how many hp to kill new Z06????
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From: Jefferson, OR
to the contrary to what u posted i actually do have dragr acing experience and thus know the importance of gettign off the line. HOWEVER we arent ******* talking about drag racing. we are talking street racing from what i can tell. havent said that i am assuming that its roll racing.
I'm not totally sure where you were trying to say with this sentence: "havent said that i am assuming that its roll racing.". I think your saying that you assumed it was a roll on? In that case it's even more about driver then before, but with more advantages going to the Z06 due to the gearing and torque to break the initial inertia. If the Z06 sits anywhere near his power band, the FD has to boost as much as possible to even get close to the beginning of his. Also, the farther they drive the warmer the FD's system will get and the more HP will be robbed. Now, I don't know if the FD is running ethanol or water injection, but either of those would help.
Rotary Enthusiast
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From: Jefferson, OR
I guess we will see, won't we? I am a huge RX-7 fan, love the FD3's, but this will be a closer race then you think. A Z06 Corvette, while domestic, is a force to reckoned with for just about any car out there. They can claim to start life with over 500HP at the engine and have an incredible get up and go. They only really weigh about 200lbs more then an FD (if that). The big part that gives them an edge is that the LS7 engine makes around the same torque as horse power, giving them really long gears and really hard pull on the top end.
To give you a little perspective, here is a video of some guys on the BMW forums that I was watching a while back. This video is of a BMW M6 vs a Z06:
BMW M6 vs Z06
Also, here is a good site to get a feel for just what kind of cars you are watching in that video:
M6 and Z06
Until you see a Z06 blow past you when your running 160 MPH, you don't really grasp how brutally fast they are.
To give you a little perspective, here is a video of some guys on the BMW forums that I was watching a while back. This video is of a BMW M6 vs a Z06:
BMW M6 vs Z06
Also, here is a good site to get a feel for just what kind of cars you are watching in that video:
M6 and Z06
Until you see a Z06 blow past you when your running 160 MPH, you don't really grasp how brutally fast they are.
The M6 is a luxury grand tourer not a lightweight sports car. It weighs around 3770 and gains topspeed slowly (It's a friggin grand luxury car with power like the bentley C-gt). It tops out at 332 kph around 210 mph which is alot high top end then the vette. It's a 7 speed auto and has 503 probably at the crank. Technically your contradicting yourself by even comparing these two cars. Why because your comparing a even power car that weighs 500LBS lighter and has about the same hp. Now the FD takes the Zo6's position in that race being a good 500lbs lighter then the z06 and thats curb weight for the FD... Most guys who run that much hp in the FD have alot of lightweight goodies. I've killed about 125-145 lbs of mine and I have my stock twins. You also forget the Fd's redline factor even though it might not be a six speed we can stretch and that's how I beat an E46 M3 (All I had was intake an Cb and an AST if you want to be picky). A normal 475 RWHP FD WILL MOP A STOCK Zo6. I've hear of guys beating them with the twins so forget about a 1.3 litre 475 rwhp street legal race car. You also have to realize when you are at that level in an FD your being surpassed probably in everything from suspension parts to the fuel pump. It's almost all high performance at that point.
I'm about Facts no guessing games and I assure you an M6 is hardly something to brag about.
My 2cents
I will agree though the Z06 a ****** fast car. I had the pleasure of running intoa procharged one and O man did he show me hahaha.
Here's how I look at it...
2600lb 475 RWHP (to the wheels just like you said) > Stock 3200lb 505 (assuming that's what it makes to the wheels not crank)
600lb and 25hp difference isn't going to do it. Camed stage III and nitrous Z06 you bet your ***! ~ 705 rwhp
Here's how I look at it...
2600lb 475 RWHP (to the wheels just like you said) > Stock 3200lb 505 (assuming that's what it makes to the wheels not crank)
600lb and 25hp difference isn't going to do it. Camed stage III and nitrous Z06 you bet your ***! ~ 705 rwhp
V8 + 100shot = mass power
More cylinders more power when it comes to nitrous anyways...
