I would NEVER DO business with Sonix7
06-06-07, 04:41 PM
#251
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Then I guess you haven't read much, take a hop on over to the SE section for a certain tuning event. That aside, it's a valid question. I'm not trying to justify anything deceitful, I just wanted to know what he would've done in that case. He still would have had panels, that certainly wouldn't have been black, that weren't originally what he gave to Jason. If he had given him a part that was broken, told him to fix it and cover it, should Jason have rebroken the part to give back to him so that it was in the same condition as when he first sent it? What would've happened if Jason had scuffed the surface of the panels so that the epoxy would've had a better bonding surface, but Phil wanted them back anyway? Yes, it's deceitful to try to cover up the fact that the panels aren't tan, I'm not arguing that at all. What I'm arguing is that this was an aborted project. You can't ask someone to take materials and parts, try to craft that into something, have it not work, and then say, "Ok, now give me all of my stuff back in it's original condition."
06-06-07, 04:53 PM
#252
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Look, I run a small lawn care business on the side just for extra FD money and if a customer wants their super knee-high grass cut and I cut it to about a good thick 2inch high level so that it feels like soft carpet, of course it would be stupid for them to say, "hey can I have it back a little higher?" But they sure can say, "hey can you cut it down some more?" Of course I would! Because to the customer that little bit lower cut is better to THEM!
Surely someone can expect better quality work than what Phil received...surely.
06-06-07, 04:54 PM
#253
BDC Motorsports
Brian, this is what bothers me. I don't understand this. Does it matter if they were paid for or not? I mean if I told you that I was building a drag car and wanted you to tune and/or sponsor it for free and I told you that I would help get your name out there and help to gain you some exposure but after you tuned my car I couldn't even get the thing to the starting line...does it matter that I paid you or not? Wouldn't you want to fix the problem? If I had to sit on the sidelines and watch the race instead of participate because of your tune and you refused to take responsibility for it, it would be hard not to tell other racers to stay away from your tuning. You get me?
I raise the question Brad because it begs to look into the specifics of the transaction. We can't just accept Phil's complaint splashed with a few pictures at face value if we're to be fair about finding out what the truth is. The issue here has to do with a "customer's" complaint, full of all sorts of obsessive, malicious behaviour, being directed at a service provider (Jason) who not only has many happy customers who've posted in this very thread but it also has to do with how Phil's words, as a customer who seems to bemoan responsibility, can dodge having the spotlight on himself while using this Internet forum to shoot holes through Jason's business. Specific to this, if Phil didn't pay for this work, or if there was any hint of ambiguity on either side as to the solidity of the deal, then it's not all that unreasonable for a deal like this to go sour and then end up with someone not having everything finished to standards that you and I or anyone else on the outside would have. Does that come across right?
As far as your example goes, it's not only perfectly reasonable but it's also a good one; one I can relate to. I get it. However, I don't believe it's comparable to the deal between Phil and Jason. A deal between us, in your hypothetical example, makes sense initially because certain factors of the deal are set forth up-front prior to any work being done on either side. I tune your car, you promote me (post about it, tell your buddies, whatever); simple and easy. No ambiguity; no room for error, no room for problems in the future. All of the communication is done up-front so as to prevent us from having an argument later on down the road. However, with respect to the matter at hand, not only was there a great deal of ambiguity on the terms of the deal (that's the fault of both parties), several months went by where things happened and didn't happen that should have (that's also the fault of both parties). Couple this with the fact that Jason, by way of the witness of several others that've posted here, has a history of having done at worst satisfactory work. Infact, aside from Phil's complaint, I haven't seen a single other paying customer of Jason's that's complained. From my perspective, that elevates Jason's "base" reputation; we're not starting completely from scratch about this guy because others are pleased with him.
If you or I had some miscommunication, or if either of us were irresponsible with our practices and chose not to communicate certain things that were foundational to the deal in the first place, it'd be no surprise if your tune wasn't 100% (and you were therefore upset) or if I was upset because I didn't feel as if you were doing a well-enough job promoting my tuning business. But, back over here, I've got 5 other happy customers that all say that I do a bang-up job. That in and of itself testifies to the quality of work I normally produce. That's the standard that can be reasonably expected by everyone when it comes to paying me to do tuning work. Now, in this example, I'm not attempting to absolve myself of the responsibility of not having spoken to you as I should, or not having setup boundaries that I should have with respect to how my tune was to be done properly on your car, or any of that. I'm trying to say that there may be a reasonable explanation that has nothing to do with your having been ripped off on why your tune wasn't 100%.
It's not my intent here to imply Phil the 100% bad guy (although I do believe he's acting very inappropriately and highly abusively) and Jason the wet-cheeked, 100% innocent guy. Jason's made some bad calls: He's kept a few of Phil's items, he wasn't up-front about the nature of the deal with Phil, and he chose not to speak about things that were occurring during the deal when he most assuredly should have. But, all in all, it doesn't mean that he purposefully, with intent, chose to send Phil junk. After all, isn't that what's at the very heart of this complaint?
Actually a lot. Think of the DGRR event. What about all the sponsors. Do you think that any of them would want to sponsor this event if they thought that Phil himself was a "rip-off" type customer? I would think Phil stands a lot to loose by falsely accusing a small business guy for his/her work. I think all the vendors know that Phil is a great guy to do business with because he attracts people to the RX-7 Community who in return are the vendors customers. Why would anyone want a middleman that makes false accusations about work done on RX-7s?
Generally speaking, a customer has no accountability for what he or she says. A product or service provider, however, has so much of it that we drown in the dread of the fear of doing that customer wrong.
