grimple1

iTrader: (1)

Just got a response from Idemitsu via emal:


"The Idemitsu Racing Rotary Fuel Lube is meant to be used when the Onboard Metering Pump (OMP) has been removed. The standard recommendation is ½ ounce per gallon of gasoline. With a stock engine, this is probably the correct ratio.

Anecdotal evidence from racers suggests that the higher the horsepower, the more premix they run. Most of the racers run about an ounce per gallon. Although one guy who up rated his engine from 400+ BHP to around 550 + BHP told me he planned to run an ounce and a half per gallon.

I hope you find this information useful.

Best Regards,

Scott Shiotsu

Idemitsu Lubricants America Corporation"



It sounds like from Idemitsu's experience that modified engines should be running MORE than the 1/2oz recommendation. Where as stock engines should be in the 1/2 oz area.

I think I'm going with 1 oz per gallon for anything not stock. It's likely that the 1/2 oz would cover most applications but it's only 1/2 oz more to hit the 1oz mark. What could it hurt?

MOBEONER

iTrader: (18)

OKOKOK. after reading 7 pages of this hair pulling and knee kicking subject it appears to me that you guys are crazy..

so from all i have read here my conclusion is If you leave your OMP intact and only mix 1/2oz per gallon you should be just fine.

no_more_rice

Remove or plug the OMP and run 1/2 oz per gallon two cycle synthetic or Idemitsu rotary lube. If you're over 400 hp, that ratio should likely be bumped up (although there are guys running those power levels at 1/2 oz per gallon with no ill effects, based on my previous conversations with Idemitsu...I did my homework, too). Pettit runs 1 oz per gallon in their track cars.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

For those of you who want to get in a dick-measuring contest, please take it to PMs. No reason to close this thread because you guys want to wrestle around in the dirt

MOBEONER

iTrader: (18)

I agree..100% is there away to erase all the junk and just keep the good info in this thread?

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

Mobeoner, I think you'd be better off running 1oz if you have no OMP and a modified engine. It's not an outrageous amount of "extra" oil and would give you a piece of mind. I think it'd be better to over-lube rather than under.

It's really just a difference in 256:1 and 128:1. I doubt it'd smoke (per Banzai's post) anymore than a typical rotary.

Carpenter

I had asked this question on another post, and no one chimed in.

So......What ratio does the OMP see, at max flow?

Everything I searched, and I spent hours doing this awhile back,
indicates 384:1.

At low rpm's, as high as 600:1.

Well, is this info correct?

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

You, my friend, are envisioning some kind of utopian world that does not and will never exist.

FYI, I run 90:1 (14 oz premix: 10 gal fuel) and have no smoking problems. That is in addition to the stock injection.

MOBEONER

iTrader: (18)

maybe there should. there are probably 3 pages out of 7 that are any good in this thread.
I love to hear peoples opinions but some times these opinions clutter the focus of the discussion.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

A while back I was running about 1.5 oz's per gallon to try it out, this with a working OMP. I had severe cutting out at anywhere from 7000 rpm to redline. NGK 10 race plugs all around. I dropped the premix down to about 0.5 oz per gallon, problem immediately went away.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

I cannot comment on the ratio except to say it would be much lower because it's injected directly onto the inner housing surface and seals via the injection ports. The majority of premix added via the fuel injectors will be burnt off and fail to lubricate anything. Thus the large disparity.

no_more_rice

Any evidence of scoring of the housings at tear down? Even at 0.5 oz per gallon, I still get plug fouling for a minute or two on cold mornings, then it clears up. I'm running Amsoil Interceptor synthetic 2 cycle; Idemitsu rotary lube may be better in this regard

no_more_rice

Nonsense.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Five whole years, WOW. I have been building these engines for nearly 20 years. One case study, hmmm.


Amazing how rapidly your story changes. I guess in all of your vast experience you didn't bother to figure out that 15psi with a 35R on a streetported 13b-rew IS over 400hp. People like you really need to stay out of threads handing out faulty information that WILL cost someone an engine.

I have news for you on your own engine, 3mm seals require more premix then 2mm. Do the math, 50% thicker seals, way more friction, lots more lubrication needed. Good luck with your engine, 5 years does not mean anything, that could be as little as 5 miles.


Sorry Rich had to get that off my chest.

no_more_rice

Back to post 1, folks

Howard knows best....

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

I doubt it is plug fouling, more likely flooding from low compression due to apex seal and housing wear from improper lubrication.

no_more_rice

Nope, my story never changed, I previously said high hp cars and/or track cars probably need to run a fatter mix

I don't know about your engine, pops, you didn't provide details...I only know about mine, and I was talking about mine...reading comprehension ftw

Sounds like pure speculation with little science, typical

30,000. Again, previously stated.

no_more_rice

Again, you need to read before flogging the keyboard. As I stated, my compression is excellent

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

just like you need to learn how to edit instead of spam.

i suppose you also don't realize your half ounce opinion is also speculative with less proof, why not just stop beating your chests over who is right. the main point is that it is extra lubrication which is what the thread is for and as anyone can see most people run 1 ounce per gallon and have no issues. some people also like to tune to 11.8AFR, some people like to tune to 10.5

no_more_rice

*shakes head*

Spam, huh? No proof? Really?

Back to post 1:

I rest my case....

and let me add that the folks at Idemitsu told me they know racers who run 400:1 pre-mix and their engines STILL look good at tear down

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Back it up, then.

AchillesGr

iTrader: (1)

it seems that none finds important the stopping of lubrication at decelaration when using premix only.

KKMpunkrock2011

iTrader: (5)

I may have a solution for the guys with the stock ecu that wasn't mentioned, I admit I only read the first two pages so if this was mentioned I apologize. Why not tap some small holes for the omp injectors in oil filler neck or someplace similar and just have the oil injected into there? Not like it would be that hard since it's plastic and not too much further from the stock location? Also doesn't require a small tank for the omp to draw from or too much extra brainstorming. Just a thought.

I plan on removing my OMP here in the next month or two, glad to see people aren't having problems with wally world 2 stroke as its close and cheap, and mobil 1 5w30 seems to work also. If it's good enough for Howards 500hp car, then it's good enough for my measly 300

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"Why not tap some small holes for the omp injectors in oil filler neck or someplace similar and just have the oil injected into there?"

love this board.... they always come up w solutions. and KKM's could be an excellent solution for someone who just wants to say "NO" to injecting dirty oil onto their apex seals but doesn't want to remove the pump and deal w the stock ECU's shenanigans.

there is the front oil drain very close to the EOP which might (might) offer a drain opportunity along w the filler neck which would work for sure.

a pretty interesting solution.

howard

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Now that you mention it, the OMP can be kept in place and the lines & ingectors removed. No reason to plumb them anywhere, simply block the holes in the OMP with a couple of bolts. This is not a high pressure portion of the system. The Stock ECU stays happy unless the pump goes bad and there is no rerouting of the lines.

Plugging the outlets on the pump should not cause any problems. For example Mazda uses a four outlet pump on the 20B but only plumbs three lines.