J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

My sincerest apologies to AlchyControl. The kits we were having problems with are the Snow Performance kits. Again, please accept my deepest apologies, as I have no first hand experience with your kits.

Rat

BDC

The second you take personal pop-shots is the second that you realize that the objective truth doesn't defend your point-of-view. I'd rather talk about the technical merits of the products here instead, David.

Only once, but you seem to have wholeheartedly ignored both my questions and comments. Your lack of data presentation speaks for itself. Let the customer judge for his or herself about that.

Of Course you need to promote the 500hp figure (if it's true)! Doesn't it stand to reason that the people on this forum are looking for solid, empirical results from other Rx-7 owners that've used your product with glorious success? Doesn't it make sense that you'd want to capitalize on that as a way of promoting your product? The members of this forum are looking for numbers -- they're looking for good reasons why they should plunk down several hundred bucks to purchase your system over someone else's. Doesn't it therefore make sense to cater to the desires for real-world results of those same owners to win them over?

Yes, and you'd think it reasonable... nay, expected, that the manufacturer of this product, when having received significantly positive results from the use of that product from the vendor on this very forum, would heavily promote those results as a way of winning the customer over. Instead, what I've gotten from you when asked about the technical specifications and resulting, real-world data is spin-artistry as well as a little bit of personal pop-shots.

I can't speak for everyone, but I for one will not spend money on a system whose technical merits cannot be addressed by the manufacturer himself in a public forum.

Other than the little stabs you've taken at me and a couple of others on here that've continued to ask the important questions, I don't know you or your systems at all. I've seen the stage 1 system on eBay a few times. I've also tuned a car that had one of your single stage systems on it; a mutual friend of ours on this forum. This "our products reputation..." claim is absolutely worthless if it has little to no practical data to back it up. I could wave my own BDC Motorsports flag around all day long and say, "My products' reputation stands by itself. People know me and my products." but it wouldn't mean squat if I don't have a slew of happy customers who share in that. Again I ask, where is everyone? Where are the real-world results of people making gobs of power on water injection who wouldn't otherwise make gobs of power without it?

It's too bad that it's not that simple -- water and alcohol aren't the same by any stretch. About the only thing they have in common is they're liquid at room temperature. Otherwise, they require two different types of hardware to run efficiently and with any semblence of reliability. With alcohol, due to its corrosive and combustible nature, great care must be taken in the design and engineering of the product that's being used to inject it. In this case, I've still yet to see anything substantive on your part that proves that your system is capable of handling it properly. Water? Absolutely. Your system seems to be a good system for the purposes of injecting water as a small addition to the charge for the purposes of dropping charge temps and promoting engine durability, everything else remaining equal. If it were my goal to do that, I'd take a good look at your system. However, I don't believe it's anywhere near close as capable as Razor's Alkycontrol system for the use of alcohol as a secondary fuel.

Regards,

B

P.S... other than GooRoo and his track data, I still haven't heard a peep from anyone else out of this alleged group of "100's of Rx-7's" that have your system.

coolingmist

I took no pot shots on anyone. I took offense to someone saying that our controller cant handle 30 amps. You have your kit, I dont need to discuss the technical merits, if someone wants to know they can ask me or read this thread to to see about them. You are just looking for a fight.

I keep forgeting how much data your company has on Rx-7s with that kit. Please.....

we dont collect customer data. We design, manufacture and sell the kits. We dont collect dyno sheets, if a customer wants to display it, they can.


Once again, I will answer any questions on the capabilities of our system. You are asking for dyno sheets and performance sheets for Rx-7s, I dont have them.
feature to feature, quality to quality we believe our kits compare favorably to others.



Do you want me to post 2 dyno sheets from 2 different STIs using our controller kit? If it will make you happy I'll do it. You were asking for them with an Rx-7, I said I dont have it. here is one from a WRX since now you seem to seem to not be asking rx7 specific.



I hope this makes you happy.

BDC, Frankly I dont care. Anyone that looks at our system or uses it and compares to the other will see the difference. You can believe what you want, I really dont care.

And for the record, I am not debating the "alcohol vs water", our customers can run either or both.

You like Alkycontrol, I am happy for you. Im proud of our systems and i stand by everything i said.

