Saturdays In Raleigh, Nc
'ol corp rac'r
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: RTP, NC
Originally Posted by speedjunkie
OK, well what page was that one then? Haha. I'm at work right now so I don't have alot of time to be on the forums, I just sneak it in whenever I can.
Well I was referring to using the bat method when talking about the wheels. And I don't want to take any chances whatsoever on damaging the wheels, even though it would only be touching the tire. I've waited 8 months for these damn things, I'm almost afraid to even drive on them! Especially since they already have a nick on the edge, and they were in boxes, with the bonnet things over the faces. Hard telling how fragile these things are. If I'm using the hammer, obviously the wheel would be removed,
Well maybe I'll try the hammer first. I was going to start with a bat, then maybe finish with a hammer. Does that sound feasible?
The one thing that I'd be a little concerned with starting with the bat is that it seems to me it would try to start the bend right at the existing fold of the flange, which might be ok if the paint can stretch to take it... but maybe if positioned right it would start it further inboard on the flange, and I might be over stating the issues with letting it bend more right at the existing fold (see below re heating)... judicious hammering at just the right angle should allow you to get it to start the bending inboard of the bend of the lip, but as I said I may be over stating the necessity of this given some rethinking... and the potential difficulty of doing the hammering just right for the first time... although the worst that should happen with hammering is that it would start bending at the existing fold anyway... the purpose with the hammering is to get the flange to start to bend before the existing fold and make the finished deal rounder, smoother inside...
OK I think I see what you're saying now. So you're saying I would be kinda lining it up by loosening the bolts to move the panel around, but not a whole lot cause I don't want to throw it off that much, right? I'm just doing it as a finishing touch of sorts, to get the right fit?
The rolling and hammering mostly gets the flange out of the way and decreases it's stiffening of the fender... also increases the inner fender to tire clearance as it were... and giving a smooth surface for the tire to rub instead of the sharp edge of a stock flange when you stuff an oversized tire in a stock fender well...
As for loosening the bolts... think of it this way... say you got a straight piece of sheet metal fixed at each end with bolts / screws... you want to 'bow' it out... in order to do that something has to move or stretch... loosening the bolts at the ends, if in oversized holes, allows it to move and bow without stretching the metal panel...
As for fenders, in particular at the rear of the front fender (obviously this deal is usually only available at the front fenders) allows the fender to move some instead of having to do all the bending / bowing out by stretching the metal, or having it 'give up' as much of existing opposite bowed portions, if any, due to fender shapes... now, fortunately due to the shape of a normal fender, and having this huge hole in the middle of the panel (the wheel well) it can be pulled out by mostly allowing it to bend the panel above the well outward which is only attached at the top (note that this tends to pull the lower sides of the well opening inward, but since the well is usually larger there and further away from the tire it don't matter)... this is what really gives you the most freedom to pull it outward... loosening the bolts just gives a little more to work with (being mindful of the gap as noted)... once the fender flange is rolled in the fender becomes much weaker in the intended direction of bowing / flaring and easier to pull out... the flange is there for a reason, to stiffen up the metal panel at its well opening to keep it from bending in or out easily... which brings up the point that once you've compromised the flange's stiffness your fenders can be pushed in easier, say by leaning against them, but they'll also pull back out pretty easy... if you've watched crew members on NASCAR racers physically pulling their fenders out you'll get the idea, it's easy for them cause they ain't got no steenk'n flanges... in addition to curling the flange in and up, rolling is also another way of 'pulling' (or pushing in this case) the fender well opening outward... hope my description helps make sense of what's happening and why...
You will get some stretching from the rolling and / or hammering out the well flange, but most movement will come from the flex in the upper fender above the well... if you can get enough movement without loosening the bolts that's best, the bolt deal is just to help if needed...