I'm hoping to get 360 Rwhp out of my twins when they're tuned and I'm fairly confident I can beat a C6 Z06 stock. I also have a custom front end am going to have about 350lbs killed off my stock wight. I have a 93 touring and the bose is out so I'm figuring when it's all done around 2450-2500. (I only weigh about 150) So I'm confident the other driver will be heavier then me
+ Race on a nice 1/2 of 1/4 tank lol.
Last edited by The Driver; May 31, 2007 at 03:09 PM.
Rotary Enthusiast
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From: Jefferson, OR
Are seriously kidding me?
The M6 is a luxury grand tourer not a lightweight sports car. It weighs around 3770 and gains topspeed slowly (It's a friggin grand luxury car with power like the bentley C-gt). It tops out at 332 kph around 210 mph which is alot high top end then the vette. It's a 7 speed auto and has 503 probably at the crank. Technically your contradicting yourself by even comparing these two cars. Why because your comparing a even power car that weighs 500LBS lighter and has about the same hp. Now the FD takes the Zo6's position in that race being a good 500lbs lighter then the z06 and thats curb weight for the FD... Most guys who run that much hp in the FD have alot of lightweight goodies. I've killed about 125-145 lbs of mine and I have my stock twins. You also forget the Fd's redline factor even though it might not be a six speed we can stretch and that's how I beat an E46 M3 (All I had was intake an Cb and an AST if you want to be picky). A normal 475 RWHP FD WILL MOP A STOCK Zo6. I've hear of guys beating them with the twins so forget about a 1.3 litre 475 rwhp street legal race car. You also have to realize when you are at that level in an FD your being surpassed probably in everything from suspension parts to the fuel pump. It's almost all high performance at that point.
I'm about Facts no guessing games and I assure you an M6 is hardly something to brag about.
My 2cents
The M6 is a luxury grand tourer not a lightweight sports car. It weighs around 3770 and gains topspeed slowly (It's a friggin grand luxury car with power like the bentley C-gt). It tops out at 332 kph around 210 mph which is alot high top end then the vette. It's a 7 speed auto and has 503 probably at the crank. Technically your contradicting yourself by even comparing these two cars. Why because your comparing a even power car that weighs 500LBS lighter and has about the same hp. Now the FD takes the Zo6's position in that race being a good 500lbs lighter then the z06 and thats curb weight for the FD... Most guys who run that much hp in the FD have alot of lightweight goodies. I've killed about 125-145 lbs of mine and I have my stock twins. You also forget the Fd's redline factor even though it might not be a six speed we can stretch and that's how I beat an E46 M3 (All I had was intake an Cb and an AST if you want to be picky). A normal 475 RWHP FD WILL MOP A STOCK Zo6. I've hear of guys beating them with the twins so forget about a 1.3 litre 475 rwhp street legal race car. You also have to realize when you are at that level in an FD your being surpassed probably in everything from suspension parts to the fuel pump. It's almost all high performance at that point.
I'm about Facts no guessing games and I assure you an M6 is hardly something to brag about.
My 2cents
Your assessment is based off of a power to weight estimate. Not realistic performance numbers. Under those rules, you are not accounting for waisted energies, traction, or the difference in torque. I think it's safe to say that the FD will be close to the Z06 when they are moving between 50-100 MPH, but who knows how it will start. It is more then likely the Z06 will walk the RX-7 after the 100MPH mark due to gearing, and we know it will not shift as often. According to weight, the FD should have an easier time breaking it's inertia. Likewise, the Z06 has more torque which means the wheels receive more rotational force to start them moving, in turn breaking it's inertia.
I am not saying that the Z06 will win, all I'm saying is that this is a lot closer race then people would like to admit. Also, in the end, this thread was about how much "power" is needed to beat a Z06, not how much weight reduction, suspension, tires, aerodynamics, and driving. If we were to factor a stock, 14 year old RX-7, what power would it take to beat a brand new 505 horse power sports car? The answer is a lot more then 500.
In the end I am rooting for the rotary. It is always awesome to see a 1.3 liter destroy something 6 times it's size. Just remember though, you can't gloat to much because this is a dead stock car facing off against a fully built FD. We don't like it when H22 turbo civics gloat about beating a bone stock FD.