Alkycontrol

No probs brother

:smiley_12

Alkycontrol

Ahhem.. straight meth will make 5% with no tuning. And up to 800WHP has proved to be so. Motor at 12.0:1 add alky and drop it to 11.5:1.. will pickup 5%.

Water will put the power down, unless the intake air charge severely overheated.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

That is very dependent on the already existing mixtures. If you slap one of those kits on a vehicle that is already close to too rich, you can run the risk of reducing power.

Remember, my statement was based on a STOCK car with ABSOLUTELY NO fuel control.

Alkycontrol

It cant.. well maybe for few seconds.. then a puff of smoke comes out.. hell my Astron 20 amp power supply has a heatsink the size of 20 varicool controllers.


Ok.. so to recap, you make a "kit".. that will suppossedly increase power on an engine.. you develop a controller.. to latter replace with a another controller.. to latter replace with a newer better controller.. yet have no data to justify changes.. except for rants on how much better it is.. All in an effort to make something flashy.. Why not add neon, strobes, and an MP3 output.. hell use it for the new Korean Missile Defense system..

You then state a customer took my controller off.. and installed yours.. so you claim its better yet share no proof.. ohh where in the internet can that thread be..

What car do you race?

Whens the last time it was raced?

What is your tuning experience?

How many cars have you tuned using an injection system?

What National records have been set using your system? What events have been won? I mean with thousands of "kits".. compared to my meesly 1500.. you would think the exposure would be there.

Alkycontrol

10-4.. if its close to rich, then its not tuned

This is why I dont sell kits to cars that cannot be tuned.. unlike someone else.. cuase I dont want to be associated with the loss of power when my system was installed. How else can I guarantee success.

Matter of fact, this is why I didnt offer kits for SRT4's.. until now that AEM has released the standalone.. and my first SRT4 kit shipped a few days ago.. guess who's tuning it.. AMS Should see the mess at SRT forums coolingmist has created.. poor guys..

Its all in the tuning.. but only someone who races using this kind of setup would know this. And come to realize all cars are different.. and find ways around each one..

Not sell a hi-tech windshield washer system.

Cheers

coolingmist

Im not going to argue with you anymore. you cant justify your controller on its merrits so you have to attack me. For the record, the one guy that purchased our controller to replace yours did so because your controller quit working at 26 psi and he blew up his engine.

And yes, our controller can handle 30 amps it was designed to. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. If you dont believe me, buy a controller and test it for your self.

Im more than happy for customers to compare the kits and make a decision for themselves. We like to innovate our controller. We could have built a cheap analog controller or copied snow, but we decided to do our own thing. "flashy" has nothing to do with it.

You lost all respect with the comment about our controller not handling 30 amps.

David

Alkycontrol

Where are the air fuel charts documenting how superior the controller is?

I would supposse you would show how the controller majically fixed the air fuel?

Ohh thats rite.. air fuel.. dont worry bout that.

Alkycontrol

So no racing experience?

Or tuning experience?

Or design experience?

But lots of sales experience

PS.. the controller didnt fail on him.. speaking of failures.. sold any Buick systems? Being a vendor on turbobuicks.com.. Have never seen a post where someone yielded any performance gain..

coolingmist

he said that your controllerl failed on him and he also said that his car runs faster than ever with our controller.

You seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder.

Alkycontrol

Since you seem quick to respond and are very confident on your claims.. please list heat sink surface area and type of device used for drive that handles 30 amps.

Hexfet, mosfet, IGBT, UJT, etc?? What material is used for heatsink? Type of alloy?

These are simple engineering questions. Well they are for me.

Here's your chance to shine.


reguards..

Mr Chip

coolingmist

why do I have to tell you anything? We put our specs out last october. we stand by them. I dont have to prove anything to you, nor to I have to report to you.

Alkycontrol

Dont mean to give advice on a competitors product, but since the question wasnt answered..

Chip your looking for is a LM2917. Type that in a search engine. You'll need to figure out what CYL a Rotary is . Frequency to Voltage converter.

HTH

PS.. why you do this.. dunno..

Alkycontrol

You make claims calling me a liar.. since you were upset when I questioned the claim..

Honest person would have provided the correct data. But I know you didnt design it, since its obvious you dont have any EE experience.

Ohh well.. thought i'd learn something new today.. more things change, the more the stay the same. Wish you continued success with your endeavors..

