Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
08-26-09, 06:56 AM
#3185
Well, not exactly. Voltage is still low at idle, at 12.2 to 12.4 volts, even after a thorough check of the electrical system. So I have another alt being worked on to produce more voltage (pressure) at idle. Not sure what else to do at this point.
08-27-09, 06:57 AM
#3186
So the new alternator produced the same results, low voltage at idle. Back to the basics. I am replacing the battery with a sealed unit to eliminate it as a possibility of the problem. We are then going to retest to see what is up with voltage. If bad, the mechanic will start to trace voltage draws. Strange though as amps are now under control but I guess amps can be fine (22 at idle) but voltage can still be off as in a draw somewhere?
08-27-09, 07:26 AM
#3187
So the new alternator produced the same results, low voltage at idle. Back to the basics. I am replacing the battery with a sealed unit to eliminate it as a possibility of the problem. We are then going to retest to see what is up with voltage. If bad, the mechanic will start to trace voltage draws. Strange though as amps are now under control but I guess amps can be fine (22 at idle) but voltage can still be off as in a draw somewhere?
Just thought I would mention it.
08-27-09, 12:04 PM
#3188
You've probably already dealt with this and I've just missed it somewhere in this thread, but are you still running water injection? I remember way back when you were in GA that it was causing serious ignition problems due to voltage issues -- maybe my memory is failing me?
Just thought I would mention it.
Just thought I would mention it.
09-05-09, 07:10 AM
#3190
I have been in NC the last few weeks but plan on getting down to your Dad's place to dyno the car soon. I wanted to resolve two issues before doing this though - water temps and voltage. My water temps were creeping up to over 100C and I am not happy with this so I have been trying to lower them. I have installed my undertray which has helped with highway speeds. Now temps stabilize at about 95C and don't go up. When sitting in traffic though they still creep up so I am working on a solution to suck more air through the radiator at idle. I'm looking into fabbing up a shroud to weld on the back side of the radiator that will cover the entire back of the radiator and will have holes cut in it for the fans. My research indicates this will force air from the entire surface of the radiator through the fans and in theory, should improve the cooling effects of the radiator. Past this, not sure what I can do.
On the voltage front, the car had a bad grounding problem and was drawing 55 amps at idle with no accessories on. A grounding kit reduced this to 21 amps but voltage at idle is still too low. My battery appears suspect so I have ordered a sealed XS Power unit (500 CCA) and once installed, I'll verify voltage and go from there.
When I get the above set, I'll then be back for the dyno. Reducing the amp draw on the car has now made the car pig rich again and the highest AFRs I see are 11.9 with most AFRs in the low 11s to even the 10s. And this is everywhere in the RPM and load ranges so it's much much too rich now. I guess this is because we freed up the AMP issue and the injectors are now getting proper power so much less gas is needed.
Thought I would give your Dad a break and solve these issues before seeing him again but it will be in the next few weeks that I will be back. Will have to be on a Saturday though as I start work at the Universith of North Florida this Tuesday.
You're going to be driving the coolest car on your campus.
09-07-09, 04:39 AM
#3192
Rotary Enthusiast
David a question
What is your idle speed atm? And what is your idle voltage? Some alternators do not come on at low speeds on the alternator. For instance my alternator needs to spin at above 1500 rpms to charge the battery correct. And with a diffrent pully that lowers the rpm on the alternator that might be the problem. Lets say you running a idle at 800rpm, and you have a pully that lowers the alternator rpm to about 1:1.6 you will not have more then 1280 rpms on the alternator. And i know most alternators do not charge bellow 1500 rpms.
And as you stated once you get above a certain rpm it's not a problem. So i guess the problem comes down to the fact that the speed of the alternator is too low, and that you battery get's drained too fast when at idle, and maybe AC and fans are on, and maybe a stereo system.
So i would look into that if i where you.
And to your cooling issue, duct everythng from your front to your radiator with aluminum. And make shure you have some fans that pulls alot of air. The other thing would be to get a bigger radiator if you can fit that. Or make 1 or 2 holes in your thermostat, to let more water flow by.
JT
What is your idle speed atm? And what is your idle voltage? Some alternators do not come on at low speeds on the alternator. For instance my alternator needs to spin at above 1500 rpms to charge the battery correct. And with a diffrent pully that lowers the rpm on the alternator that might be the problem. Lets say you running a idle at 800rpm, and you have a pully that lowers the alternator rpm to about 1:1.6 you will not have more then 1280 rpms on the alternator. And i know most alternators do not charge bellow 1500 rpms.
And as you stated once you get above a certain rpm it's not a problem. So i guess the problem comes down to the fact that the speed of the alternator is too low, and that you battery get's drained too fast when at idle, and maybe AC and fans are on, and maybe a stereo system.
