Red-Rx7

There are many swaps out there right now for these cars. Just because something weighs more than another item, doesn't mean the car doesn't handle well. When looking at any of these swaps, I look to see if any of the steering geometry has been altered. Weight can be shifted and compensated via other parts accordingly.

I have a 20b in my car. I did it because it is unique. Not that a V8 in an RX-7 isn't, but it is just something I wanted to do. Key phrase of "I". In fact, I would love to do a V8 conversion in an RX-7 as well. I have seen some very nice setups.

Let me emphasize the fact about "handling". In my conversion, the steering rack wasn't touched. I use the STOCK subframe of the car. The front housing extends past the rack a tad, and IS EXTRA WEIGHT. Yet, the various parts of the front end I have removed compensates for the difference.

If anyone thinks my car was compromised in any way, they are off base and talking without first-hand knowledge. I would challenge any other FD3S to a spirited run around a road course, and they can see themselves. Not only have I put more power into the vehicle, but I also upgraded the sway bars, coilovers, bushings, braces, etc.

I would hope that any of these V8 conversions also put this much effort into supporting equipment as well. And until you have seen the conversion first hand, it is irrational to say it is fubared or not. I can guarantee you that there ARE both 20b and V8 conversion's out there which have screwed up the handling of the car. I also would feel confident that there are V8 setups which run better than the factory; I emphasize "confident" for I don't own one, but I can confirm on the 20b swap.

Also to the V8 folk, don't talk about gas mileage. I didn't build my car to sight see the world. Hell, I bet I burn more gas at idle than a dodge viper at WOT.

kukri

EDIT: I originally posted a big *** explanation to you, but then i thought: Why would i need to prove anything when i already know what me and my car can do and done.. and someone telling me what me and my car can do from looking at some numbers on the internet..

YOU go participate in auto x, get some times and see what you get and see what everyone else get and after a few auto xs..get a clue and then post. Thanks.

pimpncuba

i have participated in many autox's and hpde track day events. my experience with cars comparable to yours and a c6 or z06 on track is what i based my comment on not numbers. so please don't accuse me of being an internet ricer.

corvettes with a good driver usually roll any car 10+ years old on track. i asked you what your definition of performance is, autox, track, drag, because that makes a huge difference. just putting a huge engine and a suspension on your late 80s early 90s car doesn't mean it can handle with a corvette on a track. drag and autox i wholeheartedly agree you can make a car that will perform better for less $$$. i have actually rolled a c6 at an autoX in my pos. but the track is different. car handling characteristics mean alot more than numbers on track. positive handling characteristics that most older cars don't have as compared to newer cars. have you ever tried to trail brake in an Rx-7?!?! snap oversteer is not your friend, unless you drift new cars have been designed to eliminate those and make a more rounded driveable/trackable car.

I'm not saying your car can't roll a vette, most likely not in the twisties. but you will only find out by trying. so YOU go participate in some autoX's and hpde track days and see how you fare against a c6 or z06 and then come back and make me eat my words. i love seeing vettes go down

ForceFed

The alarming number of ignorant posts in this thread almost makes me want to sell my RX-7. Better yet, it almost makes me want to swap a LS6 into it out of spite.

Here is what Hinson said about the acceleration of their FD with the LS1 swap in it. There are no acceleration claims on the Granny's site
A 6.9 in the 1/8th translates to about a 10.7 in the quarter. Real drag racers use the following formula to estimate their quarter mile performance from 1/8th mi numbers:

(1/8th mi ET +.22) / .665

The only V8-7s on the Granny's site are 2 full drag cars. One runs 8s and another runs 9.99. The third doesn't have any times listed. I don't know where anyone got a 6.0 1/8th mi time for a street going V8 converted RX-7??? A 6.0 in the 1/8th is about a 9.35 in the quarter.

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. The LS-1 rods aren't engineered for 20lbs of boost. But then again, neither is the stock fuel system, exhaust, intercooler or ECU on a RX-7. Moot point. Both cars would need upgrades to run 20lbs of boost. Also, Mazda has not confirmed what motor the next gen RX-7 is going to get. In fact, it hasn't even confirmed it will build a next gen RX-7, Mr. Bench racer. Lets see what other gems we have on this page...

Hmm. Here's a good one:
Because everything you read in a magazine is gospel. Man I should stop reading books.
LOL I don't even need to say anything else on that matter...

Smartest thing said in this thread so far IMO.

