Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
and i jinxed my self by saying that i dont have alt problems.. 
08-01-09, 07:01 AM
#3080
As described by prrex4ever, look for the only bolt hole that is open and not used. This where the top bolt goes. For the bottom hole, you have to remove one of the water pump bolts, the 4th from the right as I recall. You DO NOT have to remove the water pump to do this, but you do have to remove the water pump pulley. I used the filler neck pulley as leverage for this job. Put a crescent wrench on one bolt and unbolted the other with a socket wrench, letting the crescent wrench "turn" into the filler neck so it acts as a brace for the socket wrench. You also have to remove the power accessory belt to remove the alt belt. Once you remove the water pulley and the two belts you'll expose the water pump bolts. Look at the directions and you'll see which one to remove (use the new bolt included with the kit to screw the idler pulley into the water pump but make sure to use the washer included with the kit for perfect alignment if you no longer have the oil pump meter bracket here). Why? So the pulleys are all aligned.
Call me if you need some advice
I'll be sitting in a car on the way back home.
08-01-09, 09:40 AM
#3083
Yep, this is how it works. I can take more pics for you but not until tomorrow as I am in NC. The pics in the directions are pretty clear.
As described by prrex4ever, look for the only bolt hole that is open and not used. This where the top bolt goes. For the bottom hole, you have to remove one of the water pump bolts, the 4th from the right as I recall. You DO NOT have to remove the water pump to do this, but you do have to remove the water pump pulley. I used the filler neck pulley as leverage for this job. Put a crescent wrench on one bolt and unbolted the other with a socket wrench, letting the crescent wrench "turn" into the filler neck so it acts as a brace for the socket wrench. You also have to remove the power accessory belt to remove the alt belt. Once you remove the water pulley and the two belts you'll expose the water pump bolts. Look at the directions and you'll see which one to remove (use the new bolt included with the kit to screw the idler pulley into the water pump but make sure to use the washer included with the kit for perfect alignment if you no longer have the oil pump meter bracket here). Why? So the pulleys are all aligned.
Call me if you need some advice I'll be sitting in a car on the way back home.
As described by prrex4ever, look for the only bolt hole that is open and not used. This where the top bolt goes. For the bottom hole, you have to remove one of the water pump bolts, the 4th from the right as I recall. You DO NOT have to remove the water pump to do this, but you do have to remove the water pump pulley. I used the filler neck pulley as leverage for this job. Put a crescent wrench on one bolt and unbolted the other with a socket wrench, letting the crescent wrench "turn" into the filler neck so it acts as a brace for the socket wrench. You also have to remove the power accessory belt to remove the alt belt. Once you remove the water pulley and the two belts you'll expose the water pump bolts. Look at the directions and you'll see which one to remove (use the new bolt included with the kit to screw the idler pulley into the water pump but make sure to use the washer included with the kit for perfect alignment if you no longer have the oil pump meter bracket here). Why? So the pulleys are all aligned.
Call me if you need some advice
I'll be sitting in a car on the way back home.thanks dave, you are always so helpful. so did you end up fixing the alternator problem? how is the voltage now?
08-01-09, 09:46 AM
#3084
If all goes according to plan (and it rarely does) I'll be back at Kilo's this week to dyno the car. I'll let you know when and maybe we can get together for lunch or something on the way back to Jax.
08-01-09, 09:48 AM
#3085
the reason why i'm asking is because i had to cut a little piece of my water pump in order to fit my big turbo and im just making sure i can use this pulley before i order it.
thanks dave, you are always so helpful. so did you end up fixing the alternator problem? how is the voltage now?
thanks dave, you are always so helpful. so did you end up fixing the alternator problem? how is the voltage now?
On the electrical front, won't know until tomorrow if the issue is resolved. I'm getting ready to leave NC now and won't get back to the car until tomorrow.
08-02-09, 07:45 AM
#3091
I think it will be okay.
08-02-09, 04:07 PM
#3092
Well today was a comedy of errors on the alternator front so I am regrouping for tomorrow. The new alternator came with a larger pulley so my alt belt will not fit. I tried to swap the pulleys but the post on the new alt is not as long as the other alt so I am not comfortable the threads will hold the nut. So I bought a new belt but it turns out it is too long and gets way too loose when heated up. Can't adjust it anymore so I am going to buy a shorter belt tomorrow.
Grrr...
Grrr...
08-03-09, 03:01 PM
#3093
Okay, so got the new alternator on the car and took it out for a spin. Voltage was holding steady in the 13s (with AC on) until about 30 minutes into the test drive. Noted at 3,000 RPMs voltage dropped to 12.6 and at idle, down to 11.8. Took the car over to my automotive buddies and they hooked it up to the battery/alt tester - both tested out fine. They then noted at idle with no accessories on the car was pulling about 45 or so AMPs which they claim is much too high. They work on street customs and said they've never seen one at idle above 20 AMPs.
So, my question is, is this normal for an FD? I have two denso fuel pumps, six MSD coils, and the Microtech, but at idle what else would be running? Some ignition stuff? Dash lights? Would this take me up to 45 AMPs? FYI - it's not the radiator fans. When these kicked on, AMPs went to 80 at idle. And the AC was not on either.
