. This is the cheapest solution. They aren't the most accurate, though. They basically will tell you if you are lean, rich, or in between, but not very good at telling you exactly how rich/lean.

A wideband O2 sensor is more expensive (say $200 and up), but they will tell you exactly how rich or lean you are. You really only need it to tune, so sometimes it makes sense to get a couple people together to buy one and then you can switch it between cars for tuning. Once you get your jets dialed in, you can remove the O2 sensor if you wanted.

The narrow band setup would be about $40-$50 plus whatever to get the bung welded to your exhaust. I know Crit has the narrpw band setup on his GSL-SE, so you could probably talk to him about how he likes it. Wideband is better for tuning, though.

 

I said Kent. Shhhh.....

And I guess I'll stick with the 465 for now. I trust Kent. Not that I don't trust you Roland, it just saves me a ton of money. If it runs like someone pooped in the motor, I'll go to the 600. We will see in the next few days...

Quad