ROFL! Dude, you have no idea what real snap oversteer is. I've tracked a stock FD at Limerock and Watkins-Glen and have trail braked all day long with no problems. I'll take you to Limerock, W-G or Mid-Ohio for 5 laps and give you a tour of the track and SHOW you trail braking in a FD(Try to keep up). Then i'll come back and pull you out of the weeds...
So you know everything about Kukri's car then right?
You know the weight distribution, the tire compound, brand, contact patch, lateral acceleration in cornering and polar moment? Let me guess, you sat down and ran the numbers and found them to be in the favor the C6 or Z06 without ever even seeing his car first hand? If you had any common sense or experience about real racing, you'd know the two simplest determining factors on how fast a car makes it around a track are weight and handling, more specifically tires and suspension, both variables you know nothing about in regards to his car. Stop making claims that his car would beat or lose to anything before I make you look even worse.


Internet ricer

IMO, the only rotary more reliable than its piston counterpart is a non-turbo (Here's a clue: the days of IMSA)

kukri

Lol I've got nothing else add to that. At least some people on here got some sense.

academytim

Brian hasn't updated the page on his site in a LOOOOONG time. I've personally seen his car go a 10.1 when it wasn't anywhere near the 69x rwhp it ended up being prior to having the engine pulled for the twin turbo buildup. That was also at a rinky dink local 1/4 mile track with horrible track prep/etc. Someone over at torquecentral.com mentioned him going a 6.0 in the 1/8th, which doesn't surprise me, seeing as that is nowhere near the fastest V8 Rx7 over there. There is a V8 first gen over there running mid 5s!!! He has a picture of his longest "wheelie," where the front didn't come down until 3rd gear. lol

mark57

The FD unibody excels in all areas due to its minimalist design and state-of-the-art construction. The size/weight of the 13BREW is arguably the highlight of the minimalist vision as it is ideally located to enhance the aero, braking, and handling packages even more than what was/is on the market at ANY price (this was something not achieved in pony cars, affordable performance cars, or high-end performance cars in the U.S. and certainly not by any manufacturer in Europe and Japan for the money).

But, it turns out, the LS1 engine fits the FD wonderfully - the hood closes on it w/o touching. The banterous "bench racing" that this V8 is "enemy equipment", is too heavy, or is too big for the FD unibody is flat-out wrong and cannot change what has already been achieved. The engine is light and the engine sits low and far enough back in there. And, it's strong.

This particular car generates enthusiasm and lots of questions daily just sitting in the shop awaiting its freshened engine; it has everyone giggling like little school girls. I think to 2hotrods will have an audience of groupies when he returns to fire it up and drive away!

Since we have some spare LS1 engines, there is talk in the shop of doing one for ourselves; we like it that much already.

turboR1

its funny how you guys compare a car that is 10+ years newer then the FD to match its performance.. AND since when is 400rwhp hard to achieve on a FD.. I put down 403 rwhp at 15psi.. thats 93 pump gas and have NO reliablity issues.. PLUS the car drives like a stock rx7 below 4k rpms who says you wont make it to FL.. actually if our engines do pop chances are you can actually still drive it home on one rotor. .TRY that in your Dirt V8 if it blows up. Your spending 5k for a swap, 5k for a single turbo would makes just as much..
PLUS those twin turbo v8s make almost twice as much power and are barely a few tenths of a sec faster then a rotary single turbo with half the power.. thats embrassing I think..

midnight_7

some people just have to wake up and realize the rotary isn't the best engine out there all the time.

hp/litre means nothing in the "real" world....what matters is maximum available power at the earliest possible time throughout the powerband. what good is having to rev high
when some cars can attain that same power level at lower RPMs.

yes, some boosted cars on here can whip cars with bigger engines in it, but thats not the point.

point is we rotary nuts disregard the V8 swap as an evil fix when the only downside i can tell is that people (or speciafically rotary purists rather) will think you have a mullet. show me more cons than pros regarding this swap.

naturally aspirated power = V8 (don't dare bring forced induction into this topic as you already know what forced induction can do to a V8)

naturally aspirated torque = V8

reliability = V8

more potential power = bigger engine displacement (V8)

handling = V8 (its easier to make a big engine car handle better than a small engine car
make more powerful, so advantage V8)

simplicity = 13B

high redline = 13B (and that does what?)

