**** it I'm not going to argue with you anymore than to say the rotary is better than the v8 :P: you think the way you want to and I'll think the way I do. In the end I'd love to race your car

 

Pensacola isn't to far away, and the FD in the video at the beginning of this post is here, I do belive he also drives to La. every other week or so. PM him if you want a demo I am sure he would oblige.

 

Yup. My car is no slouch, but Rick's FD is so much faster it's quite silly. Being able to roll along in 4th @ 80MPH and roast the rear tires is a feat his car can do.

The only other sportscar I would consider replacing my 10AE with would be a C5/C6 Corvette or an LS1 FD.

 

That's what happens when you start arguments out of your *** and can't back it up.

 

oh lord no we could fight all day long and I think it's kind of childish. If you want to keep fighting on the net so we can see who has the larger epenis we can but really I have better things to do. I will stay with my superior rotary engines and you can stay with your inferior piston engines, fine by me.

 

Shut your hole hondahater. You have said at least twice now that you were done. Yet you still come back. You must be rather insecure about your epenis size.



"superior" rotardly engine.... **Ace Ventura laugh**

 

hondahater is either trolling or having a severe chronic save of cognitive dissonanse.

The facts have been stated, and restated. His lack of understanding and vague, general, nay, non sequitur replies have been shot full of holes, and then some, yet he continues to come back.

If its superior, demonstrate its superiority. Quantify it. Explain it. Elaborate. So far the only thing that makes them 'better' than a v8 (according to him) is that its more of a 'fun' 'challenge' to work on them becuase theyre not 'totally figured out'. So, he thinks a unproven, untested, non-understood engine with a KNOWN thermodynamic ineffiicency and high BSFC thats known to be unreliable with racy ports or boost is "fun" becuase its still poorly understood (in his mind) and its not easy to work on. I suppose hes a masochist? Or, just tryign to support the rotary tuning and apex seal industry?

Whereas a perfectly understood, easy to mod, cheap, reliable, powerful, strong, ohysically light or moderate (LS1/302 being almost as light as the stock powerplant!) thats easier to fix if it does break, easy as hell to change displacement of (no two part e-shafts and 3rd or 4th rotors) and easy to change the VE% of (you can change heads or cams, you dont have to port out any housings like a rotary, plus a person at home can change them out, changing out new housings is a pull out job for a shop.) and tune without fear of catastrophic rebuild-inducing pings (a piston can ping like its popping popcorn and make it home and might only need a set of new compression rings, which you can do in your garage by taking the heads off) and have more displacement and more power than a 2.6 liter 13b, is 'inferior'.

So far all Ive seen him manage to do is attack ad-hominem people who use v8s, or call v8s what amounts to 'stupid, primitive, or too easy'. Well, simplicity is a inherant virtue of design (which a lot of rotards seem to indicate makes their wankels superior), its not primitive, and being easy is a good thing.

As kukri said, we'd rather challenge Vipers, STis, elises and Supras, then our cheekbooks and our own damn engines. If you think its cool to spend a lot of money to keep the engine rebuilt and spend big $$$ on port jobs and turbos and oil coolers while we spend a fraction of that for a engine that will go signifigantly faster without even touching boost or needing an oil cooler, you're either enjoy spending money, love your mechanic, or have no common sense.

Rotaries need to come out if theyre tuned at all to rebuild the seals. Piston engines come out for stoker kits. And if someone does something lame-brained *ahem* and starves oil to a rod bearing, you need a new crank and bearings at worst. Sometimes you only need a new set of bearings. Even then, a new crankshaft, even a stroked out FORGED one is still cheaper than a rebuild, and such events are preventable. Apex seals are wear surfaces and their breakdown is inevitable. Piston engnes can go much much longer before needing a new set of bearings, rings and gaskets and the rebuild would likely be much cheaper.

So, take your pick. More displacement, more power, more torque, more efficiency with fuel and with the heat of combustion (more power from the fuel/air) stronger longer lasting easier to tune, reversible tuning, and the ability to change displacement, vs fixed displacement, non-reversible tuning changes to the VE% and powerband from porting that physically comprimise the engine, interfere with water passages and arent reversible, grenades for apex seals, fuel and heat INEFFICIENCY, and fixed displacement... and you get less out of it for more money.

And before you talk about 'rotaries dont need as much' its becuase theyre in a LIGHT, WELL MADE CHASSIS, AND ANY ENGINE IN THE SAME CHASSIS NEEDS LESS POWER THAN THEY WOULD IN ONE A HEAVIER ONE.

 

Gentlemen, V8s and rotaries are no more inferior or superior than one another. Why don't we all point and laugh at four bangers and V6s?

 

Eh there are plenty of turbo 4 bangers I would take over a rotary.

 

That's ok, you're right, v8/rotary powered rx7's are the ****, I'm getting laughed at locally by a car club 'because I have a pos wankel 1935 rx7' in their words...wait till I port it...

