BDC

If you've never operated a business, then you have no idea what I'm talking about. I suspected as such. Those who have do understand and they do emphatically. Jason is one of those.

It's not about "taking sides". It's about facts. It's about character. In terms of how you're acting here, you're being an abusive, self-centered jerk, that is masking himself with the guise of having been "ripped off". On the facts side, I know what it's all about having spoken to him as well as having read what you've posted. Needless to say, Jason didn't rip you off. I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong; I think he did and he heard an earful of it from me. But, he in no way deserves the treatment you're giving him based upon the details of the "deal" you guys had. This is one of those situations where you need to take responsibility for your own self and the choices you made (you were by no means forced to deal with Jason). Quit calling him names and dragging his name through the mud. It's real easy for you to do here on a forum where you don't have to face anyone. That's why I called you an "Internet pitbull". It's a nice, comfortable, virtual world, free of personal responsibility. How convenient for everyone.

If you ultimately had a problem with what all happened, it would've been you threatening to sue him, but oddly enough the facts don't support the plausibility of that notion. I hope everyone else considers this.

B

sonix7

Check this out. I am little tired of people throwing around the word "business". First of all you have no idea what you are talking about. This is PERSONAL. Phil has chose to carry this personal vendetta out against me. There was never a business transaction. This guy begged me to do his parts. HE NEVER GAVE ME ANY MONEY TO PAY FOR ANYTHING. Go ahead and keep ignoring that. Who has asked Phil to show where he paid me for anything. ME, not some other claims? Phil is not getting **** from me. He has done far more damage to me than can ever be repaid. Who's going to repay me? WHERE"s the reciept's buddy. You are making claims and thats all your doing. Your story against mine. How come the only guys that are jumping on my **** are from Alabama. Phil we can do this buddy. I am sick of your personal attack on me. Do we need to settle this in person, because this is the only way I feel I am going to resolve this. I don't owe any of you ****!! **** Phil, we can step into a boxing ring if he has anything else to say. Keep talking. Until then Phil can spend his whole life as the internet bulldog. Your a *****. Why don't you come find me or least give me a call big man. All I have to say is **** you Phil, I do CF hobbie work, I don't own a business. Hope to meet you in person real soon Phil. Internet thugs. I am laughing everyday. Come get at me gentlemen. **** business this is very personal. **** Phil. Do something? You can sit here and talk all the **** you want about me being a scammer and me ripping you off, but bottomline is I am right here. You know where to find me if you want to do something about it. Peace.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Again, You need to read the whole thread before making assumptions... Brian.

You state, "Jason didn't rip you off", when its clear to everyone that he did. What part do you not understand?? What the parts that doesn't fit, or the door panels he said that was black when its was in fact tan?? And I've found the facts on the forum when he bought a can of vinyl paint and showed he painted couple of his own tan panels... or the facts I provided that he sold my CF panels that he had already covered and decided to sell them to someone else just before sending them to me... I guess in your principle, thats NOT ripping someone off??

If you don't want to read, just read my mocked story about the tail lights.. its located between your first post and the last one..

Regarding Lawsuit.. LOL! Again read this thread.. You think I was the first to make that threat??? Jesus, read the damn thread before you make that assumption.. because the fact provides, otherwise..

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

LOL! I guess you live in some fantasy word?? You need to go read this thread and what you have post before.. Geez, ******* retard!

BDC

Good for you.

I know the full story. I'm probably the only person who's both spoken to him (in person) and has read the many pages of slamming of 2nd grader conduct that you've posted. It'd be easy to not get the full story.

I don't have to do business with you. I can decline to do your car, engine, whatever it is you've got that I wish.

Yet another display of your character. I think you're upset that I stood up to you. It strikes me that you're not used to that. People like you are nothing more than cowards hiding with great effort behind the polished verneer of loud-mouthed belligerence and anger. I see right through it.

What you've said is patently ridiculous and it won't goad me into a fight. Nice try though.

B

BDC

Read it; every single bit of it yesterday early afternoon, friend. The difference between myself and the rest of your audience here is that I've spoken to Jason personally.

B

BDC

Here Herblenny, allow me to post this up for you, seeing as how you were "ripped off for $1k": http://www.judgejudy.com/home/home.asp

There. Now you've got no excuse.

B

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

BDC: Youve talked to Jason personally about this issue, but have you talked to Phil personally about it? I dont discount anything youve said, and agree with alot of your points, but it does seem that you are a bit one-sided on the issue as well. If you had met with Phil and heard this 1st hand from him, and never met Jason, would you be here sticking up for Phil instead? Its real easy to pick a side when you know someone personally. Ive spoken to Phil alot in PMs about this issue, and as you have read had also dealt with Jason. I stated my experiences, told my side, and now Im done.