The reason I said that was because I've read in a couple different places, when they used the actual fender rolling tool, to put heat on the paint to loosen it up a bit to avoid cracking. Now I've heard it both ways though...one to put it on the OUTSIDE of the fender, and one for the INSIDE so as not to burn the paint or make it bubble, but to heat the metal rather. I'm not sure if either of these was to help bend the lip, or if it was mainly just to assist with the paint.
have a heat gun made by Revlon (one of Barb's old hairdryers that she left), that's what I was using to try to "bake" my paint on the calipers last night, haha. Since I don't have an oven other than the one for food, and I don't have a heat gun. Hopefully it works for the fenders, not even sure yet if it works for the paint. After three days of sitting there, they still weren't dry!!! I have to try something else.
'ol corp rac'r
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: RTP, NC
Originally Posted by Turbo II
ahh, his name is ahhh.... Elton, yeah that's it! Elton John... yeah, that's the ticket. And some guy with a beard use to hang out with 'em. His name was ahhh... nobody, yeah.
Seriously, I have no idea who this guy is or the cars he use to race or the apartment he use to live in or anything like that....
Seriously, I have no idea who this guy is or the cars he use to race or the apartment he use to live in or anything like that....
Damn I sure miss those days... :(
Last edited by IMSA RS 69; Aug 28, 2006 at 05:29 PM.
Originally Posted by IMSA RS 69
Elton John, yeah that's it... one of my ol rac'n buddies from St. Pete thought I looked like him and one night in a bar in Daytona he started calling me that... he also started calling ol Mikey 'Arlo' on ah'count ah his long hair at the time...
Damn I sure miss those days...
Damn I sure miss those days...
KONI Challenge Crew
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: Goldsboro, NC
Originally Posted by speedjunkie
Great news...just ordered a set of tires. Dunlop SP Sport FM901 in the sizes I wanted...235/40 front and 265/35 rear. I emailed people through the Base Exchange and they said they had 3 of the rear tires left, so I'm just barely getting these. They should ship out tomorrow, so hopefully I can still make it to Deal's Gap.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 146
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Originally Posted by IMSA RS 69
If you knew just how hard it was for me to find the dang refs to me I'd heard about on this site... and particularly in this f'n HUGE Thread from Hell w/ >400 posts... now that was frustrating... but you having been on here long 'nuff to do >1000 posts it ought a be a breeze... 
Jes being sure we were on the same page... since it's hard to tell how ya'lls guys minds work sometimes... most the time...
I'd say the bat first would be the best way, especially if you can get the bat deal to work out for you... I've seen it done and know basically how it works, but if I ever used it I don't recall, excepting for crash damage to get the fender off the dang tire soes I could get back on the track and find the sucker what caused it...
The one thing that I'd be a little concerned with starting with the bat is that it seems to me it would try to start the bend right at the existing fold of the flange, which might be ok if the paint can stretch to take it... but maybe if positioned right it would start it further inboard on the flange, and I might be over stating the issues with letting it bend more right at the existing fold (see below re heating)... judicious hammering at just the right angle should allow you to get it to start the bending inboard of the bend of the lip, but as I said I may be over stating the necessity of this given some rethinking... and the potential difficulty of doing the hammering just right for the first time... although the worst that should happen with hammering is that it would start bending at the existing fold anyway... the purpose with the hammering is to get the flange to start to bend before the existing fold and make the finished deal rounder, smoother inside...
Finishing in a way, but really allowing more movement to get more of a true flare... see below...
The rolling and hammering mostly gets the flange out of the way and decreases it's stiffening of the fender... also increases the inner fender to tire clearance as it were... and giving a smooth surface for the tire to rub instead of the sharp edge of a stock flange when you stuff an oversized tire in a stock fender well...
As for loosening the bolts... think of it this way... say you got a straight piece of sheet metal fixed at each end with bolts / screws... you want to 'bow' it out... in order to do that something has to move or stretch... loosening the bolts at the ends, if in oversized holes, allows it to move and bow without stretching the metal panel...