 

I thought that was mandatory?

 

Hold up! more rep point hilarity!

FD s FC **Video** Both ... 08-12-05 01:57 PM Enjoy your red mark

Wow, like I give a ****? I hope it gets so red it turns purple

Who is this anyway, what rotard? hondahater, Im lookin at you

 

i heard it was fuman or some ****. i got one of those too.




i personally laughed. my local boards used to have rep points too. everyone laughed their asses off about them for a few days then we got rid of them.



hondahater is still an idiot too

 

hmm someone tried to give me a negative point for this thread but could only give me a gray one. lol

 

Im utterly amazed at how immature a bunch of grown men are acting because their dogma ran out infront of our karma

 

Just curios, Why did you put an ls1 in an FC? Is it because the FC is cheaper for the body. or do you ls1 and lt1 fc owners like the FC look? Maybe because it is also a lighter car. I just want to know. I dont want to be judged here..

 

For a few reasons. FC is cheap, but also a kickass chassis in its own right, not just compared to the relatively boatey Camaro. Its also light, gifted with kickass brakes and a rather strong rear end, and stiff. So yeah, light wbeight, good handling, its strong structurally and through the drive train, and one thing that made it all possible:

The engine bay is HUGE. Its bigger than the cars these v8s come out of! The FC is practically the IDEAL swap chassis. It can fit almost any engine, its snugly against the firewall and behind the front wheels, the brakes kick ***, and the turbo rear end is really strong for a 8" ring and pinion gear. Plus, its not THAT hard to put in an aftermarket pumpkin like a Cobra, C4 'vette, or something like a vipers Dana 44 (9.2" if I remember right!!!)

A FD is even better than that, but MUCH more expensive. Its also pretty as hell and aerodynamic, and has those great double wishbones at all four wheels.

The FB is the lightest of the bunch and already has a solid axle, so its great for super high power swaps, dragging, or just being supercheap.

I also like the way a FC looks. It grows on you, and they look real nice from behind (haha... like a lot of women I know). The thing that really makes it work is the swap just works, and then some. Kukris iron block 350 RIPS and its a fairly mild one. Eliminate the rear steer, get tires and coil overs, and you can out autocross a STi and a Z06 if you got the skills. Hell, he cut a low 12 in the quartermile lifting off before the end... with no traction until 3rd gear anyway!

The swap is cheap, and for the money you put in you get the most bang out of any hybrid or new car I could think of at all, period. End of story. Tune the coilovers good, get good pads, race tires, and a spoiler/lip, and these cars could go to a track and humiliate some exotics. They simply kick ungodly ***, especially for the money it costs to make one. Hell, they can humiliate the vast majority of cars on a track anyway as is! FD V8s are monsters and HOT. FC v8s are monsters and more of a 80s type of subtle evil type thing going on... think of it as the bastard child of the miata and the viper, or miata and the corvette :P

The final thing that makes it all work is the community that popped up in toqrue central. Buncha guys with no hangups about getting the best of both worlds - mazda's chassi and domestic v8 power. You can get help there and theres a lot of knowledge and 'been there done that' going around.

The only thing comparable to this at all is a v8 z car... a 240Z would rip too (similar suspension setup) but the chassis is simply too weak to handle this without some serious reinforcement and a rollcage, its just not that stiff. So, for now, Id say a FC RX-7 is the best bang/buck for the motorsports freak in existance if you source your used engine and chassis right.

 

I did my swap because I have always loved RX7's. I have had RX7's since about 1996, my very frst car was a 1990 Turbo II. Now I have my RX7 as a toy car, not my only car so I cannot justify spending 15K+ on a toy car like an MK4 Supra or an FD. So I go another FC. I picked up my 1989 TII with 70k miles on it for right around 5k. I modded the car correctly, it had a Microtech LT8, 4 1000cc injectors, Walbro 255, wideband, fuel pressure gauge, EGT gauge, Greddy FMIC, running about 9psi on a stock turbo and stock motor. Well I got into it one day with the gas gauge below 1/4 and *POP*. I put another motor in it and it went bad due to assembly error by myself. After this I was just tired of messing with the car and I started parting it out. I was going to send a S5 TII chassis with 75k miles on it to the junk yard. About this time another friend of mine put an LT1 in his 10th, I had talked about doing it before but I didn't like the look of the LT1 and was afraid my car would sound like a Z71 pickup, and I didn't want to invest the money for a LS1. I started looking for another project car. I just do not like anything in the sub 8k$ price range but an FC. Nothing else has the interior, look, or function of an FC.