I understand the role of Devil's Advocate but all of the above still doesn't matter to me as much as keeping parts that don't belong to you!
B
06-06-07, 05:11 PM
#254
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Maybe not, but your sure can say, "Ok, now give me all of my stuff back." Which hasn't been done.
Look, I run a small lawn care business on the side just for extra FD money and if a customer wants their super knee-high grass cut and I cut it to about a good thick 2inch high level so that it feels like soft carpet, of course it would be stupid for them to say, "hey can I have it back a little higher?" But they sure can say, "hey can you cut it down some more?" Of course I would! Because to the customer that little bit lower cut is better to THEM!
Surely someone can expect better quality work than what Phil received...surely.
Look, I run a small lawn care business on the side just for extra FD money and if a customer wants their super knee-high grass cut and I cut it to about a good thick 2inch high level so that it feels like soft carpet, of course it would be stupid for them to say, "hey can I have it back a little higher?" But they sure can say, "hey can you cut it down some more?" Of course I would! Because to the customer that little bit lower cut is better to THEM!
Surely someone can expect better quality work than what Phil received...surely.
Should you be given the chance to finish the work? Absolutely. Should your reputation be slaughtered? Possibly considering the work that was done, in Jason and Phil's case, did take an unusually large amount of time, but I don't think that taking it this far and to this degree shows very much character. I don't think anyone's trying to argue that most of the work done was sub-standard, I just think that what most everyone here is trying to convey is that the character assassination, mud slinging, and now messing with another man's business (Brian's, not Jason's), is simply taking things past the point of what's reasonable.
06-06-07, 05:13 PM
#255
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
First off, I would like to say thank you to those of you that I respect and like very much to put yourself in this line of fire. You are the only reason I am making this post. First off I would like to say that I know anything I do, or say will not reverse what has happened. Like I have said before, I was very sorry to Phil for the things that were unsatisfactory. I had to learn alot of crafts along the way, it was well documented and ultimately caused the long wait for the parts. I tried as hard as I could. As you can see, there was never telling Phil, "NO" he insisted I do the yellow, even after I told him the problems we will encounter with distortion in the weave. He did not listen and said, " a little distortion is alright". It was not alright. He made post after he got the first batch of parts from me, which he said himself he recieved months before the final shipment. He told me they were great, and some had problems. I told him to send them back and I would fix them of course. He waited til the end and did this. Of course I am going to get upset, I have poured my blood, sweat and tears into this stuff. I don't just sell stuff. I make them with my own two hands. Its easy for you guys to criticize me. It only makes be better at what I do. Thanx for that, but as far as bashing me and saying personal **** and including my info and family is way overboard. In that case I will do what it takes to protect myself. I have made many mistakes with Phil, I take full responsibility for the parts needing more attention to detail. half of the reason was that my paint guy moved and I had to learn it all for myself and its not easy. I admit I was terrible at polishing and buffing and wet sanding at first. Now with the door panel, once I worked on the panel for a while I trimmed it up and found that the CF did not lay down and adhere right in the vac bag process. I immediately knew that the only way to fix it was to buy a replacement panel and return both to Phil, I never touched the drivers side panel. I bought a replacement panel to send to Phil, when I got it, it was black. Matter of fact I thought it looked very good, it was in better condition than the one used originally. I then used an expensive vinyl cleaner to clean them up and sent them back. I never saw any of what Phil claims, why did the paint not come off when I cleaned it? Anyway, I would have replaced it again if he could PROVE that I did something wrong. He chose to defame me and ruin me, the damage on my side is far beyond repair. No amount of money will give me what Phil took. He made it personal and started to take it out on people of the most upmost character. BDC your an amazing tuner and more an amazing guy. Can't wait to have you back. Thanx to all, but like Joe said there is no resolution at this point. I hope this does not go any further.
06-06-07, 05:29 PM
#256
First off, I would like to say thank you to those of you that I respect and like very much to put yourself in this line of fire. You are the only reason I am making this post. First off I would like to say that I know anything I do, or say will not reverse what has happened. Like I have said before, I was very sorry to Phil for the things that were unsatisfactory. I had to learn alot of crafts along the way, it was well documented and ultimately caused the long wait for the parts. I tried as hard as I could. As you can see, there was never telling Phil, "NO" he insisted I do the yellow, even after I told him the problems we will encounter with distortion in the weave. He did not listen and said, " a little distortion is alright". It was not alright. He made post after he got the first batch of parts from me, which he said himself he recieved months before the final shipment. He told me they were great, and some had problems. I told him to send them back and I would fix them of course. He waited til the end and did this. Of course I am going to get upset, I have poured my blood, sweat and tears into this stuff. I don't just sell stuff. I make them with my own two hands. Its easy for you guys to criticize me. It only makes be better at what I do. Thanx for that, but as far as bashing me and saying personal **** and including my info and family is way overboard. In that case I will do what it takes to protect myself. I have made many mistakes with Phil, I take full responsibility for the parts needing more attention to detail. half of the reason was that my paint guy moved and I had to learn it all for myself and its not easy. I admit I was terrible at polishing and buffing and wet sanding at first. Now with the door panel, once I worked on the panel for a while I trimmed it up and found that the CF did not lay down and adhere right in the vac bag process. I immediately knew that the only way to fix it was to buy a replacement panel and return both to Phil, I never touched the drivers side panel. I bought a replacement panel to send to Phil, when I got it, it was black. Matter of fact I thought it looked very good, it was in better condition than the one used originally. I then used an expensive vinyl cleaner to clean them up and sent them back. I never saw any of what Phil claims, why did the paint not come off when I cleaned it? Anyway, I would have replaced it again if he could PROVE that I did something wrong. He chose to defame me and ruin me, the damage on my side is far beyond repair. No amount of money will give me what Phil took. He made it personal and started to take it out on people of the most upmost character. BDC your an amazing tuner and more an amazing guy. Can't wait to have you back. Thanx to all, but like Joe said there is no resolution at this point. I hope this does not go any further.