Rotary Enthusiast
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From: Jefferson, OR
I'm down to throw money. I'm all facts so unless you got a hundred shot hidden I'm game...
V8 + 100shot = mass power
More cylinders more power when it comes to nitrous anyways...
I'm hoping to get 360 Rwhp out of my twins when they're tuned and I'm fairly confident I can beat a C6 Z06 stock. I also have a custom front end am going to have about 350lbs killed off my stock wight. I have a 93 touring and the bose is out so I'm figuring when it's all done around 2450-2500. (I only weigh about 150) So I'm confident the other driver will be heavier then me + Race on a nice 1/2 of 1/4 tank lol.
V8 + 100shot = mass power
More cylinders more power when it comes to nitrous anyways...
I'm hoping to get 360 Rwhp out of my twins when they're tuned and I'm fairly confident I can beat a C6 Z06 stock. I also have a custom front end am going to have about 350lbs killed off my stock wight. I have a 93 touring and the bose is out so I'm figuring when it's all done around 2450-2500. (I only weigh about 150) So I'm confident the other driver will be heavier then me
+ Race on a nice 1/2 of 1/4 tank lol.
First of all, the M6 is an incredibly quick car in a roll on or at a dead rest. I have seen them and know people who run their stock M6's in the low 12's (exactly as they come from a dealer). Your car would be destroyed.
Your assessment is based off of a power to weight estimate. Not realistic performance numbers. Under those rules, you are not accounting for waisted energies, traction, or the difference in torque. I think it's safe to say that the FD will be close to the Z06 when they are moving between 50-100 MPH, but who knows how it will start. It is more then likely the Z06 will walk the RX-7 after the 100MPH mark due to gearing, and we know it will not shift as often. According to weight, the FD should have an easier time breaking it's inertia. Likewise, the Z06 has more torque which means the wheels receive more rotational force to start them moving, in turn breaking it's inertia.
I am not saying that the Z06 will win, all I'm saying is that this is a lot closer race then people would like to admit. Also, in the end, this thread was about how much "power" is needed to beat a Z06, not how much weight reduction, suspension, tires, aerodynamics, and driving. If we were to factor a stock, 14 year old RX-7, what power would it take to beat a brand new 505 horse power sports car? The answer is a lot more then 500.
In the end I am rooting for the rotary. It is always awesome to see a 1.3 liter destroy something 6 times it's size. Just remember though, you can't gloat to much because this is a dead stock car facing off against a fully built FD. We don't like it when H22 turbo civics gloat about beating a bone stock FD.
Your assessment is based off of a power to weight estimate. Not realistic performance numbers. Under those rules, you are not accounting for waisted energies, traction, or the difference in torque. I think it's safe to say that the FD will be close to the Z06 when they are moving between 50-100 MPH, but who knows how it will start. It is more then likely the Z06 will walk the RX-7 after the 100MPH mark due to gearing, and we know it will not shift as often. According to weight, the FD should have an easier time breaking it's inertia. Likewise, the Z06 has more torque which means the wheels receive more rotational force to start them moving, in turn breaking it's inertia.
I am not saying that the Z06 will win, all I'm saying is that this is a lot closer race then people would like to admit. Also, in the end, this thread was about how much "power" is needed to beat a Z06, not how much weight reduction, suspension, tires, aerodynamics, and driving. If we were to factor a stock, 14 year old RX-7, what power would it take to beat a brand new 505 horse power sports car? The answer is a lot more then 500.
In the end I am rooting for the rotary. It is always awesome to see a 1.3 liter destroy something 6 times it's size. Just remember though, you can't gloat to much because this is a dead stock car facing off against a fully built FD. We don't like it when H22 turbo civics gloat about beating a bone stock FD.
but I'll stick to rotors)The M6 have ever is a very fast car indeed. Low 12's definetly but still very heavy however if you want to talk about the M6 more please do join www.exotixboard.com my friend and owner of the board has a black M6.
Fyi ~ I have no problems with anycar beating an FD wether it's a honda or Vette as long as it's worked enough and done up right. A fast car is a fast car no matter what it is.