So i would look into that if i where you.
And to your cooling issue, duct everythng from your front to your radiator with aluminum. And make shure you have some fans that pulls alot of air. The other thing would be to get a bigger radiator if you can fit that. Or make 1 or 2 holes in your thermostat, to let more water flow by.
JT
09-07-09, 08:25 AM
#3193
David a question
What is your idle speed atm? And what is your idle voltage? Some alternators do not come on at low speeds on the alternator. For instance my alternator needs to spin at above 1500 rpms to charge the battery correct. And with a diffrent pully that lowers the rpm on the alternator that might be the problem. Lets say you running a idle at 800rpm, and you have a pully that lowers the alternator rpm to about 1:1.6 you will not have more then 1280 rpms on the alternator. And i know most alternators do not charge bellow 1500 rpms.
And as you stated once you get above a certain rpm it's not a problem. So i guess the problem comes down to the fact that the speed of the alternator is too low, and that you battery get's drained too fast when at idle, and maybe AC and fans are on, and maybe a stereo system.
So i would look into that if i where you.
And to your cooling issue, duct everythng from your front to your radiator with aluminum. And make shure you have some fans that pulls alot of air. The other thing would be to get a bigger radiator if you can fit that. Or make 1 or 2 holes in your thermostat, to let more water flow by.
JT
What is your idle speed atm? And what is your idle voltage? Some alternators do not come on at low speeds on the alternator. For instance my alternator needs to spin at above 1500 rpms to charge the battery correct. And with a diffrent pully that lowers the rpm on the alternator that might be the problem. Lets say you running a idle at 800rpm, and you have a pully that lowers the alternator rpm to about 1:1.6 you will not have more then 1280 rpms on the alternator. And i know most alternators do not charge bellow 1500 rpms.
And as you stated once you get above a certain rpm it's not a problem. So i guess the problem comes down to the fact that the speed of the alternator is too low, and that you battery get's drained too fast when at idle, and maybe AC and fans are on, and maybe a stereo system.
So i would look into that if i where you.
And to your cooling issue, duct everythng from your front to your radiator with aluminum. And make shure you have some fans that pulls alot of air. The other thing would be to get a bigger radiator if you can fit that. Or make 1 or 2 holes in your thermostat, to let more water flow by.
JT
The alternator I have installed is rated at 150 amps above 3,000 RPMs and 80 amps at 1,000 RPMs. My idle is set at 1,000 RPMs so in theory I should get 80 amps available for use. I have also installed a very small alt pulley which should spin the alt faster at idle giving me more available power at idle. We have also measured the amp load at idle and it is 22 w/o accessories on and 50 max with everything on so we have plenty of available AMPs.
The problem is not AMPs, it is voltage at idle. You would think if you have plenty of AMPs, voltage (pressure) would be no problem, but not the case here. Volts drop into the low 12s with the AC and fans on and this is not acceptable. As this is my fourth alternator on the car, I would rule out the alt as the source of the problem. I would also disagree that at idle, the alt will not charge the battery. I believe it should. I am replacing the battery to eliminate this as a source of the problem and will go from there.
On the cooling side, I am going to try radiator ducting and drilling out the thermostat and go from there.
09-07-09, 09:14 AM
#3194
Rotary Enthusiast
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
The alternator I have installed is rated at 150 amps above 3,000 RPMs and 80 amps at 1,000 RPMs. My idle is set at 1,000 RPMs so in theory I should get 80 amps available for use. I have also installed a very small alt pulley which should spin the alt faster at idle giving me more available power at idle. We have also measured the amp load at idle and it is 22 w/o accessories on and 50 max with everything on so we have plenty of available AMPs.
The problem is not AMPs, it is voltage at idle. You would think if you have plenty of AMPs, voltage (pressure) would be no problem, but not the case here. Volts drop into the low 12s with the AC and fans on and this is not acceptable. As this is my fourth alternator on the car, I would rule out the alt as the source of the problem. I would also disagree that at idle, the alt will not charge the battery. I believe it should. I am replacing the battery to eliminate this as a source of the problem and will go from there.
On the cooling side, I am going to try radiator ducting and drilling out the thermostat and go from there.
The alternator I have installed is rated at 150 amps above 3,000 RPMs and 80 amps at 1,000 RPMs. My idle is set at 1,000 RPMs so in theory I should get 80 amps available for use. I have also installed a very small alt pulley which should spin the alt faster at idle giving me more available power at idle. We have also measured the amp load at idle and it is 22 w/o accessories on and 50 max with everything on so we have plenty of available AMPs.
