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Water Injection What Is The Best Kit

Old 09-27-06, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ScuttleRX
Ive recently been looking for an ignition upgrade, and I stumbled across this...

http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fdignition.html

It says one of the additional features is a dedicated tachometer output, would this be in a 0-5V format, I was wondering whether it could be used with the varicool for an rpm input?
This is exactly what I'm trying to do. (get a 5V rpm signal to the controller) I have a chip setup to convert the pulses from the rpm trigger to a 0-5V input on a scale of 0-10000 rpm.

I contacted the coolingmist people a while ago and they said if I could get a 0-5V in then they can get me a new version of the flash that does a real 2D map, just like the fuel map on a PFC. I was planning on taking the fuel map, converting it to absolute numbers, multiplying it by the percentage water/meth I want to run, rescaling it to fit the map in the coolingmist controller and using that as a custom map. That would get my water/meth directly proportional to my fuel.

Of course if you have a ECU capable of a injector duty 0-5V output, then you don't need to go through the hassle, just use that. As far as I know that's not possible with the PFC/Datalogit at this time.
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Old 09-27-06, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GooRoo
This is exactly what I'm trying to do. (get a 5V rpm signal to the controller) I have a chip setup to convert the pulses from the rpm trigger to a 0-5V input on a scale of 0-10000 rpm.

I contacted the coolingmist people a while ago and they said if I could get a 0-5V in then they can get me a new version of the flash that does a real 2D map, just like the fuel map on a PFC. I was planning on taking the fuel map, converting it to absolute numbers, multiplying it by the percentage water/meth I want to run, rescaling it to fit the map in the coolingmist controller and using that as a custom map. That would get my water/meth directly proportional to my fuel.

Of course if you have a ECU capable of a injector duty 0-5V output, then you don't need to go through the hassle, just use that. As far as I know that's not possible with the PFC/Datalogit at this time.
FYI, I know this is really messed up...But if we had the time and thought there was a market for it we could connect our controller directly to the PFC (you could not attach the PFC COMMANDER at this time). The controller could read all the values on the power FC and adjust based on any of the inputs (or any combination) of inputs that the power FC is reading and reporting.

The key word is "IF" because we would need to decypher the data that is coming out of the serial port on the PFC. If anyone has "cracked" the PFC and you get us the data outpuft format it would be fairly easy to do.

since there is datalog software and a datalogger from another company for the power FC, its possible to do this. The problem is the time it would take us to do this would make it not very cost effective. We do have a Power FC on our project car, so who knows, maybe someday we will play with this.

Anyone with any input feel free to PM us, we love to play with new ideas.
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Old 09-27-06, 06:23 PM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by coolingmist
FYI, I know this is really messed up...But if we had the time and thought there was a market for it we could connect our controller directly to the PFC (you could not attach the PFC COMMANDER at this time). The controller could read all the values on the power FC and adjust based on any of the inputs (or any combination) of inputs that the power FC is reading and reporting.

The key word is "IF" because we would need to decypher the data that is coming out of the serial port on the PFC. If anyone has "cracked" the PFC and you get us the data outpuft format it would be fairly easy to do.

since there is datalog software and a datalogger from another company for the power FC, its possible to do this. The problem is the time it would take us to do this would make it not very cost effective. We do have a Power FC on our project car, so who knows, maybe someday we will play with this.

Anyone with any input feel free to PM us, we love to play with new ideas.
I think there's actually 2 people who have 'cracked' the PFC protocol on this board. FastHatch is working on a replacement for FC Edit called FC Tune, and ky7 is working on a dashboard/gauge program for ICE applications called FCWatch.

My original feeling was that the serial connection may not be fast enough to respond in the car, so that's why I was making the end run with the signal to voltage converter. If it is, then even better. I'd rather just tell the cooling mist controller to input 10% of the fuel above 7psi of boost and be done with it.

It would also be more interesting if they are aware of each other, since then you could have the computer inject more fuel or retard spark if there's an issue with the aux injection system (water/meth out or no pressure) but I was trying to start simple and work my way up.
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Old 09-27-06, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GooRoo
I think there's actually 2 people who have 'cracked' the PFC protocol on this board. FastHatch is working on a replacement for FC Edit called FC Tune, and ky7 is working on a dashboard/gauge program for ICE applications called FCWatch.

My original feeling was that the serial connection may not be fast enough to respond in the car, so that's why I was making the end run with the signal to voltage converter. If it is, then even better. I'd rather just tell the cooling mist controller to input 10% of the fuel above 7psi of boost and be done with it.

