save the whales, SAVE YOUR MOTOR
02-23-10, 03:40 PM
#251
Bit of info:
-OMP still working and with a mild injection increase via pfc
-Twin Power Ignition with 4x NGK R7420 11-heat plugs
-Base Map (10:1 in boost and high rpm vacuum areas, 15-17:1 freeway cruise)
-10psi
-boost activated water injection (175cc pretwins, 350cc greddy elbow)
Ok, 1oz per gallon using tcw3 havoline 2 cycle caused my wideband to stop working, the car to missfire randomly and eventually wet fowling the plugs. I had to clean heavy carbon deposits from the plugs.
Refilled without premix and now on the second tank the wideband is working again and the missfires are gone...
-OMP still working and with a mild injection increase via pfc
-Twin Power Ignition with 4x NGK R7420 11-heat plugs
-Base Map (10:1 in boost and high rpm vacuum areas, 15-17:1 freeway cruise)
-10psi
-boost activated water injection (175cc pretwins, 350cc greddy elbow)
Ok, 1oz per gallon using tcw3 havoline 2 cycle caused my wideband to stop working, the car to missfire randomly and eventually wet fowling the plugs. I had to clean heavy carbon deposits from the plugs.
Refilled without premix and now on the second tank the wideband is working again and the missfires are gone...
02-23-10, 04:48 PM
#252
On flats
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^^^
Looks like you could make a couple bucks fabbing replica lines for TT cars. Hint hint.
What would be super cool is if somebody could figure out how to get a single external 2-stroke oil supply to inject as the MOP does, AND into the fuel supply near the manifold, so you'd never have to manually add oil to the gas, and it wouldn't potentially gum up your fuel pump, tank, or filter.
I'd buy that.
Looks like you could make a couple bucks fabbing replica lines for TT cars. Hint hint.
What would be super cool is if somebody could figure out how to get a single external 2-stroke oil supply to inject as the MOP does, AND into the fuel supply near the manifold, so you'd never have to manually add oil to the gas, and it wouldn't potentially gum up your fuel pump, tank, or filter.
I'd buy that.
Now, would the amount that would find its way to the tank/pump/filter be enough to worry about in reality? Only one way to find out.
02-23-10, 04:53 PM
#253
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Bit of info:
-OMP still working and with a mild injection increase via pfc
-Twin Power Ignition with 4x NGK R7420 11-heat plugs
-Base Map (10:1 in boost and high rpm vacuum areas, 15-17:1 freeway cruise)
-10psi
-boost activated water injection (175cc pretwins, 350cc greddy elbow)
Ok, 1oz per gallon using tcw3 havoline 2 cycle caused my wideband to stop working, the car to missfire randomly and eventually wet fowling the plugs. I had to clean heavy carbon deposits from the plugs.
Refilled without premix and now on the second tank the wideband is working again and the missfires are gone...
-OMP still working and with a mild injection increase via pfc
-Twin Power Ignition with 4x NGK R7420 11-heat plugs
-Base Map (10:1 in boost and high rpm vacuum areas, 15-17:1 freeway cruise)
-10psi
-boost activated water injection (175cc pretwins, 350cc greddy elbow)
Ok, 1oz per gallon using tcw3 havoline 2 cycle caused my wideband to stop working, the car to missfire randomly and eventually wet fowling the plugs. I had to clean heavy carbon deposits from the plugs.
Refilled without premix and now on the second tank the wideband is working again and the missfires are gone...
I'm running a similar setup and had breakup problems with those plugs and that level of premix. At 7000 to 7500 rpm the car would go from WOT hard acceleration to a sudden jolt, it felt like I was stepping hard on the brakes.
I've since moved to ~1/2 ounce per gallon and have had no issues since.
02-24-10, 11:08 AM
#256
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Great idea to run 2 cycle oil, but I wouldn’t give up on the OMP.
The problem with premix is that it is the same ratio all the time. Even though more fuel equals more oil the ratio should increase exponentially at full throttle and high boost.
Mazda did a study, (we don’t give them enough credit), where they embedded temp probes in the apex seal to test for the proper amount of oil. Read as sufficient oil vs. least carbon build-up.
This is what our oil injection map should look like. Check out the electronically controlled type below. It should look familiar.
Barry
The problem with premix is that it is the same ratio all the time. Even though more fuel equals more oil the ratio should increase exponentially at full throttle and high boost.
Mazda did a study, (we don’t give them enough credit), where they embedded temp probes in the apex seal to test for the proper amount of oil. Read as sufficient oil vs. least carbon build-up.
This is what our oil injection map should look like. Check out the electronically controlled type below. It should look familiar.
Barry
02-25-10, 10:52 AM
#258
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Two stroke MX bikes, snowmobiles, and waverunners have used it for decades under extreme conditions. In fact, GP1200R racers always disconnect the oil metering pump because pre-mix is the only 100% reliable solution.
02-25-10, 11:47 AM
#259
Great idea to run 2 cycle oil, but I wouldn’t give up on the OMP.
The problem with premix is that it is the same ratio all the time. Even though more fuel equals more oil the ratio should increase exponentially at full throttle and high boost.
Mazda did a study, (we don’t give them enough credit), where they embedded temp probes in the apex seal to test for the proper amount of oil. Read as sufficient oil vs. least carbon build-up.
This is what our oil injection map should look like. Check out the electronically controlled type below. It should look familiar.
Barry
The problem with premix is that it is the same ratio all the time. Even though more fuel equals more oil the ratio should increase exponentially at full throttle and high boost.
Mazda did a study, (we don’t give them enough credit), where they embedded temp probes in the apex seal to test for the proper amount of oil. Read as sufficient oil vs. least carbon build-up.