I still do think that weight plays a big factor in top-end. The Gearing on the FD is shorter then the Vette's however I was under the impression that the gearing was changed to atleast from my stand point. If I have 475hp I'm redoing the gearing for topend no doubt.
I have been proven wrong though with the power to weight in top end. If you join exotixboard ~ look up SLR vs SL65 AMG. It's a top-end race in dubai. It's absolutley amazing how fast they are going but the SL65 gets him by a hair at the end.
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From: Jefferson, OR
Yes, I'm talking about from a roll 50 - 180 maybe ome where around that. Off the line the Z06 would tear almost any FD off the line hands down. (Cept Ls7 FD but I'll stick to rotors)
The M6 have ever is a very fast car indeed. Low 12's definetly but still very heavy however if you want to talk about the M6 more please do join www.exotixboard.com my friend and owner of the board has a black M6.
Fyi ~ I have no problems with anycar beating an FD wether it's a honda or Vette as long as it's worked enough and done up right. A fast car is a fast car no matter what it is.
I still do think that weight plays a big factor in top-end. The Gearing on the FD is shorter then the Vette's however I was under the impression that the gearing was changed to atleast from my stand point. If I have 475hp I'm redoing the gearing for topend no doubt.
I have been proven wrong though with the power to weight in top end. If you join exotixboard ~ look up SLR vs SL65 AMG. It's a top-end race in dubai. It's absolutley amazing how fast they are going but the SL65 gets him by a hair at the end.
but I'll stick to rotors)The M6 have ever is a very fast car indeed. Low 12's definetly but still very heavy however if you want to talk about the M6 more please do join www.exotixboard.com my friend and owner of the board has a black M6.
Fyi ~ I have no problems with anycar beating an FD wether it's a honda or Vette as long as it's worked enough and done up right. A fast car is a fast car no matter what it is.
I still do think that weight plays a big factor in top-end. The Gearing on the FD is shorter then the Vette's however I was under the impression that the gearing was changed to atleast from my stand point. If I have 475hp I'm redoing the gearing for topend no doubt.
I have been proven wrong though with the power to weight in top end. If you join exotixboard ~ look up SLR vs SL65 AMG. It's a top-end race in dubai. It's absolutley amazing how fast they are going but the SL65 gets him by a hair at the end.
Yeah, next year when I get more parking I want to build an FD3 for top end running. My goal is to start it next year and get it down to speed week on the flats to see what I can get with a stock FD transmission and just upping the diff gearing... either that or I'll run a Z32 300zx. Either one should be good high speed platforms as long as I can keep the air out from under them. I know the Z32 I had was perfectly stable at 160ish and others that I have seen/met have gotten well over 200MPH without any aero mods other then belly pans.
Cool, I'll have to do that.
Yeah, next year when I get more parking I want to build an FD3 for top end running. My goal is to start it next year and get it down to speed week on the flats to see what I can get with a stock FD transmission and just upping the diff gearing... either that or I'll run a Z32 300zx. Either one should be good high speed platforms as long as I can keep the air out from under them. I know the Z32 I had was perfectly stable at 160ish and others that I have seen/met have gotten well over 200MPH without any aero mods other then belly pans.
Yeah, next year when I get more parking I want to build an FD3 for top end running. My goal is to start it next year and get it down to speed week on the flats to see what I can get with a stock FD transmission and just upping the diff gearing... either that or I'll run a Z32 300zx. Either one should be good high speed platforms as long as I can keep the air out from under them. I know the Z32 I had was perfectly stable at 160ish and others that I have seen/met have gotten well over 200MPH without any aero mods other then belly pans.
Street racing is drag racing more often then not. Roll ons are not really races since there is no way to keep one car from jumping the other, they are more like a run down.
I'm not totally sure where you were trying to say with this sentence: "havent said that i am assuming that its roll racing.". I think your saying that you assumed it was a roll on? In that case it's even more about driver then before, but with more advantages going to the Z06 due to the gearing and torque to break the initial inertia. If the Z06 sits anywhere near his power band, the FD has to boost as much as possible to even get close to the beginning of his. Also, the farther they drive the warmer the FD's system will get and the more HP will be robbed. Now, I don't know if the FD is running ethanol or water injection, but either of those would help.