milage = V8 (again, who can claim 400hp 13B's with the same milage as a similar HP V8. and don't give me this "i-didn't-build-my-car-to-sight-see-the-world, that just gives me another reason to pick the V8 as i can sight see the world and kick some *** and not worry my car will flood.)

uniqueness = 13B (this does alot for racing)

i have a 1991 Coupe with a stock 13B and a nitrous system on its way. I love that fact i drive a car with a very unique factory engine and the 2nd. highest hp/litre NA motor in the world. But i realize the short-commings of my engine and and those who don't are either uneducated about this topic or just plain ignorant.

pianoprodigy

Umm...some people could not care less about the 1/4 mile or even the race track. Bottom line is that a twin-turbo-V8-powered FD making twice the HP as ANY 13B will be a hell of a lot faster on the street and do it more reliably. I'm not sure what TT V8 you're talking about, but assuming equal drivers and conditions, the TT V8 would be more than a "few tenths" faster than any car making half the power. I would hope that you're not dumb enough to think that power and speed are directly proportional. It takes exponentially more power to go just that little bit faster when we're talking about cars running 9s and lower.

pimpncuba

sorry forcefed i should have specified fb and fc not an fd. i never said his car couldn't roll a c6, i just said i think it was unlikely with what i have seen of a car similar to his (fc, seam welded, full roll cage, full suspension, r-comp tires) and a stock c6. the fc got rolled unmercifully even though the fc driver was a race licenced instructor and the c6 driver was only hpde3. the vette passed him on the outside of a turn once. this is why i asked him to actually take his car out and see how it fared. i would love to hear of another rx-7 beating *** on a vette. how close are you to danville, va? there is an open event at VIR in july, i would love to drive with you or ride along on track.

Klar

Must do taxes to pick up the ls1...

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

must do taxes to pick up the 20b...

ForceFed

I wish I was close to you. I'm in Charlotte, NC. VIR is one of my favorite tracks. The elevation changes really keep you on your toes. As for taking my FD to the track, it won't likely happen anytime soon. I have an all original CYM with 45kmi on it which I cherish very much. It being stock means it also doesn't have the necessary goods to survive 2 laps of 10/10s driving from me and I'm not about to go modifying it just for the sake of making it track worthy since now the car is lucky if it sees 600 miles a year of normal street driving. If you can find someone else crazy enough to let ME drive their FD at VIR sometime in maybe.....August or so, then I'm game.

Also, there is going to be a fantastic track opening up in Salisbury, NC which is about 40 mins north of Charlotte:
http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news...23/002488.html
http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm...m_article=8833
Proposed track layout:


It'll be a really nice track. If you ever make your way over to it, look me up. I'll suit up and do a few laps with you

pimpncuba

i'll let you drive the fb from hell if you want in july/augustish, if you can make it to VIR.(should be supercharged w/ rb suspension and r-comps by then). VIR is an amazing track, one of the best on the east coast. it is a country club compared to slum-it point near where i live.

that hair pin on that new track looks fun . how far is it from where i live? mmsports from jmu would definately take a convoy down there by the looks of that track. what car do you usually track if it's not your FD? keep in mind if you say spec miata, i might just kill you

kukri

Unless you're planning going 600+rwhp - I dont think so...

I bet he didn't have a 350 and i bet he wasn't driving my fc

pimpncuba

he still had the rotary. that is why i told YOU to take YOUR car out and see how it fares and shut the doubters. i would love to see you trash a vette and make me eat my words. i would be the first to give you thumbs up

kukri

OH.. well IM doing that in june @ lake waccamaw, NC
unfortunately April event is full
Till then I will be working on the suspension and probably getting a roll bar, because there's always room for improvement

see you there

JEC-31

Awesome thread.

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics - even if you win you're still retarded."

Or was that rotarded? just kidding!


I'm dumping my FB and FC shells and saving up for a no-compression FD... and an LS6!

ForceFed

An FB sounds fun. I doubt I can make it to VIR in july but i'll try. I agree that VIR is one of the best on the east coast.

