Alkycontrol

In laymans terms. First understand that the methanol shot in is only a small percentage of your fueling. So if your on speed density, your tuning based on MAP. And if you look at your VE tables, the numbers(inj dc) increase as the MAP increases. So now your alcohol as the MAP increases, increases as well. The adjustments are made to your VE tables to offset the additional fueling replaced with the methanol.

Understand that methanol is shot way upstream, unlike a fuel injector sitting above a port. This is why you cannot get real heavy with the injection, due to distribution issues, air saturation, etc. And all you need is "close" to have the benefit. Splitting atoms will not yield any more horsepower or increased drivability. Remember to understand the time it takes for the liquid shot in to make combustion. And understand the time it takes to offset a pressure change on a pump. Its not a fuel injector that is instant on or off. There is a delay, always will be. Always will be close. The old hobbs switch style systems when used with small nozzles worked for a limited amount of cars, the controllers came in to fill in the void and make the systems closer.. What happens on paper and in theory not always applies to real world. Just like the radiator sprayer

KISS.. Keep It Simple. Now the flexibility afforded by your system as to what and how.. I have no data.

Enzo.. I did a few months ago an airboat with twin PT67's, 572 CI, FAST, blah blah blah.. 1500 on pump gas

I can post a VE datalog if you wish.

coolingmist

you need to re-read this thread. my company has been attacked left and right by AC.

Do you think the Rx-7 club is a huge market? I love this forum, but its a niche market. And yes, I would not use "1500" kits as something to brag about

obviously we dont discuss that and its not important

We test all of our products for Q/A, etc before we sell them. We sell these for a wide range of vehicles. Our customers can dyno thier vehicles (and many do) if they choose to.

we test all of our products on our 1994 Rx7 and our Elise will will get our controller as soon as we turbo it.

Our kits are far ahead of the competitors. What Our competitor cant do is compete with our product so he trys to distract you.

The AlkyControl unit is an analog unit built from Parts not unlike those at Radio Shack. Its overpriced and lacks features. he can go on and on about what a great racer he is, about what ever he wants. At the end of day if you listed our products side by side, you will see there is no comparision.

I see 2 people in this thread that have an alkycontrol kit, again thats not what its about.

Good luck with that one.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

I guess I got what I wished for, lol. Anyways I think Coolingmist has been the most professional in this whole thread. For what it's worth I think highly of businesses that retain a level of professionalism while being attacked by others. This just shows his confidence in his product. I don't see attacking other companies to make thier business look better as a strong point in anyone’s company or in their product.

BDC

I agree. However, he hasn't been attacked. He's been responded to by way of technical questions and requests for legitimate data when he's spent much of his posting time here speaking highly of his products. If anyone has been taking cheap pop-shots, it's been him.

B

coolingmist

Anyone that has any legitimate technical questions about our product I will answer. For example:

Question: How many amps can your unit handle:
Answer : Up to 30, but the pump draws a max of 10.

Question: Do you have any dyno sheets
Answer, Just some from other cars, none from RX-7s.

Question: What are some of the key features of your unit:
Answer:........insert answer here.


Questions I will not answer:

Question: Whats inside your unit? What technology is it? What kind of heatsink, etc.

Anything legit I will be glad to answer. I have said I dont have dyno sheets for any Rx-7. I can only say that in so many ways.

so once again, ANY legit question about our product, its features or HOW the product stacks up against a competitors I will talk about till I am blue in the face. If you want to talk about my racing skills, engine building skills, I will not entertain.

I can not be any more clear than that. Have a question about the product, ASK IT.