I'm not totally sure where you were trying to say with this sentence: "havent said that i am assuming that its roll racing.". I think your saying that you assumed it was a roll on? In that case it's even more about driver then before, but with more advantages going to the Z06 due to the gearing and torque to break the initial inertia. If the Z06 sits anywhere near his power band, the FD has to boost as much as possible to even get close to the beginning of his. Also, the farther they drive the warmer the FD's system will get and the more HP will be robbed. Now, I don't know if the FD is running ethanol or water injection, but either of those would help.
Your assessment is based off of a power to weight estimate. Not realistic performance numbers. Under those rules, you are not accounting for waisted energies, traction, or the difference in torque. I think it's safe to say that the FD will be close to the Z06 when they are moving between 50-100 MPH, but who knows how it will start. It is more then likely the Z06 will walk the RX-7 after the 100MPH mark due to gearing, and we know it will not shift as often. According to weight, the FD should have an easier time breaking it's inertia. Likewise, the Z06 has more torque which means the wheels receive more rotational force to start them moving, in turn breaking it's inertia.
WTF? The RX-7 is lighter than the Z06 why would a 14 year old RX-7 need more power than the Z06 to beat the heavier Z06 with less power?
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From: CT
He who smokes bitches
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From: El Dorado County
Without proof it's just one side arguing with the other.
I do not believe dark phantom's fd will beat a z06 until i see a vid or at least a description of the actual race.
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From: CT
this is what the kills section is. if u dont like it well then dont come here
well thats cause ur an idiot.
well thats cause ur an idiot.
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From: Ponte Vedra, FL
Who said any FD was slow? You guys let your prejudice of manufacturers cloud your common sense. You are saying that a car MAY be able to pull 10s (depending on driver, traction, and power curve), while the Z06 has been proven to pull mid 11's all day long. A difference of .5 seconds at those speeds can happen off a light or a spun tire. Also, the weight difference isn't much, the Z06 curbs in at 3150-3200, but you don't know what it's actual weight is.
I'm guessing from a lot of these responses that not many people arguing in this thread spend much time at the local drag strip. Once you break into the 12's and 11's it's far more of a drivers game then anything else. There are a few things to consider:
Where will they be racing? On a street the Z06 will have a little advantage from the extra weight and extra torque to fix tiny mistakes. The FD needs to get into boost to pull hard, but too much power will just blow the tires off on a bald back country road.
When will they be racing? The ambient temp will cause the FD driver far more trouble then the Z06 driver due to the engine temp we already deal with and IC temp. The Z06 is only going to lose a couple HP even when it gets warmer.
What fuel will they be running? The Z06 can fill up at any pump and make the numbers it claims, most high power FDs dyno runs are done with additives or race fuel.
How far is the race? A Z06 will eat the FD alive on the top end due to gear ratios and an extra gear.
The list goes on and on.
I'm guessing from a lot of these responses that not many people arguing in this thread spend much time at the local drag strip. Once you break into the 12's and 11's it's far more of a drivers game then anything else. There are a few things to consider:
Where will they be racing? On a street the Z06 will have a little advantage from the extra weight and extra torque to fix tiny mistakes. The FD needs to get into boost to pull hard, but too much power will just blow the tires off on a bald back country road.
When will they be racing? The ambient temp will cause the FD driver far more trouble then the Z06 driver due to the engine temp we already deal with and IC temp. The Z06 is only going to lose a couple HP even when it gets warmer.
What fuel will they be running? The Z06 can fill up at any pump and make the numbers it claims, most high power FDs dyno runs are done with additives or race fuel.
How far is the race? A Z06 will eat the FD alive on the top end due to gear ratios and an extra gear.
The list goes on and on.
And, a turbo car has an advantage on a roll, not a disadvantage, due to cool air being rammed into the intercooler dropping the intake charge.
BTW, I'm the guy that Matty mentioned. I ran new C6 ZO6 3 times from a 70 - 130 mph roll. I pulled him by ~ 2 cars each time (and I had the wife with me). It was hardly a "whipping", but I still pulled the guy....consistently.
-Matt
