Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
08-05-09, 02:27 PM
#3101
I am confident 45 amps at idle with no accessories is too much but I wish someone (you?
) would test the amp load at idle so I have a base comparison.Need this resolved so I can go to the Chris Carlisi event next week. Want to show you my new improved bling!
08-05-09, 02:29 PM
#3102
Rotary Enthusiast
David i just checked how much amps my car draws at idle. It's at 39.8 amps, and increases to about 40 amps at 3000 rpm
Now i should say i will probably have less electrical gear then you. The only thing that was on, was the Inovative LM1 af gauge and 7 gauges, pluss the water pump and fuel pump.
I don't have CDI coils yet, so not alot of draw there. So i guess you MSD coils are pulling alot of amps.
JT
Now i should say i will probably have less electrical gear then you. The only thing that was on, was the Inovative LM1 af gauge and 7 gauges, pluss the water pump and fuel pump.
I don't have CDI coils yet, so not alot of draw there. So i guess you MSD coils are pulling alot of amps.
JT
08-05-09, 09:24 PM
#3104
David i just checked how much amps my car draws at idle. It's at 39.8 amps, and increases to about 40 amps at 3000 rpm
Now i should say i will probably have less electrical gear then you. The only thing that was on, was the Inovative LM1 af gauge and 7 gauges, pluss the water pump and fuel pump.
I don't have CDI coils yet, so not alot of draw there. So i guess you MSD coils are pulling alot of amps.
JT
Now i should say i will probably have less electrical gear then you. The only thing that was on, was the Inovative LM1 af gauge and 7 gauges, pluss the water pump and fuel pump.
I don't have CDI coils yet, so not alot of draw there. So i guess you MSD coils are pulling alot of amps.
JT
08-06-09, 01:18 AM
#3106
Rotary Enthusiast
08-06-09, 07:35 AM
#3108
Rotary Enthusiast
I had a NSA alternator before, but for some reason it started charging at 18-19 amps. Wich is way too much. So i had to put in the stock one. Im going to send the alternator to a alternator shop and have them check it out and maybe fix it.
Now with the amp draws, i think the water pump is pulling alot and the fuel pump. As they are quite big. The fuel pump req a 30 amp fuse so i guess it's pulling 10-20 amps at full speed. And the water pump pulls 10 amps. So i don't think im far off on what it pulls.
But im going to put up some more grouding wires. Going to put one up between the battery and the engine.
JT
08-06-09, 07:45 AM
#3109
David i checked how much amps my fans pull. They only pull about 8 amps each at full speed. So that's a total of 16 amps. So not that much.
I had a NSA alternator before, but for some reason it started charging at 18-19 amps. Wich is way too much. So i had to put in the stock one. Im going to send the alternator to a alternator shop and have them check it out and maybe fix it.
Now with the amp draws, i think the water pump is pulling alot and the fuel pump. As they are quite big. The fuel pump req a 30 amp fuse so i guess it's pulling 10-20 amps at full speed. And the water pump pulls 10 amps. So i don't think im far off on what it pulls.
But im going to put up some more grouding wires. Going to put one up between the battery and the engine.
JT
I had a NSA alternator before, but for some reason it started charging at 18-19 amps. Wich is way too much. So i had to put in the stock one. Im going to send the alternator to a alternator shop and have them check it out and maybe fix it.
Now with the amp draws, i think the water pump is pulling alot and the fuel pump. As they are quite big. The fuel pump req a 30 amp fuse so i guess it's pulling 10-20 amps at full speed. And the water pump pulls 10 amps. So i don't think im far off on what it pulls.
But im going to put up some more grouding wires. Going to put one up between the battery and the engine.
JT
It appears my issue is the alternator is getting overwhelmed at idle and the battery is being drained and the alt is going crazy trying to compensate. A stock alternator is good for 100 amps BUT this is at peak RPMS which is above 3,000. At idle, I would guess it is putting out 60 amps or less. Mine puts out 80 amps at idle but I use more than this when the fans come on the car, causing the problems I have noted in voltage drop. And if I were to turn on the AC and use the headlights, this would overwhelm the system.