Well, here is something i had to endure and Ive sent many many emails like this for 1.5 years..
Originally Posted by me to Jason sent Jan 12, 2007
Jason,
I'm not going to respond to your email with another long email that I have to type... We already went over this before and my understanding was that for past 3-4 months was that you were going to send the parts. I've waited over a year now and I'm just wanting to apart with you. Its been over a year and I have been very patient..
This is the last thing I will do!
YOU send it and once I have the parts in my hand, I will paypal you $50.
You have my word. I've done everything youve asked, including buying parts, sending money, buying material and such.. When I have the parts, I WILL send you $50.. If $50 dollars holding things back, I will send it... But not until I know you I have recieved all these parts.. you have my word! I'm sure you have credit card, so, I don't think 1 week or so until you have the money will made a difference.
Send the parts, give me tracking info, when it arrives, I will send the money.. Plain and simple. Lets do this and stop wasting more time chatting about who has what problems.. I have problems too.
PHIL
I'm not going to respond to your email with another long email that I have to type... We already went over this before and my understanding was that for past 3-4 months was that you were going to send the parts. I've waited over a year now and I'm just wanting to apart with you. Its been over a year and I have been very patient..
This is the last thing I will do!
YOU send it and once I have the parts in my hand, I will paypal you $50.
You have my word. I've done everything youve asked, including buying parts, sending money, buying material and such.. When I have the parts, I WILL send you $50.. If $50 dollars holding things back, I will send it... But not until I know you I have recieved all these parts.. you have my word! I'm sure you have credit card, so, I don't think 1 week or so until you have the money will made a difference.
Send the parts, give me tracking info, when it arrives, I will send the money.. Plain and simple. Lets do this and stop wasting more time chatting about who has what problems.. I have problems too.
PHIL
06-06-07, 05:33 PM
#257
regarding door panel,
Now I hate to assume.. again.. but waiting for the parts for over a year, seeing apic of the door panel covered in CF back in late 2005, Its hard for me to believe it would lift few days before him finally sending the parts... Espeically when he raved about how his stuff will NEVER LIFT!!!
Originally Posted by Jason to me on Feb 5th, 2007
Parts that did not come out - door panel and mirrors. They both lifted and at that point we could not do them again. I tried everything. I need to instruct you on the rest of the ac conversion. You need to lengthen some wires and take a little notch out of the trany cover support beam, its very simple and then everything will work. I also primered the mirrors so you can just paint them. Sorry about the failure on some of those parts. I have no idea what happened to the door panel, but someone paid me $500 per panel to do theirs so I gave you back a basically perfect black door panel. I also freshed them up and made them look close to new. Also in the box is the headlight cover, the old jacked up PFC panel (I repainted it for you). A new pressure chamber because that just looked like ****, so I replaced it. You saw the pics above. That's it bro. I don't have another one of your parts. We are done. Sorry it took so long. I have no problem showing you exactly what you need to do to get the ac set-up working. That’s it. Thanx for everything. Look for that tracking number to show transit in the morn. Take care.
Jason
Jason
06-06-07, 05:36 PM
#258
After he sends all the parts he states this to me... This is the kicker if the pics I've posted is what I've recieved..
Again, when I posted the pics of some of the parts on forsale section, most thought the job wasn't done right.
Originally Posted by jason
I will also tell you that those parts came out great. I have pics of every single part I covered for you and it is a lot of stuff. By no means did you not make out on this deal, even if it took a year, but finance would have changed that. Thanx for teaching me a valuable lesson. I do believe I am a better person for it. Now its your turn to show me something. I need business, if those parts don't get anyone to call me, then I am going to be very upset. ***** in your court now.
06-06-07, 05:38 PM
#259
Lazyman
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If you or I had some miscommunication, or if either of us were irresponsible with our practices and chose not to communicate certain things that were foundational to the deal in the first place, it'd be no surprise if your tune wasn't 100% (and you were therefore upset) or if I was upset because I didn't feel as if you were doing a well-enough job promoting my tuning business. But, back over here, I've got 5 other happy customers that all say that I do a bang-up job. That in and of itself testifies to the quality of work I normally produce.
Yes, another example
I stated earlier that I have a lawn care business on the side for extra FD money. If I cut 50 yards perfect everytime I cut them but one day I'm having a bad day and I cut yard #49 awful, well the owner of yard #49 is not only NOT going to care about the quality of work that I've done on all the other yards but he's also not going to care about the quality of work that I've done on his yard in the past...he cares about how his yard looks now. That's a right of the customer and I know you know that. If I just just loaded up my stuff and high-tailed it out of there without fixing it or at least give an explanantion, I'll loose that customer as well as others. Not to mention if I took the guys lawn ornaments and never returned them 
06-06-07, 05:42 PM
#260
Send him a proper door panel and post some pictures of your better work for starters. May also be worth while to give him back any of his former possessions that you might still have on hand. People are willing to give you another chance, you just need to give them a reason to.
06-06-07, 05:46 PM
#261
Also remember that I have over 400 emails exchanged between this character and me.. since OCT of 2005!! Send him stock parts since 11-2005.