Maybe you should go to EFI school and learn tuning instead of web design..

Indian

iTrader: (1)

Guys, i don't mean to butt in but I must say i was very intriged by this thread, expecially for the fact that I am in the market for a "kit". I am pleased to know they are so much knowledgable people on this forum. It makes me feel safe when I ask for advice, but PLEASE PLEASE don'tt start bashing each other guys. You guys have so much people who are learnig from you both or three or four guys, and it would be ashame for an admin to come in here and close this useful thread. Please try and settle this professionally so that your customers and potential customers will have respect for you all.

Regards, Keith

Indian

iTrader: (1)

hey, I don't know if this will help you guys who wanna know more but I found this forum:
http://waterinjection.forumup.com/ab...injection.html

also found this too, a very good informative read:
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/alcohol.html

Hope I didn't offend anyone with these links

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

Yep, I already looked it and a few others up. Thanks.

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

I do have a question for you though....

My rationale behind the Coolingmist kit is thus: Everything I read says you want the alcohol/water in direct relation to the amount of fuel being added. If on the FD we had, say, a MAF sensor we could certainly use that to determine how much to add. (since fuel is in direct relation to airflow on that type of EFI system) Since we have a speed-density system, there is no single input that will tell us how much air (or fuel) is entering the motor. So we can check for a single output. Of course the only good output to use is either from the injector drivers themselves or a duty cycle output, and since we have staged injectors on the FD and no duty cycle output there's nothing useful there either.

So we need to recreate a second speed-density system to be able to calculate the alcohol/water needs for the motor to achieve the goal of a direct relationship between the two. The Coolingmist kit, since it has dual input capability will be able to operate based on a true 2D map in the same manner as the fueling map, will be able to keep the direct relationship I want.

As best I can understand, your system only works off a single input, and has an adjustable ramp up algorithm. So I can turn it on at a particular boost level using the map sensor, but my 4000 rpm/10psi needs are vastly different from my 8000 rpm/10psi needs. If I get on and off the throttle at 4k and then do the same at 8k each while making 10psi of boost I wouldn't have the proper amount of aux injection with such a system.

Of course it all depends on application, and since I have a speed density fueling system on a car that I want to run on a road course (lots of on/off throttle and boost all over the rev range) there are constraints that don't exist on alot of other cars. I'm only asking about my car and my application though, so I want you to explain how your system would work there.

enzo250

coolingmist,

your attitude really sucks... Your acting very unprofessional and childish.

You make remarks like 1500 kits isn't anything to brag about yet where are your customers?
How many kits have you sold? Your in business to design kits right? this is what you said, so where is your data, r&d, dyno sheets, etc, etc. You dont' have to do this yourself BUT as a designer you have to have r&d vehicles. If your not doing it give the first batch of kits away for free for test purposes so you can collect data and improve your kits to suit.

As alkycontrol stated if you sold so many kits you'd figure you would hear about them somewhere.

Now back to the topic of this thread.
What are the best kits.

Well if you wanted a simple to install complete kit for most DIY's i would say AlkyControl's kit.

If money was no object then a custom kit as i'm doing right now on a pair of 1600hp marine engines would be the way to go. I'm using my ecu to completely control injection, flow meters for fail safe operation(if no flow motor will run in limp mode), custom shurflo pumps, etc...

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

This thread doesn't need any more of above replies continuing to make this childish and a good thread gone bad, then useless, then closed. GooRoo's question was excellent and is what this thread should be about. ...relevent to rotary!

BDC

Finished installing the Alkycontrol hardware today. I still have the fuel cell vent part to take care of and am unsure of the best way to do it. Any input? I was considering a -4AN hose w/ a bulkead fitting to a breather filter on the recess of the filler cap for the gas tank on the passenger rear quarter.

Page 3 of the pics: http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/BDC/AlkyControl/?g2_page=3

B

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

I had an idea of using the Canadian headlight washer kit to spray the intercooler and/or as the storage tank for the water/methonol injection with maybe a Pivot Water Spray Controller. Has anyone looked in to those ideas?

http://www.takakaira.co.jp/asp/templ...MmIjJjegFhdkGf

BDC

My buddy Eric and I built a little rinkydink system and did that on my car about 8 years ago. It's marginally effective and kinda cool to look at, too.

B