It would also be more interesting if they are aware of each other, since then you could have the computer inject more fuel or retard spark if there's an issue with the aux injection system (water/meth out or no pressure) but I was trying to start simple and work my way up.
I would bet serial comms would be plenty fast enough. The idea would be to configure the system respond to situations PRIOR to being a code red situation. Once the data is transmitted to our controller the response is as instant as you can hope for.

I could hook our pocket PC up to the PFC and listen and then compare the binary to the actual readings. Its a long and tiring process


D.
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Old 09-27-06, 06:51 PM
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Well, im planning to run 2 systems, one pre-turbo, one post. I wanted the rpm input for the pre-turbo setup.

As I have the twin turbos still, I wanted a way of making sure that the secondary turbo would not be sprayed when it isnt spinning, if I had rpm I was hoping to be able to set it up so it started spraying at around 4300-4500 rpm and be set up to adjust flow according to boost.

Im planning on using small injectors on the pre-turbo side (2 x 0.75 one for each turbo, although im exploring the option of an injector that mixs with air to give as much atomisation as possible), so ratios to fuel shouldnt come into play. Would there be a way of setting it up so the curve was solely reliant on boost, but would only be 'on' after 4300 rpm and 'off' before?

On the post turbo side I would go down the MAF/TPS against Boost as you recommended earlier, currently thinking about using two 6gph nozzles at different points along the tract (both on same map/pump, just using 2 opposed to 1 to give a better atomisation), this would give me up to 30% water to fuel ratio at 1 bar boost, and probably about 20-25 at 1.2-1.3bar which is what im hoping to map it up to. Might be more than I need but my line of thinking is I can adjust with the varicool and if im able to dial in extra and pull out some fuel I can. Wouldnt be ruling out a meth mix further down the line but going to start with water.
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Old 09-27-06, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ScuttleRX
Im planning on using small injectors on the pre-turbo side (2 x 0.75 one for each turbo, although im exploring the option of an injector that mixs with air to give as much atomisation as possible), so ratios to fuel shouldnt come into play. Would there be a way of setting it up so the curve was solely reliant on boost, but would only be 'on' after 4300 rpm and 'off' before?
it comes down to converting RPM to a 0-5V input. Our commander kit will be able to start injection, stop injection, add to the duty cycle, subtract from the duty cycle very easily.

If you had a tach to voltage converter, yes you can make it start and stop based on RPM. It would require our commander kit as all corrections will be done by the pocket PC.

David
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Old 09-27-06, 07:02 PM
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Cheers David, would it need the commander or could you set it up with a laptop pc

havent really read up about your commander set-up yet only the varicool

(sorry behind a work filter at the moment and can only access a few sites, your shop isnt one of them, but luckily here is )
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Old 09-27-06, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ScuttleRX
Cheers David, would it need the commander or could you set it up with a laptop pc

havent really read up about your commander set-up yet only the varicool

(sorry behind a work filter at the moment and can only access a few sites, your shop isnt one of them, but luckily here is )

The commander is an attachment to the vari-cool.

yes its "possible" to have laptop software to do this, but I would have to write it. it took me 3 months writing code 7 days a week to do the pocket pc commander software. We have free basic laptop software, but it doesnt have this type of functionality. I could add this functionality very fast TODAY to the pocket pc.

also, its important to note, the lap top would have to be connected at all times for THIS functionality since the controller is not really aware of the laptop/pocket pc. Thats why the commander/pocket pc unit is so convenient, its so small you connect it to your dash and get all the read outs and it can make critical decisions as well.

D.
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Old 09-27-06, 07:30 PM
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See what your saying David, definately wouldnt be able to have the laptop connected at all times!

Just found your description earlier in thread, datalogging would be very handy aswell.

This maybe a silly question but does the pocket pc still retain its normal functions? and can the software run in the background...was just thinking it would double up as a good sat nav system with a gps attached

Was also thinking it may not be necessary to have rpm as on or off, as long as the amount injected at max rpm/boost was not too much it wouldnt be a problem, in fact it may work out better.

Im quite set on the idea of a commander now though if the budget allows, whats the retail for a full kit with varicool and commander? I have one of your kits already so would just need a few extra bits for the post-turbo side, and use the new kit for pre
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Old 09-27-06, 07:37 PM
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yes the datalogging is really cool. The pocket pc does retain all normal functions. we recommend you get a SD card if you want to run GPS or install other programs. This will keep the memory on the pocket pc free. Remember there is limited storage space, but the SD cards are cheap

commander packs are below. They contain the commander (pocket pc) all cables, chargers, etc. Includes our new controller, dash/windshield mount system. You get a choice between the intake sensor or the EGT converter. The EGT converter does raise the price. You will still need a K series thermocoupler for the converter to read if you want the EGT option (if you dont have that we sell those as well).