As for how long it will take you to get to Salisbury, I mapquested it and got this very rough estimate:

1: Start out going SOUTH on US-29 BR S/MAIN ST toward JEFFERSON AVENUE EXT. 0.8 miles Map

2: Merge onto VA-86 S toward CHAPEL HILL. 2.3 miles Map

3: Merge onto US-29 S toward GREENBORO. 40.6 miles Map

4: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto N OHENRY BLVD/US-29 S. 3.1 miles Map

5: Take the I-40 W/I-85-BR S ramp. 0.6 miles Map

6: Merge onto US-70 W/US-29 S. 6.9 miles Map

7: Take I-85 S toward CHARLOTTE. 42.1 miles Map

8: Take EXIT 76B toward SALISBURY. 0.2 miles Map

9: Turn RIGHT onto E INNES ST. 1.1 miles Map

10: Turn LEFT onto S ELLIS ST. <0.1 miles Map

11: End at Salisbury, NC US

Total Est. Time: 1 hour, 47 minutes Total Est. Distance: 98.26 miles

I don't track anything anymore. I used to have an old MKIII Supra that I swapped a 1JZ-GTE into. It was gutted, on HKS coil-overs and old Hoosiers. This would be back in 1996-1997.Limerock was my first track and one of my favorites. Some rough pavement here and there but thats what made it fun. Then I bought a Montego blue base model and tracked that but only twice since it was bone stock and I could only get 2 hard laps out of it then i'd have to do 2 cool-down laps. I did this twice, then I realized I hated the color and sold the car. Then I bought a 00 Viper RT/10. Although I never tracked mine, i've tracked several others at Viper Club of America meets at Mid-Ohio and Limerock back 2001-2002 ( I was a member). Then I got the CYM and it spends most of it's time in hibernation keeping the mileage down. It also has a bum clutch in it. At first I thought it was something I did to it but I don't think thats the case.

Anyways, I sold off most of my racing gear when I moved from Upstate NY down here to Charlotte but I still have my Michael Schumacher FMS02 Fila race shoes I still wear them from time to time!

Being in the south I live literally a mile away from Lowes Motor speedway. This is NASCAR country and drag country so I've been goofing off on the strip lately instead of real racing. The girlfriend just bought a 04 Miata that we might turn up the wick on so if the bug bites, I just might take that to the track and send it through the wringer

Look me up if you ever make your way to that new Highpoint race track in Salisbury.

pimpncuba

nice. let me know how it works out. i don't know if i will make it down into nc this summer for track events. vir is about as far south as i go. a 2 hr drive is about my limit until i get another car and can trailor the rex in case something breaks.

pimpncuba

will do forcefed. alot of alum members of madison motorsports live in hotlanta and would be more than happy to go to that track. hell the whole damn club would go. two weeks ago we had 3 people who went to road atlanta for the weekend from VA! how did the viper handle compared to the other cars? that supra sounds like a mean setup. coilovers can vastly improve your handleing. in the feb event i went to a e46 m3 with coilovers and 265 r-comps ran circles around gt3s, vettes, 911s, basically everything.

Swany

I see where some of the V8 haters are coming from. They know the V8s are fast but are arguing just for the sake of argument. They like the imports because the imports pose a real challenge. They give someone a oppertunity to take a small motor and see how well they can do agains the behemoths. As far as the RP RX7 it is full interior plus a roll cage it is not a tube frame. It is a legit street car. So this Hinnson guy is gonna run 8s with a twin turbo LS1. I think he should be running 7s. I mean if his car is gonna be as light and as powerful as you say he shouldbe. There is a guy named Shepard running a DSM with somewhat gutted interior but not a tube chassis on a street legal DSM. He runs 8s and is getting around 1000HP on a stock block and crank from a 90 Talon. That is impressive a 2.0L running 8s in car heavier than the RX7. Dont get me wrong that LS1 is impressive that this guy is gonna be running but with twice the cylinders and over twice the cubes in a lighter car it is no where near as impressive. Why not swap in a motor from a Supra or DSM or somthing. The you can still get your reliability that you so call want and still be original. I mean there is motorcylcles sporting 350s these days. The whole V8 swap is so tired. Imean I have read about numerous 1000+ HP supras and they are running 3 liters. Everyone is always at each others throats in here it is so old. Also for those of you calling people out that are hundred or over a thousand miles away from you come on. You know damn well no one is gonna drive 12 or more hrs to prove you wrong. 2 hrs maybe. If you want to race them so bad you go to them or find someone closer to you to race. I guess I like all cars but I like the imports for the challenge of making a small motor put out big HP. Putting a V8 in any import defies the purpose of the import IMO. Hell if I could by a new car today it would be the new Mustang Cobra. That car is tight. Anyway if any of you have GM stock I feel bad for ya have you looked at the latest #s..? Gm has lost 2.5% of the market in 1 yr. They may have to send buick to the grave like they did with Olds. People have had it with the crap GM is putting out. GMs share of the market is continually shrinking. The only stuff GM has thats any good most of us cant afford. Anyway no hate to the V8s but I believe there place is not in a RX7. Besides there is Mustangs running 8s and they are heavier than a RX7 with a V8 so I guess once again not real impressive with the twin turbo LS1 RX7 running 8s. Respectable hell ya way faster than me. As far as the shock value not so high after seeing mustangs, DSMs and Supras all run 8s. All cars are heavier and all have smaller motors. For me this is the most fun I have had with any car I love the rotary, the sound the linear pull everthing. Ya they require a bit more maintenance but so what. Also if your scared of blowing motors quit racing. This is just my 2 cents on the subject. Nothing but love to everyone no hate hear just opinions, and everyone knows about opinions. What is a perfect car and makes one happy is totally different from what some other person may think. So to sit and argue who is right and wrong is usless. Besides is it not flames like this that almost booted the other engine forum..? The only thing I can say is when browsing other car forums like the DSM forums and stuff it is kinda refreshing as there is virtually no talk or flaming on this V8 swap topic. In the Mustang forums there is no flaming about this sh*t either. I guess I should go in those forums and see what they say if I said I have a DSM and wanna swap in a V8, or the Stang forums and say I wanna swap in a rotary LOL. I wonder if I could flame em up.. Well anyway peace I am outta here!