The problem is not AMPs, it is voltage at idle. You would think if you have plenty of AMPs, voltage (pressure) would be no problem, but not the case here. Volts drop into the low 12s with the AC and fans on and this is not acceptable. As this is my fourth alternator on the car, I would rule out the alt as the source of the problem. I would also disagree that at idle, the alt will not charge the battery. I believe it should. I am replacing the battery to eliminate this as a source of the problem and will go from there.
On the cooling side, I am going to try radiator ducting and drilling out the thermostat and go from there.
Bdw what is the voltage comming out of the alternator when the voltage drops to 12v?
I changed from a 50 amp battery to a 85 amp battery and that made my volts go from arround 13 to 14 volts at idle.
JT
09-07-09, 12:13 PM
#3195
One thing it could be is the voltage sensing cablel is giving you the wrong voltage to the alternator. I moved mine from the stock harness and to where i have every singel item that draws voltage. Wich is the main power switch. So if you have a point where the alternator meets the battery and the rest of the harness, maybe you should try and put up a new bigger wire between the alternator and the main + harness. It's the top of the two small wires comming out from the alternator. You could also messure the voltage on that cable. As that should be equal to the voltage comming out from the alternator.
Bdw what is the voltage comming out of the alternator when the voltage drops to 12v?
I changed from a 50 amp battery to a 85 amp battery and that made my volts go from arround 13 to 14 volts at idle.
JT
Bdw what is the voltage comming out of the alternator when the voltage drops to 12v?
I changed from a 50 amp battery to a 85 amp battery and that made my volts go from arround 13 to 14 volts at idle.
JT
The volts out of the alternator match the volts back at the battery and both drop the same amount so I don't have a volt loss, just a drop at both the battery and at the alternator. We;ll see tomorrow if the new battery resolves the problem or not.
I don't know what you mean about an 85 amp battery. I ordered an XS Power S975 battery:
http://xspowerbatteries.com/performa...products_id=81
It has 1,600 starting amps.
09-08-09, 03:07 AM
#3196
Rotary Enthusiast
Sorry David
It's a 70 amp battery. The 70 amps means amps/hour. It just is the total amp in the battery, and the starting amp is alot higher. That is how much amp you can draw in a short period of time.
The new one you are getting is a 60 amp/hour battery, as stated as a RC60.
I use a battery called Apollo and im quite happy with it. I use there A1700 series battery.
JT
It's a 70 amp battery. The 70 amps means amps/hour. It just is the total amp in the battery, and the starting amp is alot higher. That is how much amp you can draw in a short period of time.
The new one you are getting is a 60 amp/hour battery, as stated as a RC60.
I use a battery called Apollo and im quite happy with it. I use there A1700 series battery.
JT
09-08-09, 05:39 AM
#3197
Sorry David
It's a 70 amp battery. The 70 amps means amps/hour. It just is the total amp in the battery, and the starting amp is alot higher. That is how much amp you can draw in a short period of time.
The new one you are getting is a 60 amp/hour battery, as stated as a RC60.
I use a battery called Apollo and im quite happy with it. I use there A1700 series battery.
JT
It's a 70 amp battery. The 70 amps means amps/hour. It just is the total amp in the battery, and the starting amp is alot higher. That is how much amp you can draw in a short period of time.
The new one you are getting is a 60 amp/hour battery, as stated as a RC60.
I use a battery called Apollo and im quite happy with it. I use there A1700 series battery.
JT
09-08-09, 09:20 AM
#3198
Rotary Enthusiast
But i hope you figure it out. I had the same problem with my stock alternator. It was only charging max 13.2 volts, so i put on something between the volt sensing pin and the cable to the harnes and that increased my voltage to 14.5 volts. I don't know what it looks like, but i just cut the cable in two and solderd it on. It looks like something you would put on a computer board.
JT
09-08-09, 01:23 PM
#3199
Well the voltage drops when the amps drop in the battery as well. So i guess it could be a problem with a low amp battery.
But i hope you figure it out. I had the same problem with my stock alternator. It was only charging max 13.2 volts, so i put on something between the volt sensing pin and the cable to the harnes and that increased my voltage to 14.5 volts. I don't know what it looks like, but i just cut the cable in two and solderd it on. It looks like something you would put on a computer board.
JT
But i hope you figure it out. I had the same problem with my stock alternator. It was only charging max 13.2 volts, so i put on something between the volt sensing pin and the cable to the harnes and that increased my voltage to 14.5 volts. I don't know what it looks like, but i just cut the cable in two and solderd it on. It looks like something you would put on a computer board.
JT
09-09-09, 04:18 AM
#3200
Rotary Enthusiast
From a alternator repair shop. If they know what they are doing they should be able to get you one. I think it's just a diode or something that makes the alternator think it needs to put out more volts. It fools the volt regulator.
JT
JT