And about me giving him parts..
That shift **** he's talking about, I had to special order and costed me over $250.
And about me giving him parts..
Originally Posted by Jason Jan. 17th, 2006.... yes 2006! I already gave him over $800 worth of stuff
I just hope I can pay you back, you have given me multiple parts and over $500 in cloth, shift ****, I love!!
06-06-07, 05:50 PM
#262
This is what he stated to me.. again, back in Jan 2006..
I guess when his painter quit it was before my time.. Geez! Lies! Because at this point, he hasn't done any other 7 owners stuff.. like joe's.
And I guess he didn't quite see the imperfections on my parts... hmmm interesting.. he did half of what I got at this point..
Originally Posted by jason Jan. 16th, 2006
Yeah I am taking full control of things, I am building a really nice little paint booth, fully vented outside and many filters throughout. I am just wanting everything to be perfect and if its not then I am the one that is not satisfied. I see every mistake, or flaw or blemish on these parts, maybe more so than my customers even.
And I guess he didn't quite see the imperfections on my parts... hmmm interesting.. he did half of what I got at this point..
06-06-07, 06:02 PM
#263
Next.. he made it sound like he was going to send me parts before DGRR 2006..
Also he's telling me he's going to use up all the CF I bought for him and worrying about it.. but the truth was, he used it to do "other" people's stuff.. LOL! Again, I bought the material for converting my parts.. and told him any extra he could have.
Originally Posted by jason 3/16/2006
Your covered, yeah I am talking about the extra after your stuff is completed. I didn't order more thinking that I would have plenty and this happened. So after your stuff is done, I am worried about having more after that. Lucky part is that I have most of the parts already wrapped, just not cleared. I am down stairs and almost all of the yellow is ready for clear, minus the ac and shifter panels, which are almost done with the ac relocation part. Then I wrap those and we are done with the yellow. I have one door panel half way done, the other needs to be wrapped. I am almost done with the surrounds(headlights), battery box top, rear shock tower covers, jack and whatever other compartment is back in the trunk covers, pressure chamber, misc dash trim, and I think that is it for this box.
06-06-07, 06:03 PM
#264
BDC Motorsports
First, let me say that I do understand some of your points but here's the thing about the above statement.
Yes, another example I stated earlier that I have a lawn care business on the side for extra FD money. If I cut 50 yards perfect everytime I cut them but one day I'm having a bad day and I cut yard #49 awful, well the owner of yard #49 is not only NOT going to care about the quality of work that I've done on all the other yards but he's also not going to care about the quality of work that I've done on his yard in the past...he cares about how his yard looks now. That's a right of the customer and I know you know that. If I just just loaded up my stuff and high-tailed it out of there without fixing it or at least give an explanantion, I'll loose that customer as well as others. Not to mention if I took the guys lawn ornaments and never returned them
Yes, another example
I stated earlier that I have a lawn care business on the side for extra FD money. If I cut 50 yards perfect everytime I cut them but one day I'm having a bad day and I cut yard #49 awful, well the owner of yard #49 is not only NOT going to care about the quality of work that I've done on all the other yards but he's also not going to care about the quality of work that I've done on his yard in the past...he cares about how his yard looks now. That's a right of the customer and I know you know that. If I just just loaded up my stuff and high-tailed it out of there without fixing it or at least give an explanantion, I'll loose that customer as well as others. Not to mention if I took the guys lawn ornaments and never returned them The point is Phil can say whatever he wants about Jason's work on his lawn even though neither of them came to a solid, complete, and unamibguous understanding as to exactly what Jason's $50 labour charge was going to entail. As a customer in this example, he's not accountable to anyone. Jason is accountable to his customer because he received money and performed a service. Phil gets on the www.LawnProfessionals.com website, steers straight into the Good Lawn Guy/Bad Lawn Guy section of the forum, and tears Jason a new one, posting pictures of his "poor" lawn, eviscerating Jason personally and professionally, all the while completely absolving himself of his own responsibility in making assumptions and not communicating things straight on prior to Jason heading over w/ his mower. Nevermind the fact that the work performed isn't indicative of Jason's normal job. Nevermind the fact that several others have come to Jason's defense, arguing on his behalf of how well of a job he did on their lawns. Jason's slandered as a scam artist -- "Don't let him do your lawn!!"
B
06-06-07, 06:06 PM
#265
Here is the Defi gauge i bought him... because he wanted me to track one down for me.. took me awhile but got it.. and he never paid me..
Now the kicker..
pic was taken or I recieved this email, March 23rd, 2006...
You'll see that just behind the tan panel is the CF'd panel.. Its vacuum formed as he puts it, it will never lift.. I agree to a point..
I also know its vacuum formed because you could see the excess resin from the bag..
Now the kicker..
pic was taken or I recieved this email, March 23rd, 2006...
You'll see that just behind the tan panel is the CF'd panel.. Its vacuum formed as he puts it, it will never lift.. I agree to a point..
I also know its vacuum formed because you could see the excess resin from the bag..
06-06-07, 06:12 PM
#266
I emailed this to him in July 2006
jason wrote back
This is JULY of last year!! I didn't get any parts until Feb this year..
Again, I just wanted my parts back!!
Originally Posted by me
Jason.. I wish you luck on your venture and I will still post the parts you send me and post no the forum. I will do that since I have promised.
Also, please let me know realistic time in which you could finish the parts you've already started. Also please go ahead and send the parts you are not going to do. I need those parts so that I could go ahead and start here.. or just got my car put together.
Thanks!
