and i don;t knwo much about water injection yet....but it think that it is injected somewhere else other than in the intake tubing

 

Its injected before the intake manifold, or just about anywhere after the intercooler.

 

but wouldn;t it settle into little puddles if it was topo far from teh combustion chamber? and if it was too far away would it cool teh combustion chamber effectively?

 

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=140773

 

The injectors spray a very fine mist, so that it would not pool up. You have to have the special injectors included in the kit. Its only injected at a certain boost or rpm setting, so that it isn't spraying all the time. It still cools effectively anywhere it is tapped into the piping, closer might be a little better but either way its going to cool the intake temps. It has been proven that you can run higher boost or higher air fuel ratios safer, which equals more power, or just leave them the same to have a margin of safety on the motor.

 

Aquamist sells the kit for about $500 I think.

 

i want one then. haha

 

Man, I thought the Aquamist kit was closer to $800, but I could be wrong. There's also one sold by a guy who runs GN's for like $350.

http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/SteveCkit.html

In theory, you could run water injection as a ported system, like port-NOS. Probably doesn't metter too much, though, as the water will get in there one way of the other. You'd probably have better distribution with a port system, though. Considering that port fuel injection untimately runs smoother than single-point injection, and that water is heavier than gasoline, it makes sense that port WI would be the way to go.

One nice by-product of water injection is serious reduction of carbon deposits.

Ren

Ren

 

BTW, the point behind WI is reduction of intake air and combustion temps, thereby reducing detonation. Nitrous oxide would cool the air, but would seriously increase the possibility of detonation. Therefore you'd have to use more fuel, and probably of a higher octane rating, to stave off detonation. WI allows you to safely run more boost on pump gas than nitrous would.

Ren

 

well ain;t you smart :-D



doesn;t propane injection do the same thing? as well as adding octane to the chamber?

 

Yes, but then you are moe likely to run over-rich, to the point of decreasing power. If you injected both proane for the fuel and nitrous for the oxygen, then it might even out.

You know, of all the people I have met through this club, you seem the likeliest to try such a crazy thing...

Ren

 

Dan,
Hopefully this post won't be deleted (like my last one concerning the Diasio 962R). Concerning Water injection-yes these systems work well - the closer to the location to the combustion chamber the better-we thought about using the oil injector location in the rotor housings (for full race engines that utilize pre-mixed fuel.) As for intercooler cooling- I was very impressed with a new system that was demonstrated at the PRI show using C02 as the cooling medium. The system is 3-way- The C02 bottle feeds to the fuel rail, then through a tube and bulb assembly located within the intercooler piping, and finnaly to an oval shaped perforated tube in front of the intercooler. The flow of C02 allows for cooling of the fuel, the intake air within the IC tubing and then is vented across the IC core. Their demonstration-while admittedly unscientific- showed a 60% improvement in air temp reduction over a simple air -air IC. The best part is C02 is much cheaper and more efficient than N0s. A short 3 second blast of C02 through their demo setup produced an almost immediate icing within the test IC tubing. Yes this has been done before but these guys have developed a more efficient method than the other discharge systems I've seen. Now if we can just get the Liquid Nitrogen dual wall piping system working we will eliminate the need for an Intercooler all together.
Regards,
Bryan
Rotorsports Racing

 

wow, i will definitely have to check up on these systems more

get some plans for the future :-D

 

Bryan, thats very interesting. I have never heard of that method, but sounds like it is very efficient. So would that mean if the intercooler could be eliminated that the intake charge could actually be lower than ambient temps? When you say "icing" does that mean it is actually producing intake temps to go below freezing? Plus there wouldn't be any pressure loss that can result from larger intercoolers.

 

Dan,
Their demo system was of course not a "real world" situation with an operational engine and turbo-thus the icing I described was a result of the reduction of temps versus ambient. The other system I was referring to is a theoretical dual wall IC piping setup (of my own design/crazy dream?) with liquid nitrogen as the medium flowing between the two pipes to cool the inner piping. Its never been done -as far as I know- but I am working on the idea with a cryogenic supplier. What I've been told is it can't be done cost effectively-BUT if it were to allow the elimination of an air -air IC ,piping, the associated pressure drop,etc, it would be worth the effort. Liquid nitrogen would definetly drop the temps WELL below ambient temps even with the compressed temperature rise. The only problem we forsee is developing a system that will utilize liquid nitrogen in closed loop so it wouldn't be vented to atmosphere.

 

I see, well if the intercooler could be eliminated and temps dropped well below ambiant, it just may be cost effective, certainly would be to some people. I was wondering about the closed loop system, only way to do it really I suppose.

 

damn...wish i had connections like that. to get my dreams set up.

 

You think nitrous is hard to find and expensive? Well, not THAT hard to find, but still a hell of a lot easier to find than liquid nitrogen. The only place you would be able to get liquid nitrogen would be a cryogenic liquid supplier. Ask me how I know...

Also, this would only be feasible for full race vehicles. There's no way you'd be able to (cheaply) recondense the vaporized nitrogen, as it has a boiling point of -310 degrees.

Ren

 

you are SOOO happy to have foudn a conversation like this aren;t you ren? hahahahahahah

 

Has anyone ever thought about using an A/C system hooked up in a closed loop path through a double wall finned intercooler. The key would be for the freon to never actually be exposed to the outside air. It would just keep circulating from the A/C system through the double walled veins whick would have freon core tubes inside of every air vein so that the air and freon would never actually mix. Of coarse we'd do the same with the oil coolers and radiator. ;o) That CO2 plan sounds pretty straight forward as well...hmm..

 

that freon idea would requirea lot of equipment..

 

not to say it is a bad idea....i jstu think i liek the idea of cooling those parts with CO2 or N20....or for us cheap guys, we can use water

 

I talked to several knowledgeable A/C technicians and turbo-savvy people about this. The problem is it requires a hell of a lot of freon to cool properly, and you would probably need a larger compressor, condenser, and evaporator to make it work. By the time you have all the equipment installed, it would be expensive and take a lot of space. THEN you'd STILL have to run the compressor, which would probably take up about as much power as you would gain.

Not a great idea, considering there are cheaper, better options out there.

CO2 wouldn't be a bad idea, but you couldn't use it in the intake, only on the outside. Remember, CO2 puts out fires. Also, it would displace the same amount of oxygen as the CO2 you would inject, so you'd have less available for combustion. Same goes for nitrogen-only injection.

Ren

 

Yeah, George, technical discussions are my specialty. At least in areas with which I am familiar.

Ren

 

how about using a C02 sprayer and a water spreayer on your FMIC to beaically turn it into a smal block of ice?