In the meantime, the auto shop is checking out the grounds on the car. They're regrounding the battery with 1 gauge wire to the alternator as it is currently grounded to the chassis right under the battery in the bin. I also have a ground kit coming in on Thursday and they'll add this in the system per Damon's wiring diagram. If this doesn't solve the problem, they'll then go circuit by circuit to see which one is pulling the load.
That is, unless 45 AMPs at idle is normal. What do you think?
So, my question is, is this normal for an FD? I have two denso fuel pumps, six MSD coils, and the Microtech, but at idle what else would be running? Some ignition stuff? Dash lights? Would this take me up to 45 AMPs? FYI - it's not the radiator fans. When these kicked on, AMPs went to 80 at idle. And the AC was not on either.
In the meantime, the auto shop is checking out the grounds on the car. They're regrounding the battery with 1 gauge wire to the alternator as it is currently grounded to the chassis right under the battery in the bin. I also have a ground kit coming in on Thursday and they'll add this in the system per Damon's wiring diagram. If this doesn't solve the problem, they'll then go circuit by circuit to see which one is pulling the load.
That is, unless 45 AMPs at idle is normal. What do you think?
08-03-09, 05:43 PM
#3094
45 amps is over 500 watts, which seems like a rather high load. You might want to investigate the ignition amps, which tend to use a lot of juice, depending on which ones you have. A clamp on amp probe meter should make locating the offending load(s) fairly easy, if not interesting.
For the grounds: The battery grounded at the seat belt anchor bolt should be fine. You can run the original ground wire from the underhood battery over to the alternator for an auxiliary ground which works very well and reduces voltage drop significantly. Upgrade the ground connection at the rear of the UIM to firewall and you should be set.
Also keep in mind that there is a temperature gradient applied in the voltage regulator which reduces the charging voltage as the ambient and the alternator warm up.
For the grounds: The battery grounded at the seat belt anchor bolt should be fine. You can run the original ground wire from the underhood battery over to the alternator for an auxiliary ground which works very well and reduces voltage drop significantly. Upgrade the ground connection at the rear of the UIM to firewall and you should be set.
Also keep in mind that there is a temperature gradient applied in the voltage regulator which reduces the charging voltage as the ambient and the alternator warm up.
08-04-09, 03:53 AM
#3095
Rotary Enthusiast
45 amps is alot David, but i would not be supprised that the car will pull that much amp at idle. You have alot of stuff drawing power.
Will the voltage drop to 11 something when u rev the car to 3000rpm or higher when standing still? Or will it stay normal. My normal voltage when ideling is 14.1 volt. And goes up to about 14.5 volt when the rpm increases.
And you have a brand new OEM alternator now right? I would have it dynoed and checked for problems. Any alternator shop will be able to test the alternator if there is a problem with it. Now the stock one is said to deliver 100 amps, but it might not deliver that amount once it gets heated up by the engine. Did the problem go away when you had that 200 amps alternator?
It could be as simple as everything you got is pulling too much power. And therfor not suplying enough power and you start to drain from the battery. I will try and check and see how much my car draws next time i start my 4 rotor. Mine should pull about the same amps as yours on idle.
JT
Will the voltage drop to 11 something when u rev the car to 3000rpm or higher when standing still? Or will it stay normal. My normal voltage when ideling is 14.1 volt. And goes up to about 14.5 volt when the rpm increases.
And you have a brand new OEM alternator now right? I would have it dynoed and checked for problems. Any alternator shop will be able to test the alternator if there is a problem with it. Now the stock one is said to deliver 100 amps, but it might not deliver that amount once it gets heated up by the engine. Did the problem go away when you had that 200 amps alternator?
It could be as simple as everything you got is pulling too much power. And therfor not suplying enough power and you start to drain from the battery. I will try and check and see how much my car draws next time i start my 4 rotor. Mine should pull about the same amps as yours on idle.
JT
08-04-09, 06:52 AM
#3096
45 amps is alot David, but i would not be supprised that the car will pull that much amp at idle. You have alot of stuff drawing power.
Will the voltage drop to 11 something when u rev the car to 3000rpm or higher when standing still? Or will it stay normal. My normal voltage when ideling is 14.1 volt. And goes up to about 14.5 volt when the rpm increases.
And you have a brand new OEM alternator now right? I would have it dynoed and checked for problems. Any alternator shop will be able to test the alternator if there is a problem with it. Now the stock one is said to deliver 100 amps, but it might not deliver that amount once it gets heated up by the engine. Did the problem go away when you had that 200 amps alternator?
It could be as simple as everything you got is pulling too much power. And therfor not suplying enough power and you start to drain from the battery. I will try and check and see how much my car draws next time i start my 4 rotor. Mine should pull about the same amps as yours on idle.
JT
Will the voltage drop to 11 something when u rev the car to 3000rpm or higher when standing still? Or will it stay normal. My normal voltage when ideling is 14.1 volt. And goes up to about 14.5 volt when the rpm increases.