Price is $599.95, the converter adds an additional $75 if you want the EGT functionality. It will work perfectly on your current kit. You will have the Version 3 controller, so when we write the functionality to start or stop, add to dutycylce, correct based on input...you will be able to download the software and upgrade free of charge as your controller has the flash already.


David



http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmai...commanderpack1
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Old 09-27-06, 07:55 PM
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No I havent got one of the controller kits, I brought it about 18 months im on the old school boost switch kit Will need a varicool for this kit (shouldnt need commander for this one), plus a whole new kit with another varicool and possibly commander.

My original plan was a rice-racing kit for the pre-turbo side plus one of yours for post, but turned out rice kit isnt ideal for twins.

cant see a way of having it all it one kit plus id rather have seperate pumps to keep the pressure up for the pre-turbo side, and obviously will need seperate mapping.

Quite optimistic, having 2 complete seperate systems will be handy as i'll be able to isolate each one to see what effects their having
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Old 09-27-06, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ScuttleRX
No I havent got one of the controller kits, I brought it about 18 months im on the old school boost switch kit Will need a varicool for this kit (shouldnt need commander for this one), plus a whole new kit with another varicool and possibly commander.

My original plan was a rice-racing kit for the pre-turbo side plus one of yours for post, but turned out rice kit isnt ideal for twins.

cant see a way of having it all it one kit plus id rather have seperate pumps to keep the pressure up for the pre-turbo side, and obviously will need seperate mapping.

Quite optimistic, having 2 complete seperate systems will be handy as i'll be able to isolate each one to see what effects their having
PMing you .
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Old 09-27-06, 08:01 PM
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so what exactly does the egt functionality do? Does it spray more to keep your egt's at a set temp?
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Old 09-27-06, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hondahater
so what exactly does the egt functionality do? Does it spray more to keep your egt's at a set temp?

There are several options.

Option 1 is a vari-cool stage II kit (like yours) that gets our EGT Converter. It will allow your controller to run off of EGT and boost instead of just boost. For example, the min/max ***** will relate to EGT instead of boost. 0-2000 F for each. For example, set the min to 700 and max to 1500, it will not turn on until you hit 700F, and as it gets HIGHER it sprays more. Also, you have to be in boost so it doesn't poor meth/water in your engine at idle.

With the commander kit it will also display EGT (and boost), pump duty cycle, time, let you program the controller and datalog.

Hope that makes sense.

Last edited by coolingmist; 09-27-06 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 09-27-06, 08:09 PM
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oh thats cool! What do you suggest most? Strictly boost or going this route basted more on egts? Also I'm guessing the **** numbers are 1x100 so for example 1=100 2=200 etc... Thanks for the reply
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Old 09-27-06, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hondahater
oh thats cool! What do you suggest most? Strictly boost or going this route basted more on egts? Also I'm guessing the **** numbers are 1x100 so for example 1=100 2=200 etc... Thanks for the reply
Nah, the ***** are multiplied by roughly 67. So 15=1000F, 30=2000F.

The EGT option works great for alot of situations. Its really good for Diesel Trucks and racers that need to keep EGTs down.

David
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Old 09-27-06, 08:21 PM
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thanks, I really gotta get a pocket pc to utilize the cool features. *goes searching for one* thanks!
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Old 09-27-06, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hondahater
thanks, I really gotta get a pocket pc to utilize the cool features. *goes searching for one* thanks!

If you want that functionality, call us or EMAIL us. We sell the pocket PC and software, cables, etc.

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Old 09-27-06, 08:25 PM
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cool, I'll give you guys a call tomorrow. What exactly would you sell the pocket pc and software for?
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Old 09-27-06, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hondahater
cool, I'll give you guys a call tomorrow. What exactly would you sell the pocket pc and software for?

I really dis-like posting prices in these threads (although I already have). Please contact us Via-Email at [email protected] or call us tomorrow and we can discuss.

Thanks!
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Old 09-27-06, 09:15 PM
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yeah no problem. Thanks.
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Old 05-17-07, 01:24 PM
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Sard have got a water spray cooling kit available which comes with a full kit that you mount to either the intercooler or radiator to keep temps down - price is VERY GOOD too!!!!
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Old 05-17-07, 01:28 PM
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^has nothing to do with the topic discussed here.
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