Phil, personally I do think youre taking this overboard. While none of us here can really hear from each of you in person, just from the evidence posted, I do think you got shafted, reguardless of whether or not it was intentional.. but its over now, you know nothing more can come of this. I think you just need to let it go.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

LOL! Right, just as you call yourself professional, calling names, making assumptions without even talking to me and THINK, you know the story?? LOL!

Brian, I'm glad you stood up either for yourself or for Jason.. If you think Customers should sit back and think the seller/businessman have more rights, then you are absolutely WRONG! I think it just shows your ego as much as my right to complain about some ******* giving me excuses over 1.5 years, when I know as much as he does what it takes to get the job done.. I guess you can't quite see that do you???

And regarding your assumption that I'm a horrible customer to deal with, then you must not know me.. because Ive had zero problems with any other vendors and because of my dealing with many, they actually gave me MONEY to run the event.. So, before you make another assumption about me, get the facts straight..

And don't think too high about yourself either Brian, I know far more about you than you might think.. I've heard stories about your tuning and building engines.. And honestly, I don't need your help in anyways, hence I never called you.. But I do recall you calling me?? hmmm.. funny how you make it sound like I'm some "Pitbull" when I have every write to state what I need to state on this thread... almost like you are becoming a pitbull yourself??

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I'll admit that it might be bit overboard.. but again, thats what my personality is, when I get screwed, I want to make sure others dont and remember my situation and learn from it. I guess Brian Cain is right.. I'm like the Pitbull

rx7goomba

Hahha....this pretty much ruined any chances of anyone wanting to do business with you on here. Good job buddy

Funny how in is his earlier posts he contradicts alot of what he's claiming now. Get your story straight pal. Go back into hiding kid.

hus

I'm posting because not only do I consider Phil a friend but because what's wrong is wrong!

Brian, in Jason's last post he pretty much stated that he doesn't give a damn about anything business related and now wants to fight because it's personal. I would think that you would have much more to loose than Jason in this whole situation as the people on this forum and/or all RX-7 owners are your livelihood! I don't understand this. You say it's not about picking sides...ok, it's not...it's about standing up for what is right and you're obviously not. You're standing up for Jason because you thought he was a small business owner but he's already thrown that out the window by stating:


As I said before Phil and I are friends but even friends conduct business, with or without reciepts. If I ask Phil to do something for my car then business is being conducted...PERIOD!

What kinda crap is that!! Brian, I know you don't belive in this for your own "business" do you? If you tuned my car and it began fouling out plugs and dying all the time I would think you would WANT to fix it, right? Jason's statement here is pure crap.

Call it an Alabama thing all you want but the stuff Jason has pulled here is not the way to conduct buisness or personal matters.

Brian, whether you care or not I have to say that your statements on here about standing up for Jason because he's a small business guy bother's me because he's clearly wrong in this situation. I'm sure you have plenty of customers to not have to worry about us Alabama guys, or at least some of us, anyway

Jason, I'm not bashing you but I am bashing the way you conducted yourself. This is a **** poor way to conduct business, personal time, fun-time or whatever else you want to call it. Yeah, I'm defending Phil because I've heard his story personally and I've seen the pics and some of the parts and I can't believe you would do that someone else period but muchless in the same community (that being RX-7s). I wish you luck with future customers.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I forgot to ask... again... so, whatever happened when you talked to your lawyers?? So, now you want to battle it out like cave men?? LOL! You crack me up! Only child would say something like that... aren't you in the 30s with a child?? IS this how you want your child to grow up? Geez! Its just SAD!! How stupid are you??

Do one thing at a time and follow thru what you promise.. Go see your lawyer as you said before and deal with it! You got my address and send me the paperwork And Yes, I have reciept for **** I bought for you Again, there is a list of **** I bough somewhere on this thread... LOL!

Oh, And just so you know and others, there is no time limit on this ****. If I want to bring this thread back up as you never "Stepped up" to settle it, Ill bring it back up in a year.. ******* scammer think there is a time limit... its just makes me laugh!

fdeeznutz

I wouldn't consider it overboard. Phil got screwed and he's pissed. I would probably do the same thing. For anyone coming to sonix7's defense, didn't you look at the pictures of his work? Absolute garbage IMO. Painted door panels? That would have had my blood boiling by itself.

rx7goomba

DomFD3S

How many times are you going to say "F*ck Phil"? Do you really think saying "F*ck Phil" is going to get people to possibly side w/ you?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Just as Jason came on here and thanking those who backed him up, I'll say the same, "Thanks guys for backing me up and understanding why I'm doing this.."

But, I think some of you are missing the point here.. Its not all about the parts he ruined or he's denial of me NOT paying him (even though I gave him money thru paypal, bought NEW parts for his car, gave him tons of stock parts, etc).

