My PT6265 build...
Random question before I get tuned on Friday. I'm doing 50/50 preturbo water/meth injection. Would it be safe to do the mixture according to weight, or do I need to do it based on volume? I don't want to blow off couplers because the mixture preignited before reaching the motor.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
"how much water should you be injecting for a desired power goal?"
that is an excellent question that i am sure most would like to have answered.
for max benefit to the club i would expand it to:
how much water for a OE turbo situation un-ported running under one bar w the objectives of longevity and internal de-carbonization?
how much water for the typical GT35 at the 400 rw area?
how much water for the maxxed out GT35?
how much water for 25 psi?
how does pre-turbo V post-turbo influence delivery levels?
there are many members on the board that are qualified to address these questions so let's hear from them. i am not qualified as i have never run 100% water.
for the record, i have never taken a side on the water versus meth issue, i simply picked meth to use. both work well and have their pluses and minuses. i am now of the opinion that a combo may/repeat/may be most suitable for many apps)
"if AI fails for whatever reason with water, your engine does not blow immediately, with 50/50 it will."
i suggest you reconsider...
if you will take a look at my previous post and work the numbers a complete failure of AI deliver using an M7 nozzle and a 50/50 mix will result in losing:
3721 BTUs w a 150 PSI pump
4239 BTUs w a 200 PSI pump
AFR impact:
an 11.1 AFR would change to 11.47 w the 150 pump
an 11.1 AFR would change to 11.53 w the 200 pump
i do not believe the above AFR change spells immediate engine failure.
run water
run meth
run water/meth
the key of course is to run something.
others are not so agnostic. for example:
"I STRONGLY recommend you switch over to WM50, it is vastly superior to running just plain water, again you can experiment yourself on this but I will safe you allot of time and more broken engine parts"
that would be RiceRacing mid 2012 in another forum.
i say, run any of the three options as they all deliver benefits when properly aligned w your needs.
"If your counting on a knock sensor to be triggered and then react from it, that may be the case because knock in a rotary means bad things are happening NOW."
my ViPEC V88 does have a comprehensive internal active knock system that is completely definable w re to knock definition and response. while this system would not have saved my motor on Jan 16 it would easily and successfully deal w a knock progression due to, say, lack of injectant from a pump failure etc.
while the power FC does not offer an active knock response it can report knock activity on the increase and therefore can greatly help in the tune process as knock does follow a continuum.
"But an AI failsafe is triggered before detonation starts to happen so in my opinion there is plenty of time for the boost to shut down before serious detonation starts to occur."
i do completely agree w you that additional active AI safeguards should be on board and the AEM, as i mentioned, looks exceptional. my point is that once a failure is diagnosed the response needs to be so immediate that the reduction in boost is significantly after the fact.
at 7500 RPM the time between combustion events on each rotor face is .008 of a second. 8 Ms. depending on the nature and timing of the AI system failure, a wastegate response might not be timely. relief may need to be on the next rotor face.
again, i am not knocking the AEM safeguard, i like it, my point is i believe the only timely response that would work in all types of system failures would be ignition.
just a couple of other items...
i really am on board w the IGN-1A coils. while not quite on the dyno so i can speak w first hand experience they are on my build and i am optimistic they have the punch. we will see.
i like the 50/50 mix based on volume. i do think it is very important when you do a mix that you have no variance and volume is easy to do rather than by weight. i recommend distilled water.
Howard
that is an excellent question that i am sure most would like to have answered.
for max benefit to the club i would expand it to:
how much water for a OE turbo situation un-ported running under one bar w the objectives of longevity and internal de-carbonization?
how much water for the typical GT35 at the 400 rw area?
how much water for the maxxed out GT35?
how much water for 25 psi?
how does pre-turbo V post-turbo influence delivery levels?
there are many members on the board that are qualified to address these questions so let's hear from them. i am not qualified as i have never run 100% water.
for the record, i have never taken a side on the water versus meth issue, i simply picked meth to use. both work well and have their pluses and minuses. i am now of the opinion that a combo may/repeat/may be most suitable for many apps)
"if AI fails for whatever reason with water, your engine does not blow immediately, with 50/50 it will."
i suggest you reconsider...
if you will take a look at my previous post and work the numbers a complete failure of AI deliver using an M7 nozzle and a 50/50 mix will result in losing:
3721 BTUs w a 150 PSI pump
4239 BTUs w a 200 PSI pump
AFR impact:
an 11.1 AFR would change to 11.47 w the 150 pump
an 11.1 AFR would change to 11.53 w the 200 pump
i do not believe the above AFR change spells immediate engine failure.
run water
run meth
run water/meth
the key of course is to run something.
others are not so agnostic. for example:
"I STRONGLY recommend you switch over to WM50, it is vastly superior to running just plain water, again you can experiment yourself on this but I will safe you allot of time and more broken engine parts"
that would be RiceRacing mid 2012 in another forum.
i say, run any of the three options as they all deliver benefits when properly aligned w your needs.