Swany

LOL this is so funny usual flames. Anyway here is some stuff I wanna mention. 1st thing was one guy in FL was calling a guy out in ND, ok guess what someone from ND is not gonna drive all the way down to FL to race you.
2nd thing if we can no longer discuss cars and what other people run lets shut the forum down. Who cares if someones car is not as fast as someone elses. Not all rotarys are as fast as the RP street car, nor are all V8 RX7s gonna do what this hinnison guys RX7 is gonna do. I think its funny to see all these 10 second cars on here and all the tough guys. Everyone is tough and there cars are the fastest when they are hidding behind a keyboard.
3rd Is it not these flame wars that almost ruined the V8 guys little section...? Come on V8 guys show some maturity here and just let em talk and same with the rotor heads. You all believe what your gonna believe no one is gonna change the other.
4th As far as swaps there is also 4 bangers and 6 bangers that would make nice swaps and probably even be a bit more original. Shep racing is running a DSM with a 1000+HP on astock block and crank and is hitting 8s. This car is gutted but no tube chassis. It is also a street car. Well technically it is. Not to metion there is good chunk of 1000+ HP Supras. You do not need a twin turbo LS1 to hit the 8s or produce a 1000HP. Personally I belive if 2 cars are running 8s the one with the smallest motor is the most impressive. We all no DSMs are not light.
5th looking through the other forums I dont see such flamage and cut throat ruthlessness towards other members. Then agian I did not read about any V8 swaps in the DSMTuners forums LOL.

Please lets just get along we all are after one goal making our cars faster. I am sure I speak for most of us when I say we race and work on our cars for fun and for a learning experience. I think most of us jsut do this for fun and are NOT professional drag racers. As far as I am concerned 12 second and faster cars are damn fast no matter what motor is doing it. I mean the Viper runs 12.1 stock 04 Z06 ran 12.4 stock this years Z06 with a 427 runs 11.7 these are all fast cars. I dont care what anyone says 12 seconds and faster is very respectable. If a car runs 9s who cares if its rotary or piston power 9 seconds is 9 seconds. To call a guys car sh*t because he chooses to stick with the rotary is ignorant and vise versa. Like I said we are here to talk cars and discover new tricks and ideas on how to make our cars faster. Why start making enemys? Someday the guy you called ignorant may solve your electrical problem or have a part you want. Think about it, we are all members of this forum. I would like to see us treat each other better and we can all benifit I mean no matter what we all own 7s. We should be on the same team. Thats my 2 cents.

turboR1

MIDNIGHT 7... "some people just have to wake up and realize the rotary isn't the best engine out there all the time"

NO one ever said it was the best engine. BUT it is the engine that belongs in the car since the RX7 was built for the rotary. AND if its such a bad engine how come there are several 10+ 13b's in PR and Aust with 7 sec time slips.. with half the power half the motor.. but i guess thats no match for the awesome v8.

You guys get called mullets because your agruments make no sense.
and NASCAR sucks.. lets go race around in a circle.. woohoo
I agree with everything Swany said..