I'm pissed because I've wasted over a year not able to finish my car and now I have to re-do what he has ruined! But mainly its the time, I can not get back.. Obviously some of the people who backed Jason don't quite understand that someone's time is more valueable than others... And his endless excuses.. God, It was like this looser high school kid I knew.. Geez, in the real world, in any business, you wouldn't last a bit if he acted the way he did..

BDC

Perhaps you should quote the number of times Phil has said the same sort of thing about Jason. It's many more than Jason's said.

B

charlies7

iTrader: (4)

Theres no point in getting the story from Phil when he already plastered it all over this board. His story is out there already. I think its hard for the person being accused to get his story out there especially when he's the suspected "bad guy." When the members on this board already have a bad imagine about you its hard to give your side when everything you say is shot down, just my .02 cents

Best of luck to everything and every party involved.

BDC

Hus, You raise some considerable, appreciable points and believe me I understand that I'm knowingly taking the unpopular position by attempting to defend Jason. It's not my intent to be mindless or jump on any particular bandwagon haphazardly, be it Jason's or Phil's. I'm trying to interject things that Jason himself hasn't said to help better fill the bigger picture here. So far, for all intents and purposes, it's been Phil's mouth. The epistemic question: How do we know Phil is telling the truth? After all, atleast on this forum and perhaps those of you locally have a better impression than I do, he acts like a completely immature and crass jerk, void of any better conduct, by way of how he talks to those that he either feels have wronged him (Jason) or those that are standing up to him (me). This I'll ask you: Please remember me from my past during the DaVinci AF61R turbo scam -- I took the unpopular position then as well because that company along with their cohorts were perpetrating a lie to the community that was costing people gobs of money by way of false advertisement. I took a hell of alot of abuse from people for that, but who in the end turned out to be the illegitimate ones? It's easy to know for the answer is in this very forum section.

This has nothing to do with Alabama. Infact, I like the place. Drove out there last year and did some work. Had a good time; wore myself out. Stayed over at Bryan's place. Had a good time meeting not only him but all the other guys (Kevin, Stephen, Mike, Richard). Everyone (especially Bryan) was class-act while I was there. Planning on coming back out this month to Mike's place.

This has to do with getting at the truth as well as stopping an abusive person like Phil from writing the way he does about someone else to the point that it potentially affects that person's business. He's trying the same junk with me in the SE section's tuning thread by way of attempting to sabotage it. I understand he's your friend, but you have to put that aside and not enable him to treat others the way he has. By the way, I don't recognize your screen name. Did I meet you last year?

There's more to the story here. I believe Jason is telling the truth. Consider this argument: he has no reason in the world to lie because he has nothing to gain and everything to lose. For nearly every business out there, especially small ones, this is generally the truth. It certainly is for mine. He has every reason to tell the truth about this deal, especially due to the fact that it was originally meant to help him with exposure of his service by way of Phil's car. It makes perfect sense. He loves his carbon fiber hobby and, atleast at the time, was interested in pursuing it to a greater degree; a degree enough to earn some money with it as a one-man, small business. Given the fact that Phil's car is his one, single, golden opportunity to show off his work (and we all here know that Phil's car's project is being looked at with a level of anticipation), why would he go out of his way to screw him around? No, no, no. It makes no sense for him to do that because it's exactly what he wasn't trying to do. Couple this with the fact that several other people have expressed their satisfaction with Jason's work and you're left (well, atleast I am) scratching your head, wondering why on God Almighty's green Earth would Jason purposefully and knowingly try to rip Phil off, his seemingly-guaranteed meal ticket to more money... No. There's more to the story than what Phil is expressing.

Here's what facts I know, from both sources, and also my opinions on it all:

Both Jason and Phil made mistakes. I've already told Jason what his were. He was too ambiguous about the details of the deal in the first place. Jason lacked the specificity of what he was to perform for Phil. Jason should have asked Phil up-front exactly what he was being sent to have work done in trade for the shift **** and other agreed-upon items. Jason assumed Phil would send a reasonable amount of parts. Instead, he got much more than he thought would be sent. Phil made the same mistake by not re-iterating exactly what he was trading his stuff for what work Jason was going to perform. Based on what I've been told and have read from both of them, as well as how I've seen Phil treat not only Jason but also myself, I believe Phil had impossibly-high standards that nobody could meet. Jason worked his tail off, accepting all of the parts that Phil sent. That's Jason's 2nd mistake. The lack of communication on both sides of the story with respect to the construction and factors of the original deal is at the heart of what's wrong here. Had they both spoken in detail about things and removed that said ambiguity, none of this would've occurred, I don't think.