BNA_ELLIS

For what it's worth I have a snow performance kit. I've had my water injection for 18 months. I had been looking for about 6 months before I bought my snow performance kit. At the time cooling mist didn't have a controller with their kit, which is what I was looking for at the time, I never knew of the Alky kit at the time, otherwise otherwise that would of been my first choice.
When I bought mine I thought snow performance was the only company that had a controller with there kit. They modify the pump so you can run methanol, pump runs at 140 psi, install is very quick and simple. The quality of the water tank was poor I had to add some sealant to a small hole in the bottom seam. Other than that the kit works well, I've been happy with it. I run 1.4 bar on pump fuel and water injection. I have since bought a few more snow kits and installed on other cars again water tank quality a bit below par but, it's simple and works.
They provide good customer support via their forum and will do custom work if you want also.
I bought my kit 18 months ago planning to run 50/50 water methanol mix, but after speaking to a few people I didn't as I was advised that the methanol is too corrosive, one went as far as to tell me of an engine he stripped down that was injecting methanol and the rotors were all pitted because of it.
If anyone wants to run water only it will work and will work well, if any want to run water methanol mix this will work even better, if anyone wants to run straight methanol, from what I understand it's the ultimate.
Both Alky and cooling mist look like they sell good products, personaly I only like to fit stuff on my car that's simple and has as few buttons as possible, but that's just me.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

My question at this point is for BDC,

When did you become such a proponent of ALchy Injection? I remember when you used to be totally against it. Just curious what changed your mind..

Rat

BDC

I was never really totally against it. I was just unsure about it; not very well-read or researched on the subject. Over the past several months, however, I've been taking more of an interest in learning about it to see if it was a viable thing. Like water injection, the two are practically, realistically barely touched in the Rx7 community. We're just not messing with it at all as a whole group is concerned. Sure, there's a few people here and there such as yourself that are experimenting with it, but it's not a commonly-used or commonly-sought after modification like, say, single turbos and standalone EFI systems are. So, with that, I think that's kind of where I was coming from originally. Since I had very little practical experience with it, I didn't choose to recommend it to anyone. I had nothing to go on.

A few months ago, I was talking with Howard Coleman about it. We'd been trading emails, phone calls, etc about links to water and alcohol injection, checking out the history of it, and that kind of a thing. One day I decided to kick back and search up more on it. I started with water and wound up over on alcohol, reading alot of research articles about it and its use in combustion engines. Then, I got back w/ Howard and shared w/ him what I'd found. Before I could even get a word out, he'd told me about a guy (Razor) who was having wild success with an overkill alcohol injection kit he'd had going on the Turbo Regal and Buick GN cars and such. So, I contacted him and did some research on his hardware. After seeing his own results as well as results on a high number of others producing lots of power on pump gas, I was sold. Fast forward to today and here we are. Honestly, I hope this is something people start taking more seriously. I hope it becomes big enough on the same scale as the single turbo and standalone EFI systems are currently in the community. That's why I intend on getting this system up and running on my car and getting some thorough testing done. With the data, I hope I can show its viability and worthwhileness for our engines.

B

Fish

GoRacer, this is a good idea, but you need to find jets that will create a finer mist than washer jets.

Reason for me saying this, is I tried it and found that unless you are moving at high speed the water doesnt move past the I/C properly and heat soaks.

Try and find a finer jet or take a feed from the WI setup and use a couple of .3 or .4mm jets.

Fish

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Well, I have been running the same kit for well over a year now, and I am totally sold on Alchohol. I guess you could call it "experimenting" but I have been arguing FOR alcohol for a long time, after myt good friend TREVOR got me into it. Its nice to see some of the more notable builders/tuners beginning to see the benefits of using these types of systems.

Hopefully you will like the results! Its a fun system to have! Just dont forget, your exhaust smells like *** when you are spraying! ..

BDC

Mind if I ask how much volume you're spraying? My goal is around 2000cc/min at higher loads. I plan on supplanting about 1/4 of my gasoline fuel with alcohol injection. I want 25+psi on pump gas, baby!

B

TT_Rex_7

Would it be best to spray alcohol as close to the ports as possible, or as far as possible?

As the progress continues on my custom intake manifold, I've been thinking about adding bungs in each runner, right where it bends into the ports. It would literally shoot straight into the combustion chamber. I was thinking about running a distribution block to feed 4 alcohol injectors for each runner. Any pros/cons to doing this? Logic tells me it would be best since each port would get an equal amount, rather than spraying it at the TB, where it won't be distributed equally...