PHIL
Also, please let me know realistic time in which you could finish the parts you've already started. Also please go ahead and send the parts you are not going to do. I need those parts so that I could go ahead and start here.. or just got my car put together.
Thanks!
PHIL
Originally Posted by jason
Phil, that sounds fair enough. I have about two weeks max on the rest of the parts. I will send everything I am not working on asap. Now on the door panels. I have one that needs finishing and one I have not touched. I can send the cloth I cut and the door panels and you can see if you can match the one I did. It will be a good standard, that way I can still finish the one I have and prove I can do a door panel. Its coming along nicely. I have a little longer than two weeks on the panel, everything else can be done in around two. Hope that works for you. I encourage anyone that can do this to actually do so, so I wish you luck. I assume you will figure out real quick how difficult this truly is and appreciate it even more down the road. Once again I appreciate everything from you and I hope that you feel even though I didn't accomplish all that was expected, I did you up nicely. As long as in the end you are proud of the work I did then I think all will be well. I still consider you a friend and please accept my dearest apology on the fact that I didn't get it all done. I hope you feel that I am also still your friend. Maybe in a couple of months we can do some other stuff, lets see how it goes. Thanx again man.
Again, I just wanted my parts back!!
06-06-07, 06:44 PM
#267
Regarding trying to work things out.. I think brian was wondering about this.. I did try.. multiple times..
His response
Again, I think we worked out the details if you ask me..
As stated before, I'm stating the fact here..
Originally Posted by me 8/4/2006
Jason,
You say, "So lets just forget about the financial part of this unless you would like to help, it is becoming redundant. " and then go on and on about fiancial issues?? I'll be honest with you, I've not brought up about money until you have.
This is what I'll do... If I send the handles and extra parts you made that doesn't fit, and you get those parts and all other parts you have of mine back to me by end of this month, I'll paypal you $50 to help out some... quicker, say I recieve it by Aug 26th (friday), I'll paypal you $100. I'm a man of my words and will definitely pay you if this is the deal.
If this sounds like a deal, then let me know. I'll send out the parts first thing monday.
By the way, thanks for finishing up the shifter panel.
PHIL
You say, "So lets just forget about the financial part of this unless you would like to help, it is becoming redundant. " and then go on and on about fiancial issues?? I'll be honest with you, I've not brought up about money until you have.
This is what I'll do... If I send the handles and extra parts you made that doesn't fit, and you get those parts and all other parts you have of mine back to me by end of this month, I'll paypal you $50 to help out some... quicker, say I recieve it by Aug 26th (friday), I'll paypal you $100. I'm a man of my words and will definitely pay you if this is the deal.
If this sounds like a deal, then let me know. I'll send out the parts first thing monday.
By the way, thanks for finishing up the shifter panel.
PHIL
Originally Posted by Jason 8/4/2006
Fair enough, sounds like a deal. I wish I honestly did not have to say anything about moneySad smiley emoticon, but it is ultimately the biggest obstacleBaring teeth smiley emoticon. Not a problem on the yellow, the pattern is a little different between the shifter and the stereo panel, but you really can not tell. Everything else came out real nice. Anyway LMK when they ship as soon as I get the box I will be on it. The only part that may not be done before then will be the door panel, but I will do my damndest. Everything else will be done by then and back. Honestly Phil any money given to me is to pay for the parts on your car and nothing else. I am far from making any kind of profit on this unless it turns into other jobs period. Anyway lets just do like you said. I am here if you need anything. Thanx
As stated before, I'm stating the fact here..
06-06-07, 06:48 PM
#268
I then send him an email 2 days later about the condition of what I've recieved so far... again, back in AUG. 2006...
Again, If you read this email I sent Jason, he had PLENTY OF TIME!
Wait, Didn't he say, I never said anything about it?? Ha, Wait, I did.. AUG 2006!!! Almost 6 months prior to recieving painted tan door panels..
Again, he had plenty of time to correct his mistakes and faulty parts... and I came up and stuck to the plans.. then later he asks for more money..
Originally Posted by ME
Jason,
After consulting with a friend about my situation, I have to re think about few things.
First, the part I've shown you, is completely useless to me as it no longer fit my car. And I and my friend agree, its at fault of yours, in which I now can't even use that part and not sure if I should take chance to send another set just to get back the pieces unuseable.
I like yourself, also need money and I can't imagine spending more money for parts so that you could practice. At this point, I've invested way too much money and time on you for me to recieve useless parts. I will however send the handles to get fixed as I can't see them being messed up. I would also hope that you will replace the parts that you have mess up, as I believe its your responsibility. And just as your situation have chance from initial agreement, mine have changed also.
I will however still stick to what I've said earlier, If you send the parts back (including the handles) by Aug. 26th or before Sept. I will send some money to help you out. Even though I feel at this point, I've help you out enough, I will stick to that agreement.
Hope you understand where I'm coming from and I will send the handles out to you tomorrow morning.
Thanks!
PHILIP SOHN
After consulting with a friend about my situation, I have to re think about few things.
First, the part I've shown you, is completely useless to me as it no longer fit my car. And I and my friend agree, its at fault of yours, in which I now can't even use that part and not sure if I should take chance to send another set just to get back the pieces unuseable.
I like yourself, also need money and I can't imagine spending more money for parts so that you could practice. At this point, I've invested way too much money and time on you for me to recieve useless parts. I will however send the handles to get fixed as I can't see them being messed up. I would also hope that you will replace the parts that you have mess up, as I believe its your responsibility. And just as your situation have chance from initial agreement, mine have changed also.