And you have a brand new OEM alternator now right? I would have it dynoed and checked for problems. Any alternator shop will be able to test the alternator if there is a problem with it. Now the stock one is said to deliver 100 amps, but it might not deliver that amount once it gets heated up by the engine. Did the problem go away when you had that 200 amps alternator?
It could be as simple as everything you got is pulling too much power. And therfor not suplying enough power and you start to drain from the battery. I will try and check and see how much my car draws next time i start my 4 rotor. Mine should pull about the same amps as yours on idle.
JT
The first thing I did yesterday was have the alternator and the battery checked. They both tested fine.To answer your question regarding if the voltage increases with RPMs, the answer is yes, it does, but I did notice a problem. When I started the test drive yesterday, at 3,000 RPMs, the voltage was above 14 with no accessories on and 13.8 with accessories on. This is fine. Yet, about 25 minutes into the drive, voltage had dropped to 12.8 at 3,000 RPMs and 11.8 at idle. This is why I took the car into the shop for trouble shooting. Speedoflight mentioned heat will negative affect voltage thru the regulator, but this much? This brings me back to the thought that idle amps are just too high.
The alternator is a 150 amp alternator. At idle, it produces a little above 80 amps and at 3,000 rpms, about 130 or so amps. At 4,000 rpms and above, if I recall correctly, it's at 150 amps. I think these are pretty good numbers for an alternator and I believe the stock alt has much less capacity than this.
So, I could be way off here, but I still think idle amps are much too high. Here is my list of what is on at idle:
- Microtech ECU
- Ignition
- Dash lights
- (6) MSD Blaster SS coils
- (2) Denso fuel pumps
What I have found out so far is that each of the Denso fuel pumps should consume no more than 3.8 amps at idle (up to 16 amps at full throttle) so this accounts for 7.6 amps max of my 45 amp total. I have a phone call into the MSD guys to find out about the Blaster coils as they are the most likely power hog. We'll see if the above adds up to 45 amps but I doubt it will.
Tow other interesting notes that may or may not apply here, I now have a humming in my satellite radio that I never had before. Second, with the car shut off yesterday, I was able to turn the fans back on at ignition position I. When I turned the fans back off, the next time they wouldn't come on until I turned the ignition to position II.
08-04-09, 03:54 PM
#3097
I left my PLX gauges off the list of items that require power at idle: Here is what I have so far, including the amps each use at idle:
- Microtech ECU
- Ignition
- Dash lights
- (6) MSD Blaster SS coils
- (2) Denso fuel pumps - 7.6 amps
- (8) PLX gauges - 4.0 amps
So, so far I am at 11.6 amps total, a far cry from the 45 amps at idle the car is drawing. I have an email into Microtech asking how much the LTX-12S draws as well as the MDS coils. The MSD guys said the Microtech controls the amps sent to each unit so I needed to ask them. They did say though that they thought max usage at any one time would not exceed 10 amps and they would be surprised if it was this high so it seems very likely I have a bad ground or shorting connection somewhere in the system.
- Microtech ECU
- Ignition
- Dash lights
- (6) MSD Blaster SS coils
- (2) Denso fuel pumps - 7.6 amps
- (8) PLX gauges - 4.0 amps
So, so far I am at 11.6 amps total, a far cry from the 45 amps at idle the car is drawing. I have an email into Microtech asking how much the LTX-12S draws as well as the MDS coils. The MSD guys said the Microtech controls the amps sent to each unit so I needed to ask them. They did say though that they thought max usage at any one time would not exceed 10 amps and they would be surprised if it was this high so it seems very likely I have a bad ground or shorting connection somewhere in the system.
08-05-09, 10:20 AM
#3098
The stock Mazda alternator is rated at 90 amps. My upgrades put out between 140-150 amps. However as with all of these alternators, they only apply the increased output when there is load put on them. My alternator should be well within the capacity of your car. What I think is happening is something is drawing way too much power or causing a huge voltage drop. When you first drive the car you start off with a fully charged battery. Because of the draw the alternator can't keep up and after driving 20-30 min the car begins to draw off the battery. Or something in the wiring or other electrical component gets hot or moves and something changes.
08-05-09, 11:01 AM
#3099
The stock Mazda alternator is rated at 90 amps. My upgrades put out between 140-150 amps. However as with all of these alternators, they only apply the increased output when there is load put on them. My alternator should be well within the capacity of your car. What I think is happening is something is drawing way too much power or causing a huge voltage drop. When you first drive the car you start off with a fully charged battery. Because of the draw the alternator can't keep up and after driving 20-30 min the car begins to draw off the battery. Or something in the wiring or other electrical component gets hot or moves and something changes.
But, what should the normal amp draw be? How about measuring one of your cars and let me know. I understand it won't be a direct comp but it would be a good start. I really don't have that much stuff running at idle (see above list) and it would be great going back to the shop that is tracking this down to give them what the norm should be.
08-05-09, 02:22 PM
#3100
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Just a shot in the dark here: your problem may be related to your body wiring harness, which IIRC was hacked by Wolf many years ago and although it was supposedly 'fixed,' it wasn't replaced with a new harness.