If Jason still has any of Phil's parts, regardless of how this has blown up into a ground-zero site, they need to be returned. Jason can then wash his hands of any of it. So can Phil. I've told Jason to send Phil's FD body parts back that he still has. Phil deserves these parts because they belong to him.

Phil never sent Jason any money. Not a cent. He has therefore not been ripped off for $1,000. This original deal was a labour-for-exposure deal. Phil didn't do a very good job on his end of the deal by way of not promoting Jason's stuff. Phil didn't contact Jason directly for a lengthy period of time when what he received was not what he was excepting quality-of-work-wise. Phil should've done that. If Phil had a problem with it, instead of lambasting Jason on the forum here about the less-than-expected work (along with the zillion times he's cussed him out and called him names), he should've contacted Jason directly and spoken to him about it to either wash his hands of it and call the deal off, accepting the responsibility of the choice he made by sending Jason so many parts in the first place and choosing to have him to do the work instead of someone else, or to engage Jason to restructure the terms of the deal. Neither happened. During the one time Phil sent something back to Jason to re-do, Jason accepted the responsibility of it and re-did the work at his own cost. Otherwise, Jason was left in the dark. He can't read minds.

Phil was in absolutely no way scammed. If he was, then so was Jason by way of the amount of hours and money Jason spent on his work to try and make Phil happy. Phil chose and agreed to this non-monetary deal in the first place, knowing exactly what he was getting into by allowing Jason to do work, whether that work was good or not.

Phil, Jason tried his hardest to do right by you. That is an undeniable and irrefutable fact. He had every reason to. He may not have made the best decisions in terms of how this whole deal was constructed, but that's no reason to do what you've done and are continuing to do to him here. You share responsibility in this because you were just as assuming and non-communicative as him at the very beginning. He did the best he could and even re-did some work for you at your request in an attempt to do right. It wasn't good enough for you. You got what you paid for, which was $0.

Jason, send Phil his parts back. Otherwise, he will continue to demonise you on this forum and keep the spotlight on you, thereby allowing himself to placate his own personal responsibility. Wash your hands of this and move on to the next job.

Speaking of which, I think I'll do the same.

Best regards,

B

BDC

Fair enough. When I'm up in AL this month, I'll be happy to listen to Phil personally about it.

B

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Yikes, you are bad as me now! LOL!

again, you are getting involved in something without knowing the whole story nor reading what I've said.... and thinking I'm at a fault because I gave this guy many chances and Jason not following thru his words is my fault, you must be on something.

Again, read what i have said, read the example i made about converting tail lights and then tell me who's at fault.. Also remember that Jason initially offer to do the parts for FREE.. I was being nice and did not take him up on that offer. Maybe that was my fault! Geez, I'm really wondering what your business ethic is Brian! Everyone who emailed me and called me all tells me how nice you are but you now seem like the "Internet Pitbull" who's pushing to say I should just deal with my lost and that I need to do it again.. .Is that you point?? What because you call yourself a tuner/businessman and we should all understand your problems and my lost is my lost because my money isn't made from working on RX7s??

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Wait, didn't I say that initially??

Now you think you should listen to me in person?? You called me before, why not call instead name calling and now wanting to talk to me in person.. Why, because you think I'm sabotaging your tuning session?? or because you think I might be right and telling the truth?? You calling me name and what you are doing is so hypocritical, its quite amusing.

My interest at this point and the past is to pass on informations.. Just as you are doing now, stating how I have NO right to do this and I'm the person at wrong... Look at the facts here buddy!! Like YOU said about Jason, I have nothing to loose.. so, why would I lie?? I guess I just made up pictures and someone who actually try to pay back the community is the one whos wrong.. LOL! You are barking the wrong tree buddy!!

charlies7

iTrader: (4)

For the record I see nothing wrong with BDC's business ethics, also it may have been mentioned before, what did you do for jason to promote his product before when the deal was going on? I never say anything on the forum about you advertising for him. Just curious.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Charlies7,

You didn't see it as he never met the deadlines. Again, many false promises and hence I was unable to show off his product. I put his company info on DGRR2006 event and I was willing to show off his product at that event, then May 2006 at the Formula Drift ATL, when I was under Mazda tent, and at 2006 Nopi National at ATL under Speed for Sale. I know no one wants to read, but this was all stated.. And I have emails to back up this.. as some of you think I'm the one who's lying.

Bottomline, I don't have the parts, I can't promote.

Also, I know some of the local guys will back me up on this, but his first set of items were so bad, I had to send them back. He promised it will be done at reasonable time and I think it took over 6 months for me to get a set of door handles redone.. but still had several issues.. Thats around the time when I realize Jason was nothing but false promises..

Hope this clear up a bit for you Charlies7??

Again, I am surprised as some of you how BDC is acting.. I've always heard mainly good things, and some bad.. But after this interaction with him, I question his ethics..