I will however still stick to what I've said earlier, If you send the parts back (including the handles) by Aug. 26th or before Sept. I will send some money to help you out. Even though I feel at this point, I've help you out enough, I will stick to that agreement.
Hope you understand where I'm coming from and I will send the handles out to you tomorrow morning.
Thanks!
PHILIP SOHN
Wait, Didn't he say, I never said anything about it?? Ha, Wait, I did.. AUG 2006!!! Almost 6 months prior to recieving painted tan door panels..
Again, he had plenty of time to correct his mistakes and faulty parts... and I came up and stuck to the plans.. then later he asks for more money..
06-06-07, 06:56 PM
#269
Sept 13th, 2007
NO ANSWER!!
Sept. 26th, 2006
He replies..
Do you guys remember when I kept saying false promises.... now some of you see it??
Originally Posted by ME
Thanks Jason! If you could send them out before Sept 30th, that would be awesome!
Also can you shoot me some pics of the parts in progress?
Thanks!
PHIL
Also can you shoot me some pics of the parts in progress?
Thanks!
PHIL
Sept. 26th, 2006
Originally Posted by me
Jason,
Wondering if you send the rest of the parts out yet. If not, can you at least update me with some pics of the parts you have? I need to know what you have of mine and what stage they are in.
Thanks!
PHIL
Wondering if you send the rest of the parts out yet. If not, can you at least update me with some pics of the parts you have? I need to know what you have of mine and what stage they are in.
Thanks!
PHIL
Originally Posted by jason
Phil I am trying to finish up the AC panel and shifter today so it can ship. I wasn't happy with the way the headlight cover was coming out and you would have been disappointed, so I unwrapped it and am in the process of molding it and making them in CF. I figured it is going to be super easy to make those. I already started the mold and I also fixed my mold release issue. It should be a week or so on that part. I am in stage 2 still on the door panel. It needs to have a few more brush layers or resin and sand and clear. The mirrors, one of them I had to redo and the verdict is still out on that. I am working hard. I also have a set of interior door handle trims that are being done and almost ready in 2 twill. After that I think that is it pretty much Phil. So I have the door panels, the headlight cover, the mirrors, the ac panel and shifter panel, exterior door trims, plus I still have the old PFC ac stereo panel to send back also. oh and last but not least the pressure chamber from a while ago. If I get done later today with the AC relocation then it goes out. I have been busting my *** to finish this up for you Phil, I know you hate that it takes a while, but I still want you to know deep down I am trying to get you the best work my hands can do. I still don't have my camera back and I also ordered some photo equipment to help take better photos. I will have some probably tommorrow if I can get the camera back later. Anyway, Its gonna be close the 30th deadline, but I tried hard brother. hope that works for you. Have fun man.
06-06-07, 07:29 PM
#270
I know Jason mentioned earlier that I didn't promote him.. again, I've tried..
No response from jason after this email..
Oct. 10th, 2006
His response..
Originally Posted by Me 9/26/07
Jason,
Its been a rough ride. I know you tried and did you best.. appreciate your efforts. I just wished it was bit quicker and which I could of better helped you. I had a prime spot at the Nopi and could of shown your product. I was with the Saleen and next to the 1000HP viper that almost everyone took pictures of. Oh well... maybe next time.
Its been a rough ride. I know you tried and did you best.. appreciate your efforts. I just wished it was bit quicker and which I could of better helped you. I had a prime spot at the Nopi and could of shown your product. I was with the Saleen and next to the 1000HP viper that almost everyone took pictures of. Oh well... maybe next time.
Oct. 10th, 2006
Originally Posted by me
Jason,
Just wondering if you send the stuff out.
Keep me posted on the progress. Hope to get them soon!
Just wondering if you send the stuff out.
Keep me posted on the progress. Hope to get them soon!
Originally Posted by jason 10/10/06
Phil, hey man. Yes I am real close almost there. The yellow detail work was intricate. you will see. I should have that box coming in the next few days for you. I also constructed the mold for the headlight cover, I was going to cleanse the mold and make a CF one here in the next few days. If it comes out perfect then that one will come along too. Thanx for being patient Phil, it will be worth it to you I hope in the end. I will be in touch with some tracking info soon. Take care.
06-06-07, 07:38 PM
#271
Another email I sent him about the problems with the parts he sent me mid last year..
I know again, Jason stated that I didn't mention it before??
I also included the pics with this...
[quote=me]Jason,
Another problem..
I tried to fit some of the parts and they do not fit. Especially this one (pics attatched).
Looks like you might of put too much vac when the resin/epoxy was hardening. It warp the shape of the part and I can not snap it in. And yes, I've removed some resin around the corner, cleaned the surround,etc.. and still do not snap on. This is a problem.. I have not tried to do other side.
[quote]
And just so you know, I have 3 FD's and spare rear truck pieces.. it didn't fit in any of them.. interesting.. hmm
And thats exactly what I email him..
He wrote back.. a novel!!
Again, lot of words... nothing! And again, he stated, here (earlier Lot less than $1000) $1000 to do the WHOLE interior... And at this point, gave him parts and supplies exceeding $1000.. and he confirmed it in previous email that he recieved them.. Now he ask for reciepts?? Funny.
I send him the door handles as promised.. following up on my words..
At this point, i gave up on Jason's skill and just wanted to get my parts back!!
I know again, Jason stated that I didn't mention it before??
I also included the pics with this...
[quote=me]Jason,
Another problem..
I tried to fit some of the parts and they do not fit. Especially this one (pics attatched).