"If your counting on a knock sensor to be triggered and then react from it, that may be the case because knock in a rotary means bad things are happening NOW."
my ViPEC V88 does have a comprehensive internal active knock system that is completely definable w re to knock definition and response. while this system would not have saved my motor on Jan 16 it would easily and successfully deal w a knock progression due to, say, lack of injectant from a pump failure etc.
while the power FC does not offer an active knock response it can report knock activity on the increase and therefore can greatly help in the tune process as knock does follow a continuum.
"But an AI failsafe is triggered before detonation starts to happen so in my opinion there is plenty of time for the boost to shut down before serious detonation starts to occur."
i do completely agree w you that additional active AI safeguards should be on board and the AEM, as i mentioned, looks exceptional. my point is that once a failure is diagnosed the response needs to be so immediate that the reduction in boost is significantly after the fact.
at 7500 RPM the time between combustion events on each rotor face is .008 of a second. 8 Ms. depending on the nature and timing of the AI system failure, a wastegate response might not be timely. relief may need to be on the next rotor face.
again, i am not knocking the AEM safeguard, i like it, my point is i believe the only timely response that would work in all types of system failures would be ignition.
just a couple of other items...
i really am on board w the IGN-1A coils. while not quite on the dyno so i can speak w first hand experience they are on my build and i am optimistic they have the punch. we will see.
i like the 50/50 mix based on volume. i do think it is very important when you do a mix that you have no variance and volume is easy to do rather than by weight. i recommend distilled water.
Howard
If i remember correctly, 10 parts meth and 8 parts water (when measuring volume) basically equals 50/50 by weight.
I'm not sure if this breaks any rules or anything, but I'll post it anyway...The RX7 got some attention in an online blog! Pictures included!
Lowered Lifestyle ® | Live Low.
Lowered Lifestyle ® | Live Low.
I bought a set of 1000cc primaries. I literally ordered it online, walked out side to get the mail...and there they were!
I still can't believe no one has bought my old turbo...I'll have some more pics soon. A lot more has happened then planned as usual.
I still can't believe no one has bought my old turbo...I'll have some more pics soon. A lot more has happened then planned as usual.
stew, i've just now read through your build thread.
i'm impressed.
also, i see you made a purchase from LMS-EFI.
Ludwig is an old friend of mine from the Louisville area. Great guy.
i'm impressed.
also, i see you made a purchase from LMS-EFI.
Ludwig is an old friend of mine from the Louisville area. Great guy.
Ludwig is the man and makes a top quality harness. I run his harness and purchased my coils through him.
The AEM coils with the the dwell times properly dialed in make a considerable difference in how the car performs. I have very aggressive ports on my car and have the idle control valve deleted, before these coils the car wouldn't idle on its own until it warmed up to around 59c. It now idles fine at 39c and pulls a additional 4"'s of vacuum at idle. The car also picked up power on the top end without changing the tune.
These coils are a miracle for these cars as far as I'm concerned; especially if you're running a heavy amount of water/meth. I personally run 550cc's of 70/30 water/meth and these coils in combination with MSD wires and NGK race plugs give no signs of breakup.
Another nice thing is that Ludwig offers the coils at a lower price then anyone else I've come across. Go with this setup, you won't regret it.
The AEM coils with the the dwell times properly dialed in make a considerable difference in how the car performs. I have very aggressive ports on my car and have the idle control valve deleted, before these coils the car wouldn't idle on its own until it warmed up to around 59c. It now idles fine at 39c and pulls a additional 4"'s of vacuum at idle. The car also picked up power on the top end without changing the tune.
These coils are a miracle for these cars as far as I'm concerned; especially if you're running a heavy amount of water/meth. I personally run 550cc's of 70/30 water/meth and these coils in combination with MSD wires and NGK race plugs give no signs of breakup.
Another nice thing is that Ludwig offers the coils at a lower price then anyone else I've come across. Go with this setup, you won't regret it.
Hopefully I get the car running in the next couple of weeks.
Then it's time to dance.