-Alex

Alkycontrol

Non issue. Dont complicate the setup.

HTH

Alkycontrol

Here's a temp data log before and after.

HTH

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...light=cal+alky

dubulup

oh **** that was funny!! This thread has become quite entertaining...

this "our" is it you and ZeroBanger?() or just you?

Alkycontrol

Denatured leaves a smell. Methanol is odorless

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Could you please answer "GooRoo's" question also? All I want to know is can it be made rotary specific, whether it be the controler, the injectors, software, or whatever. Your product looks very nice (niver then aquamist) and complete which is fine in the piston MAF world but will it work with a rotary MAP setup?

coolingmist

Thanks for the question. Unless I am missing something I answered his question that was directed to me.

Our system was designed on the FD, we have one as a project car. We have the ability to do anything with the software that is necessary, if we need to do something rx-7 specific we could. with the wide range of tuning you can do with the software there is no need. Once we get our trunk mount tanks in stock perminently, we will be doing a stainless steel trunk mount kit specific to the rx-7, but keep in mind our current kits will work exceptional.

GooRoo, if you still have a question you need me to answer let me know.

David

sleeperfc

ok i have been following this thread and have been planning to buy a kit for some time.

i have a question about controllers and running without one.

1. What are the disadvantages to running without the controller, just a single stage fatty shot of alcohol spray?

If your tuning to it anyway... and pick a jet that gives enough for full boost at peak power rpm then it seems like it would be ok.

2. Dont our cars use the most fuel at peak torque anyway?

Seems like if the peak torque thing is right then the areas of the rpm range that would recieve the extra spray provided by the single stage system would be extra safety/overkill.

*all of this is based on the assumption that the map has/will be tuned to the target a/f ratio, and egt's in check.

any input on this?

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

I don't still have a question.... I wanted to know if you could make a 2d map based on the boost and 0-5V input (which I want to wire to RPM) so that I can recreate a speed-density system, but spraying the water/alcohol mix instead of fuel. You said that I could, I just need to figure out how to get RPM to 0-5V and then I need a new flash/software from you.

I view this all as several stages (for rx7 or speed density systems):

1) Single pressure turn on, no flow variability
2) Multiple pressure capability, flow varies with single control (boost/maf etc)
3) 2D Map of pressure vs RPM to vary flow
4) Precision injectors controlled by 2D map, plus aux inputs to deal with multiple factors (temps/load etc) essentially a whole new ECU for WI/AI

From the 'factory' both the Varicool and Alkycontrol systems (as advertised) I think are high level 2 systems. I'm just looking to get my Varicool to level 3, a consistent gas to water/alcohol ratio across all pressure and rpm ranges.

I'm not sure what else you thought I was asking GoRacer?

BDC

Here's a "Legitimate", technical question -- Is the CoolingMist system, any of them, capable of 2000cc/min of output delivery under very high pressure?

While I'm at it, how well do nylon tubes hold up to high-pressure alcohol?

B

coolingmist

thought so, tkhanks.

coolingmist

Running with our without a controller is beneficial, but we believe that with a controller is far better in any situation. regardless of the state of tune without a controller its just guess work with the spray, you may have too much or too little. Another thing to consider is without a controller you dont have the ability to spray the system at low boost, because the system will have too much flow and have massive hesitation.

I can say without any doubt that non-controller kits work, its just a question of what works "better".

David

coolingmist

Our systems will pump as much as 1.2 gallons per minute if necessary.

Nylon tubing is fine with the alcohol. We rcommend that if the hose will be under extreme heat to use our stainless steel teflon hose.

TT_Rex_7

For those that don't know, 1.2 gallons per minute is ~4,542 cc per minute.

BTW, how do you feel about my idea of having a water/alcohol injector in each runner, right at the port on the motor?

-Alex