Looks like you might of put too much vac when the resin/epoxy was hardening. It warp the shape of the part and I can not snap it in. And yes, I've removed some resin around the corner, cleaned the surround,etc.. and still do not snap on. This is a problem.. I have not tried to do other side.
[quote]
Originally Posted by jason
Phil, I am sorry those are turning out that way. I did test fit them on the trim out of the vehicle, maybe somehow it worked on mine and in the car its giving you problems.
And thats exactly what I email him..
Originally Posted by Me 8/4/2006
Jason,
I think at this point, I could be more critical since I feel like I've "paid" you for the work instead of you doing me a favor (did buy $250+shiftknob, $400+ CF, $120+ gauge, $100 R1 front lip, 99 lip, etc). If I recall, you have quoted a local guy here to do his interior for less than what I've spend so far and time.
I don't know how you got to fit the part that was warped on your car, but it didn't fit on either of the FD's I have and my additional rear hatch pieces I had here. Its REALLY hard to believe mazda would of made different hatch pieces.
Once again, I would greatly appreciated if you could give me an estimated time on the other parts. I would like to get all the parts back within next 2-3 weeks. And also hope that since I'm more of your customer than previous engagement, you would put me in priority.
Thanks
PHIL
PS. I'm considering sending the handles back. But I need to know how long it will take. I don't want to send it off and take 2 months to get back. So, give me an estimated time. Also, I have extra warped parts. I think its right that you fix what you did wrong, if you feel otherwise, I understand.
I think at this point, I could be more critical since I feel like I've "paid" you for the work instead of you doing me a favor (did buy $250+shiftknob, $400+ CF, $120+ gauge, $100 R1 front lip, 99 lip, etc). If I recall, you have quoted a local guy here to do his interior for less than what I've spend so far and time.
I don't know how you got to fit the part that was warped on your car, but it didn't fit on either of the FD's I have and my additional rear hatch pieces I had here. Its REALLY hard to believe mazda would of made different hatch pieces.
Once again, I would greatly appreciated if you could give me an estimated time on the other parts. I would like to get all the parts back within next 2-3 weeks. And also hope that since I'm more of your customer than previous engagement, you would put me in priority.
Thanks
PHIL
PS. I'm considering sending the handles back. But I need to know how long it will take. I don't want to send it off and take 2 months to get back. So, give me an estimated time. Also, I have extra warped parts. I think its right that you fix what you did wrong, if you feel otherwise, I understand.
Originally Posted by jason 8/4/06
Phil, I never was disagreeing with what you reported back. Instead I apologized for that. What parts are having the problems exactly? Also if you send the handles back and the extra parts, I will fix the handles and have them back, no longer than 2 weeks from the day I get them. As far as the other parts, I am working on them as hard as I can. The only piece I have I am not currently working on is the door panel. I am working the mirrors, which are giving me all types of problems. the ac relocation in yellow (pics below) the headlight induction cover, the pressure tank, the yellow passenger side arm rest, cowl (done), and I also need to send back the longer pieces that could not fit in the boxes last time, and the old relocation PFC screen panel. After that the two door panels and that is it. I am trying to have those pieces done by the end of the month. I have a ton of parts going on at the same time and am getting them all done as fast I can. Hope that works. As far as what I quoted a guy months ago, things have changed. I do plain weave interiors for $800.00 the 2 twill is around $1000.00 that is what I have been charging due to the industry demands, this stuff costs a lot more than you think, not to mention the paint supplies. I have sold about three jobs for that price, and one guy spent $300 a piece for the door panels. I am just waiting for him to send the stuff. So lets just forget about the financial part of this unless you would like to help, it is becoming redundant. I have no problem fixing the pieces that somehow got warped, honestly they could have twisted a little in the bag process. Like I said you live and you learn. Now, I am so low on funds right now, I can't afford to ship more than one or two more packages. The door panels are going to be a major deal. Any help with that would be very noble of you. I am trying to make things right but I ran out of money to keep throwing at this. That is the major deciding factor in this. Things are not good right now for me or my family Phil. I must do what I have to in order to make sure that no more money is spent. My time is something I can work with, the money I can't. I have a baby and a boy starting school and bills. I am sorry if that is why this came to this. Any help would have been gladly accepted and also made this process go faster. As for the warped parts, I will fix them as fast as I can, but things are about to get real busy for me, that is also why I am finishing up your stuff asap, so I can't guarantee anything as far as how fast on those. I will do the handles in two weeks and send them back, my mistake. So you LMK, also I hope that in the end you follow through with your part of the deal and do you best to show off anything you feel is worth it, otherwise I did this for nothing. I unfortunately have not been able to enjoy those trade gifts like the shift **** and guage. Why? My car has been put last and others before me and your one of them. I did that because I felt it would work out to something for me and also hook you up in the process. At this point I feel a little different and am very eager to see how this pans out. I wish you well and I will talk to you soon.
Jason
Jason
I send him the door handles as promised.. following up on my words..
Originally Posted by me 8/7/06
Jason,
I shipped the door handles out today.
FEDEX Tracking: 045737236544666
Should get there in 2-3 days.. Tracking will be available sometime tonight.
Please get these and other parts done ASAP so that we could both move on..
If you get it back to me by end of this month, I'll be a happy man, and no hard feelings.. even with the parts that dont fit
PHIL
I shipped the door handles out today.
FEDEX Tracking: 045737236544666
Should get there in 2-3 days.. Tracking will be available sometime tonight.
Please get these and other parts done ASAP so that we could both move on..
If you get it back to me by end of this month, I'll be a happy man, and no hard feelings.. even with the parts that dont fit
PHIL
Last edited by Herblenny; 06-06-07 at 07:51 PM.