As for fenders, in particular at the rear of the front fender (obviously this deal is usually only available at the front fenders) allows the fender to move some instead of having to do all the bending / bowing out by stretching the metal, or having it 'give up' as much of existing opposite bowed portions, if any, due to fender shapes... now, fortunately due to the shape of a normal fender, and having this huge hole in the middle of the panel (the wheel well) it can be pulled out by mostly allowing it to bend the panel above the well outward which is only attached at the top (note that this tends to pull the lower sides of the well opening inward, but since the well is usually larger there and further away from the tire it don't matter)... this is what really gives you the most freedom to pull it outward... loosening the bolts just gives a little more to work with (being mindful of the gap as noted)... once the fender flange is rolled in the fender becomes much weaker in the intended direction of bowing / flaring and easier to pull out... the flange is there for a reason, to stiffen up the metal panel at its well opening to keep it from bending in or out easily... which brings up the point that once you've compromised the flange's stiffness your fenders can be pushed in easier, say by leaning against them, but they'll also pull back out pretty easy... if you've watched crew members on NASCAR racers physically pulling their fenders out you'll get the idea, it's easy for them cause they ain't got no steenk'n flanges... in addition to curling the flange in and up, rolling is also another way of 'pulling' (or pushing in this case) the fender well opening outward... hope my description helps make sense of what's happening and why...
You will get some stretching from the rolling and / or hammering out the well flange, but most movement will come from the flex in the upper fender above the well... if you can get enough movement without loosening the bolts that's best, the bolt deal is just to help if needed...
Given all the new type paints and their advancement in allowing movement without cracking things are obviously different than in the old days... sounds like it might be an acceptable way to help out even more from your sources... I think I would definitely go with the inside for the most part keeping it on the flange which won't be visible if something does go awry...
Sounds like some stubborn paint there... to help out with small pieces like that, enclose them in a box (at least on three sides) to help hold the heat in, and let it just run as long as it takes... small really hot space heaters, like the old time metal element type, or perhaps one of the newer ceramic rod types... cardboard is ok if the heat source isn't hot enough, or close enough to catch it on fire... at a minimum it's not hard to set up the heater blowing on the objects with them enclosed on the three sides and top in front of the heater to keep the heat around the object, sorta like an oven...
Jes being sure we were on the same page... since it's hard to tell how ya'lls guys minds work sometimes... most the time...
I'd say the bat first would be the best way, especially if you can get the bat deal to work out for you... I've seen it done and know basically how it works, but if I ever used it I don't recall, excepting for crash damage to get the fender off the dang tire soes I could get back on the track and find the sucker what caused it...
The one thing that I'd be a little concerned with starting with the bat is that it seems to me it would try to start the bend right at the existing fold of the flange, which might be ok if the paint can stretch to take it... but maybe if positioned right it would start it further inboard on the flange, and I might be over stating the issues with letting it bend more right at the existing fold (see below re heating)... judicious hammering at just the right angle should allow you to get it to start the bending inboard of the bend of the lip, but as I said I may be over stating the necessity of this given some rethinking... and the potential difficulty of doing the hammering just right for the first time... although the worst that should happen with hammering is that it would start bending at the existing fold anyway... the purpose with the hammering is to get the flange to start to bend before the existing fold and make the finished deal rounder, smoother inside...
Finishing in a way, but really allowing more movement to get more of a true flare... see below...
The rolling and hammering mostly gets the flange out of the way and decreases it's stiffening of the fender... also increases the inner fender to tire clearance as it were... and giving a smooth surface for the tire to rub instead of the sharp edge of a stock flange when you stuff an oversized tire in a stock fender well...
As for loosening the bolts... think of it this way... say you got a straight piece of sheet metal fixed at each end with bolts / screws... you want to 'bow' it out... in order to do that something has to move or stretch... loosening the bolts at the ends, if in oversized holes, allows it to move and bow without stretching the metal panel...