08-06-09, 08:25 AM
#3110
Rotary Enthusiast
So you have an electric water pump? Nice. I could see your fuel pump would pull that much at max speed. My fans are pulling about 35 amps total, or 17.5 amp each which is high but not crazy. So, using your numbers, I would subtract your water pump as I don't have an electric one and I would be in the 28 amp range at idle which would be fine, although I would think I would be in the low 20 amp range for what I have on the car. From what I can tell, the MSD coils do not require a lot of amps at idle (1 amp or so) and I think the Microtech ECU uses under 5 amps so my total usage at idle should 20 amps or so. I'm more than double this so I think I have a ground issue or a short somewhere.
It appears my issue is the alternator is getting overwhelmed at idle and the battery is being drained and the alt is going crazy trying to compensate. A stock alternator is good for 100 amps BUT this is at peak RPMS which is above 3,000. At idle, I would guess it is putting out 60 amps or less. Mine puts out 80 amps at idle but I use more than this when the fans come on the car, causing the problems I have noted in voltage drop. And if I were to turn on the AC and use the headlights, this would overwhelm the system.
It appears my issue is the alternator is getting overwhelmed at idle and the battery is being drained and the alt is going crazy trying to compensate. A stock alternator is good for 100 amps BUT this is at peak RPMS which is above 3,000. At idle, I would guess it is putting out 60 amps or less. Mine puts out 80 amps at idle but I use more than this when the fans come on the car, causing the problems I have noted in voltage drop. And if I were to turn on the AC and use the headlights, this would overwhelm the system.
I don't think you have a short issue. Then your car would drain the battery over a short period of time. But i would check to see if anything is pulling too much amps. Check the cabling to the gauges as well, as the rest of hardware connected to the car. And plug out any non essential equiptment.
But electrical problems is a pain. I don't like it my self at all.
But shouldent a decent car electrician be able to find the problem?
JT
08-06-09, 08:50 AM
#3111
What i would do if i where you is simply try and see where all the amps are going when it's ideling. See if something is pulling way to much. It could be as simple as a faulty hardware.
I don't think you have a short issue. Then your car would drain the battery over a short period of time. But i would check to see if anything is pulling too much amps. Check the cabling to the gauges as well, as the rest of hardware connected to the car. And plug out any non essential equiptment.
But electrical problems is a pain. I don't like it my self at all.
But shouldent a decent car electrician be able to find the problem?
JT
I don't think you have a short issue. Then your car would drain the battery over a short period of time. But i would check to see if anything is pulling too much amps. Check the cabling to the gauges as well, as the rest of hardware connected to the car. And plug out any non essential equiptment.
But electrical problems is a pain. I don't like it my self at all.
But shouldent a decent car electrician be able to find the problem?
JT
I wanted to know the bast amps at idle so I could see if I am out of the norm before they begin doing the above.
08-06-09, 07:02 PM
#3112
Hmm just a thought. Maybe if the grounding solution doesn't work, maybe you could install a capacitor (like the large ones you would have to get for a hi powered car amp)? I'm not exactly sure how those things work but I think they are suppose to aid the alternator in big power surges at idle situations to keep the large amp from overpowering it (dimming lights ect). I mean who says they have to only be used for amplifiers?
08-06-09, 09:11 PM
#3113
Hmm just a thought. Maybe if the grounding solution doesn't work, maybe you could install a capacitor (like the large ones you would have to get for a hi powered car amp)? I'm not exactly sure how those things work but I think they are suppose to aid the alternator in big power surges at idle situations to keep the large amp from overpowering it (dimming lights ect). I mean who says they have to only be used for amplifiers?
. Sorry, couldn't resist. Sorry David...