06-06-07, 09:20 PM
#272
I'll keep going..
Jason sounded like he was doing all this stuff for free.. but why would he state this after I bought him the $250 illuminating RX8 shifter??
As I stated before, i told him, dont worry about it and we'll work it out at the end.... I didn't think him paying me $100 will lead to me giving him another $1000 in parts, cash, materials, and tracking down stuff for him to mold and sell (feed covers)... LOL!
AGAIN, I think we are starting to see, he made a commitment and telling me what he will do..
As I stated before, I been helping Jason for over 2months at this point... Again, I like to help fellow rotary owners and unlike what some of you think, I been doing that without compensation for years..
Jason sounded like he was doing all this stuff for free.. but why would he state this after I bought him the $250 illuminating RX8 shifter??
Originally Posted by jason Dec. 1st, 2005
I owe you something for that **** so lets figure it out..... Its gonna take like two yards to do the speedo cowl, ac panel, shifter panel and ashtray, DS door trim and map pocket, PS door trim, inside triangles, outside triangles, door handles, and interior door handle trim. That should take 2 yards. I use as much of the cloth wisely as I can. Anyway that’s about $100.00 and some change. So whatever you think is fair and will work the best. You can order and have it sent to me, I can order it or whatever.
Originally Posted by jason 12/5/2005
12/5/2005
"For you I am hooking yours up for the bare minimum and I am going to put some of my own investment into your stuff, for the dake of you being such a good friend and helping me out so much. Really showed me what kinf od guy you are, and I like having friends with your type of character. ThanxWinking smiley emoticon I super appreciate the extra pieces, that helps a lot. Just let me know if you need some compensation for those. "
"For you I am hooking yours up for the bare minimum and I am going to put some of my own investment into your stuff, for the dake of you being such a good friend and helping me out so much. Really showed me what kinf od guy you are, and I like having friends with your type of character. ThanxWinking smiley emoticon I super appreciate the extra pieces, that helps a lot. Just let me know if you need some compensation for those. "
As I stated before, I been helping Jason for over 2months at this point... Again, I like to help fellow rotary owners and unlike what some of you think, I been doing that without compensation for years..
Last edited by Herblenny; 06-06-07 at 09:28 PM.
06-06-07, 09:38 PM
#273
Just in case, those of you doubt about all these emails...
Here is a screenshot of most of it!! And this does not include PMs on this forum when he first contacted me and when I was trying to get info on the progress.. when he didn't reply my emails..
Seriously, hundreds of emails.. And I've spend HOURS on the phone.. This went on from 10/2005 til recieving tan panels in 2/2007... Can you say frustration??
Before taking side to someone who's been lying on this forum, to someone else he meets, see the facts before name calling....
Again, This email I sent him in 8/4/2006 sums up my frustration back then.. but kept at it for another 8 months.. and hoped that he would make things right..
Jason,
I think at this point, I could be more critical since I feel like I've "paid" you for the work instead of you doing me a favor (did buy $250+shiftknob, $400+ CF, $120+ gauge, $100 R1 front lip, 99 lip, etc). If I recall, you have quoted a local guy here to do his interior for less than what I've spend so far and time.
Here is a screenshot of most of it!! And this does not include PMs on this forum when he first contacted me and when I was trying to get info on the progress.. when he didn't reply my emails..
Seriously, hundreds of emails.. And I've spend HOURS on the phone.. This went on from 10/2005 til recieving tan panels in 2/2007... Can you say frustration??
Before taking side to someone who's been lying on this forum, to someone else he meets, see the facts before name calling....
Again, This email I sent him in 8/4/2006 sums up my frustration back then.. but kept at it for another 8 months.. and hoped that he would make things right..
Originally Posted by Me 8/4/2006
Jason,
I think at this point, I could be more critical since I feel like I've "paid" you for the work instead of you doing me a favor (did buy $250+shiftknob, $400+ CF, $120+ gauge, $100 R1 front lip, 99 lip, etc). If I recall, you have quoted a local guy here to do his interior for less than what I've spend so far and time.
Last edited by Herblenny; 06-06-07 at 10:03 PM.
06-06-07, 10:34 PM
#274
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Send him a proper door panel and post some pictures of your better work for starters. May also be worth while to give him back any of his former possessions that you might still have on hand. People are willing to give you another chance, you just need to give them a reason to.
06-06-07, 10:48 PM
#275
By the way, you could return everything (Defi gauge, Shiftknob, door panels, 99 lips, 93 R1 lip,etc...) minus the CF.. that you used it on other people's parts so, thats fine
I'll even tell you you don't have to replace any defective parts you've sent me... Just return what I gave you.. I think this is VERY reasonable??
And especially, you still think you did all the stuff for FREE, you shouldn't have any issue sending these parts back.
This I wrote to, Joe Mirabile
Originally Posted by me 2/13/2007
he mentions FREE...
If he truely feels it was free.. then ask him to compensate for all the parts I've bought for him.
Just doing that, I will call it even.. Even the time I've spend. Otherwise, he needs to stop saying FREE. He did Zero favors for me at the end.
Hope this make sense to you, as FREE doesn't apply to what he did to me.
PHILIP SOHN
If he truely feels it was free.. then ask him to compensate for all the parts I've bought for him.
Just doing that, I will call it even.. Even the time I've spend. Otherwise, he needs to stop saying FREE. He did Zero favors for me at the end.
Hope this make sense to you, as FREE doesn't apply to what he did to me.
PHILIP SOHN