This is what our oil injection map should look like. Check out the electronically controlled type below. It should look familiar.
Barry
02-25-10, 01:40 PM
#260
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
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wow 250+ posts... it's not that difficult. you have two choices as to what to feed your motor. here they are:
lug your motor, don't run cleansing AI, and feed it the dirty stuff and you end up w a rotor such as this one which has only 22,000 miles.
unfortunately that was the good rotor... here's the other rotor with it's apex seal which is currently residing in a self-made groove... in the rotor face
o k, so you don't lug your motor... here are two rotors from a 24,000 mile R1...
not lugged. while they look alot better than the other rotors... they look butt ugly to me.
there's no way i would want a motor in such a state. bad things are going on inside.
the good news is it doesn't have to be this way. if you lose the 4 cycle carbon
filled crankcase oil, and run AI your rotor will look like this...
of course it isn't just about rotors... here's what happened to the rotor
housing, currently listing for $700 per.
here are my housings after a year of cranking out 500 hp
as an added bonus my apex seals aren't part of the rotor..
springs are great heat indicators, note even without the cooling effect of crankcase oil (humor) how nice the arch remains along w the uncleaned spotless corner seal
my conclusions:
stop poisoning your motor w crankcase oil. you are fine retaining the EOP if you wish, just adapt it to using 2 cycle oil.
premix. 1/2 oz DD, 1 oz for right foot on the floor stuff.
run AI.
have fun and excercise your horses.
hc
lug your motor, don't run cleansing AI, and feed it the dirty stuff and you end up w a rotor such as this one which has only 22,000 miles.
unfortunately that was the good rotor... here's the other rotor with it's apex seal which is currently residing in a self-made groove... in the rotor face
o k, so you don't lug your motor... here are two rotors from a 24,000 mile R1...
not lugged. while they look alot better than the other rotors... they look butt ugly to me.
there's no way i would want a motor in such a state. bad things are going on inside.
the good news is it doesn't have to be this way. if you lose the 4 cycle carbon
filled crankcase oil, and run AI your rotor will look like this...
of course it isn't just about rotors... here's what happened to the rotor
housing, currently listing for $700 per.
here are my housings after a year of cranking out 500 hp
as an added bonus my apex seals aren't part of the rotor..
springs are great heat indicators, note even without the cooling effect of crankcase oil (humor) how nice the arch remains along w the uncleaned spotless corner seal
my conclusions:
stop poisoning your motor w crankcase oil. you are fine retaining the EOP if you wish, just adapt it to using 2 cycle oil.
premix. 1/2 oz DD, 1 oz for right foot on the floor stuff.
run AI.
have fun and excercise your horses.
hc
02-25-10, 03:37 PM
#263
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Would be interesting to know what the contribution of AI was to this result
Oh, and Howard, whales are not currently used to produce two stroke or four stroke lubrication products as far as I know
03-02-10, 11:42 PM
#264
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I now that my procedure will be rejected. But I am currently and have been runing premix with stock management for a while now here is how to do it, it may sound dangerous, but it's not :
The only thing you have to do is to block the two banjo bolts that drive the dirty crankcase oil trought the feed line that go in the oil injectors. Just remove those two bolts (that have an empty core that drives the oil) and replace them with to same size/same tread regular bolts. the OMP will still be wired on and the oil will not pass
I now shall answer the comment that I'll get : No, the pump will not surge and no oil pressure will blow things from the inside. This pump have a rediculous debit, your lungs are !WAY! more powerfull when blowing through a straw (know that human lungs can barely blow a single PSI of air).
Believe me or not, this works...and works great
The only thing you have to do is to block the two banjo bolts that drive the dirty crankcase oil trought the feed line that go in the oil injectors. Just remove those two bolts (that have an empty core that drives the oil) and replace them with to same size/same tread regular bolts. the OMP will still be wired on and the oil will not pass
I now shall answer the comment that I'll get : No, the pump will not surge and no oil pressure will blow things from the inside. This pump have a rediculous debit, your lungs are !WAY! more powerfull when blowing through a straw (know that human lungs can barely blow a single PSI of air).
Believe me or not, this works...and works great
03-03-10, 07:58 AM
#265
03-03-10, 12:46 PM
#266
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Or you could block off the engine oil supply and have the computer controlled pump inject 2 cycle oil.
You could also add a low-oil level light.
Barry
You could also add a low-oil level light.
Barry
03-03-10, 04:26 PM
#269
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
03-03-10, 09:27 PM
#272
This is an elegant solution and better than the RA adapter. That adapter was a headache due to interference with the stock twins oil return line. But for this you would need to mill a groove for another o-ring corresponding to the one on the OMP or you're going to get oil leaks.
I saw one solution where a guy did something like this but with a second o-ring to prevent oil leaks.
I saw one solution where a guy did something like this but with a second o-ring to prevent oil leaks.
03-03-10, 11:04 PM
#273
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1) where to put the reservoir
2) what happens when your pump fails and you're not aware of it, or a line gets pinched or fails....bye bye motor
again, there is a reason all two stroke racers delete pumps like this and pre-mix: zero possibility of failure...is it really worth saving 15 seconds at the pump? keeping it simple always wins in terms of reliability
03-04-10, 12:46 AM
#275
This is an elegant solution and better than the RA adapter. That adapter was a headache due to interference with the stock twins oil return line. But for this you would need to mill a groove for another o-ring corresponding to the one on the OMP or you're going to get oil leaks.
I saw one solution where a guy did something like this but with a second o-ring to prevent oil leaks.
I saw one solution where a guy did something like this but with a second o-ring to prevent oil leaks.