08-06-09, 09:19 PM
#3114
Hmm just a thought. Maybe if the grounding solution doesn't work, maybe you could install a capacitor (like the large ones you would have to get for a hi powered car amp)? I'm not exactly sure how those things work but I think they are suppose to aid the alternator in big power surges at idle situations to keep the large amp from overpowering it (dimming lights ect). I mean who says they have to only be used for amplifiers?
The grounds came in and I spent some time at the shop reviewing the situation. The shop is confident they will quickly isolate and fix the issue so we will see. The Hyper Ground Kit FYI is really nice quality. Can't beat the ground the shop installed from my battery to the alternator though - it's 2 "aught" wiring. It was explained to me that you count down in gauge and once you reach zero you then go to "aught". That baby is really, really thick.
08-07-09, 09:08 AM
#3116
I had a similar issue with my FD after removing the engine for engine bay painting. I think some of the ground points in my car probably got painted.
I added two additional grounds and the problem was resolved. Hopefully the grounding kit will do the trick for you.
I added two additional grounds and the problem was resolved. Hopefully the grounding kit will do the trick for you.
08-07-09, 05:34 PM
#3118
And the verdict is: Ground Problem!
Installed the Hyper ground kit (high quality BTW) and amps at idle are now 22! With the fans on, amps go to 44, well within where I think the car should be.
What I need to test now is voltage on the car. Am I still getting a voltage drop at idle or not? I would assume I should be no lower than 12.8 volts with AC or other accessories on at idle but we will see tomorrow morning.
Installed the Hyper ground kit (high quality BTW) and amps at idle are now 22! With the fans on, amps go to 44, well within where I think the car should be.
What I need to test now is voltage on the car. Am I still getting a voltage drop at idle or not? I would assume I should be no lower than 12.8 volts with AC or other accessories on at idle but we will see tomorrow morning.
08-07-09, 06:00 PM
#3119
And the verdict is: Ground Problem!
Installed the Hyper ground kit (high quality BTW) and amps at idle are now 22! With the fans on, amps go to 44, well within where I think the car should be.
What I need to test now is voltage on the car. Am I still getting a voltage drop at idle or not? I would assume I should be no lower than 12.8 volts with AC or other accessories on at idle but we will see tomorrow morning.
Installed the Hyper ground kit (high quality BTW) and amps at idle are now 22! With the fans on, amps go to 44, well within where I think the car should be.
What I need to test now is voltage on the car. Am I still getting a voltage drop at idle or not? I would assume I should be no lower than 12.8 volts with AC or other accessories on at idle but we will see tomorrow morning.
08-07-09, 06:00 PM
#3120
And the verdict is: Ground Problem!
Installed the Hyper ground kit (high quality BTW) and amps at idle are now 22! With the fans on, amps go to 44, well within where I think the car should be.
What I need to test now is voltage on the car. Am I still getting a voltage drop at idle or not? I would assume I should be no lower than 12.8 volts with AC or other accessories on at idle but we will see tomorrow morning.
Installed the Hyper ground kit (high quality BTW) and amps at idle are now 22! With the fans on, amps go to 44, well within where I think the car should be.
What I need to test now is voltage on the car. Am I still getting a voltage drop at idle or not? I would assume I should be no lower than 12.8 volts with AC or other accessories on at idle but we will see tomorrow morning.
08-08-09, 07:28 AM
#3124
So will you let me in on the heat temp fix? Would love to know what you did.
08-08-09, 07:33 AM
#3125
So, now that the car seems closer to being fixed, will it require any retuning or tweaking since it was initially tuned when the problem existed? Just curious as to whether this may have had an effect on your fuel maps? Good luck David. Sorting out problems is so much fun, isn't it??
Regardless, I am going to head on down to Kilo soon anyway to have the car dyno'd and we'll verify everything is in tune then.
As an aside, the mechanic that installed the grounds yesterday took the car out for a "test" drive. When I showed up to get the car, he was all smiles, saying the car was probably the fastest car he had driven. Said he punched it to about 50% throttle and the wheels broke loose (all on a test, back road, I've been on it with them). He couldn't believe the car was in low boost (13 PSI) when he did this