As for fenders, in particular at the rear of the front fender (obviously this deal is usually only available at the front fenders) allows the fender to move some instead of having to do all the bending / bowing out by stretching the metal, or having it 'give up' as much of existing opposite bowed portions, if any, due to fender shapes... now, fortunately due to the shape of a normal fender, and having this huge hole in the middle of the panel (the wheel well) it can be pulled out by mostly allowing it to bend the panel above the well outward which is only attached at the top (note that this tends to pull the lower sides of the well opening inward, but since the well is usually larger there and further away from the tire it don't matter)... this is what really gives you the most freedom to pull it outward... loosening the bolts just gives a little more to work with (being mindful of the gap as noted)... once the fender flange is rolled in the fender becomes much weaker in the intended direction of bowing / flaring and easier to pull out... the flange is there for a reason, to stiffen up the metal panel at its well opening to keep it from bending in or out easily... which brings up the point that once you've compromised the flange's stiffness your fenders can be pushed in easier, say by leaning against them, but they'll also pull back out pretty easy... if you've watched crew members on NASCAR racers physically pulling their fenders out you'll get the idea, it's easy for them cause they ain't got no steenk'n flanges... in addition to curling the flange in and up, rolling is also another way of 'pulling' (or pushing in this case) the fender well opening outward... hope my description helps make sense of what's happening and why...
You will get some stretching from the rolling and / or hammering out the well flange, but most movement will come from the flex in the upper fender above the well... if you can get enough movement without loosening the bolts that's best, the bolt deal is just to help if needed...
Given all the new type paints and their advancement in allowing movement without cracking things are obviously different than in the old days... sounds like it might be an acceptable way to help out even more from your sources... I think I would definitely go with the inside for the most part keeping it on the flange which won't be visible if something does go awry...
Sounds like some stubborn paint there... to help out with small pieces like that, enclose them in a box (at least on three sides) to help hold the heat in, and let it just run as long as it takes... small really hot space heaters, like the old time metal element type, or perhaps one of the newer ceramic rod types... cardboard is ok if the heat source isn't hot enough, or close enough to catch it on fire... at a minimum it's not hard to set up the heater blowing on the objects with them enclosed on the three sides and top in front of the heater to keep the heat around the object, sorta like an oven...
Yeah Nic, I'm pretty happy. There might still be a chance for the Gap. I've heard different things about these tires, but the price couldn't be beat for one. It was actually a little more expensive going through the BX, but I had to have them soon.
Josh, I'd like to roll them as soon as possible, maybe this weekend? Haha. I can bring my bat and a hammer, haha. Although I'd almost like to wait til I get the wheels on to make sure it's wide enough.
Wouldn't Go If U Paid Me
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,036
Likes: 0
From: Clayton, NC
hey eric are you backing out of the roller deal? just wondering. it is not that critical for mine. unlike some of us i picked my offsets so they would fit lol. just messin with you. however, i would like to do it because i get a little rub in extreme conditions (ie the gap)
Originally Posted by AntiVenom7
hey eric are you backing out of the roller deal? just wondering. it is not that critical for mine. unlike some of us i picked my offsets so they would fit lol. just messin with you. however, i would like to do it because i get a little rub in extreme conditions (ie the gap)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 146
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Originally Posted by AntiVenom7
hey eric are you backing out of the roller deal? just wondering. it is not that critical for mine. unlike some of us i picked my offsets so they would fit lol. just messin with you. however, i would like to do it because i get a little rub in extreme conditions (ie the gap)
KONI Challenge Crew
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: Goldsboro, NC
Originally Posted by speedjunkie
Yeah yeah yeah, only wusses have wheels that fit without modification, haha. If only I could get a little "rub" now and then
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 146
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Originally Posted by I8U
I must be a wuss then...lol! And about getting a little "rub", if you make it up to the Gap, I'm sure we could find you a good 'ol mountain girl to hook you up. haha
THE Redhead Rotorhead!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,589
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by mrthundercleese
Here you go David/Stina, TEH MIGHTY FB!. Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion, already in progress.
HOORAY! SEXXAY! 
THE Redhead Rotorhead!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,589
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by speedjunkie
Well I know he showed up to that one meet in a red Miata with a roll cage...I know, that really narrows it down huh? HAHA. I think that was him anyway.
Last edited by PerkyStina; Aug 28, 2006 at 10:36 PM.
KONI Challenge Crew
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: Goldsboro, NC
Originally Posted by speedjunkie
Well, maybe if I had played my cards right I'd already been getting a little rubbin huh? Haha. I don't care what Keri or any of them say...her actions show what's really up, haha. That's alright though, so far it's worked out for the best. I'll explain further at the Gap hopefully.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: The Cave North Carolina USA
Hey guys. Long time since I signed on here. Are you all going to the Dragon anytime soon? I'll be there with the S2000 group next month. Maybe we will see each other.
I just wanted to slide over here and wave. It's been so long. Y'all drive careful and maybe we will get together.
B Guano AKA Lee
I just wanted to slide over here and wave. It's been so long. Y'all drive careful and maybe we will get together.
B Guano AKA Lee
Jinx
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 1
From: Raleigh, NC
Quick post to link to RBQ/VIR photos:
http://www.msccnc.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=12
http://www.msccnc.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=12
Originally Posted by Batguano
Hey guys. Long time since I signed on here. Are you all going to the Dragon anytime soon? I'll be there with the S2000 group next month. Maybe we will see each other.
I just wanted to slide over here and wave. It's been so long. Y'all drive careful and maybe we will get together.
B Guano AKA Lee
I just wanted to slide over here and wave. It's been so long. Y'all drive careful and maybe we will get together.
B Guano AKA Lee
Some of the guys in the RX-8 club and from here are going up there over the 8th I think it is.
Originally Posted by Johny zoom
Mine only rub in exterme conditions too...
Oops! Did I say that? Sorry, I couldn't resist that one!!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: The Cave North Carolina USA
Originally Posted by Turbo II
Hey Lee! Good to hear from you, missing the 7 yet? Some of the guys in the RX-8 club and from here are going up there over the 8th I think it is.
Some of the guys in the RX-8 club and from here are going up there over the 8th I think it is.Yes, I do miss the S5. There is a special connection with that car thats hard to explain.
I wont be there on the 8th but I will be tere on Sept,21-24,then in Cherokee for 2 days and back to Fontana/ Deals Gap on the 27th to run with both my sons. They have Mazdas. One RXy and 1 Miata.
I shot this with a bullet cam mounted to the front bumper. I know its a little dull but you get the idea.
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...gAnch=imgAnch1
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: The Cave North Carolina USA
Originally Posted by Batguano
Yes, I do miss the S5. There is a special connection with that car thats hard to explain.
I wont be there on the 8th but I will be tere on Sept,21-24,then in Cherokee for 2 days and back to Fontana/ Deals Gap on the 27th to run with both my sons. They have Mazdas. One RXy and 1 Miata.
I shot this with a bullet cam mounted to the front bumper. I know its a little dull but you get the idea.
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...gAnch=imgAnch1
I wont be there on the 8th but I will be tere on Sept,21-24,then in Cherokee for 2 days and back to Fontana/ Deals Gap on the 27th to run with both my sons. They have Mazdas. One RXy and 1 Miata.
I shot this with a bullet cam mounted to the front bumper. I know its a little dull but you get the idea.
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...gAnch=imgAnch1
Or try this. My son Craig in the Miata camera car. I'm in the white FC and my son John is in the red FC.
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...gAnch=imgAnch1
Full Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by mrthundercleese
Here you go David/Stina, TEH MIGHTY FB!. Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion, already in progress.
Now my day is complete 
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: The Cave North Carolina USA
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: The Cave North Carolina USA
Originally Posted by Johny zoom
Lee good to hear from you again, Hope all is well with you & the family, and the Honda.
Johny
Johny
Thanks. I guess you guys thought I had drifted off into Hondaland. I'm still kicking. Going to the Dragon 9/21. Can't wait.