I decided until my buddies 10th was finished I would just part the car 1/2 way. I sold all the RE related stuff, Microtech, injectors, turbo, FMIC, till I basically had a rolling chassis sitting on some 10" wide wheels and Tiens. After his 10th was done I was amazed I liked the outcome. The car was fast, not as fast as my or his with the rotary, but his LT1 was a stock junkyard motor with 50k miles on it. I made my descision. I purchased my LT1 off ebay in the next month. I spent 2k on a motor that had 2,000 miles on it, forged bottom end, GM Hotcam kit, Fidanza 12# flywheel and a nice SPEC clutch, a $600 install kit, some $250 headers, and about $1100 in a 6spd Transmission. I also ended up buying about $1500 in NEW dealer parts because I wanted this to be bolt in and go with minimal troubleshooting. So far doing it the "expensive" way I have only come out of pocket after re-investing the part out money about $500. I now have a motor in my car that is almost new, basically stock other than a factory performance cam and some roller rockers and has dynoed 340rwhp on motor in the Fbody it came out of, oh yea and 550/600 on nitrous.

I see my V8-7 as having my cake and eating it to. I get the look and chassis of the FC without worrying everytime the car is stumbling at idle that I might need to put a motor in it. I should be down about 30rwhp at most over my previous setup, but I am up over 100ftlbs of torque and it is not nearly as volitile. And I can always add more with N20. Plus no boost leaks, hoses popping off etc etc etc

I was a bigtime rotary person, and I gave this a chance and its everything it could have been and more. Just saying, don't knock it till you try it.

 

No not me, You are aware there are tons of people that feel the same way I do about rotary engines and think you are douche just like I do they just don't voice it

 

Well not publicly anyway. lol They just don't have the nuts to come out and say what they think. They hide behind the rep points so theres no way we can slam them publicly. Even though we disagree on some things, I can still respect someone who can at least voice their opinion in a respectful way. I think the "rep" points are hilarious. Everytime I go into my user/cp I see that someone else has left me negative points because of this thread. I get a chuckle out of it. As if I would give 2 ***** about the opinion of someone who doesn't have the sack to say it where everyone else can read it. At least you're willing to debate the topic out in the open. (even if you're wrong!! lol j/k)

Peace.

Tim

 

Im not a douche, Im simply stating the facts as they are. From thermodynamic and practical standpoints Ive backed up everything Ive had to say, while you just repeat what you 'feel'. This isnt some group therapy forum for people with cognitive dissonance of their powerplants, its a kills section thread that degenerated into another piston vs rotary bitchfest. And, when this thread suffers its inevitable heat-death (sorta like 13bs ) another one will pop up somewhere else.

Make a point, or quit saying **** that doesnt mean anything. I see a lot of letters but you're not really saying anything! You might as well stand there flapping your arms (and your gums) saying VTEC VTEC VTEC!

BTW, a v8 doesnt sound like 'a truck' unless its got a specific exhaust and cam arrangement on it. Real mild cams, low revving powerbands and sissy exhausts (especially with lots of holes in them) are what generate that sound. Go get true duals, an X-pipe, a real cam and rev it over 5500 rpms from time to time and you'll feel different about its sound - its restrictive exhausts and truck/RV cams that make it sound like a truck!

 

lol, I haven't even checked my rep points since this thread, probably going to be pretty bad but oh well who cares. You know I may be wrong on this subject about v8 vs. rotary but you know what? everything I've said has been from experiance from my tII being the most reliable engine even though being beat up on by clueless people that didn't know the first thing about performing upgrades on the car to talking about why in my experiance the rotary has been a better performer. However Nihilanthic keeps saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Seems like he is a one sided type person that thinks his "view" is the only one that matters and the only one that is correct however he is very mistaken. I've tried to get out of this internet debate however he keeps dragging me back in witch is fine, so if you can't handle something I say then just stop right there so we can be done butting heads. Anyways I'm off to check my rep points, thanks for reminding me about that tim

 

I wouldn't argue with you that a rotary can be a very reliable engine. If its modded lightly (and correctly of course) and taken well care of. I daily drove my FD for about 2 years without a single problem. It even stayed fairly reliable after I modded it rather extensively. I think a 13b-rew with tastefull mods and good/conservative tuning can be extremely reliable. However, at a certain point...it becomes very unreliable. I think that number is around the 400whp point. Once you get to that number or above, the reliability begins to fall off exponentially. Thats really the only difference I see between the 2 engines. An LS1 isn't even modded all that much to get 400whp, plus whether you believe it or not...I've seen the tank get filled on my fathers car, and he gets damn near 30mpg on interstate cruising. Of course if you put your foot in it you won't get that kind of mileage...but I was only getting about 13mpg out of my 13b before I yanked it. I will always love the rotary engine, it is very unique, and very cool. However it is simply outclassed in performance potential and reliability when compared with an LS1. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, thats what makes the world go round.

 

What dont you get? Rotaries have heat inefficiency that makes them need to move more fuel-air to make the same power as a piston engine. Ive never seen one with good low end. They guzzle fuel. They need a whole rebuild if you knock.

Piston engines use their heat better, use less gas, can have great low end, and can knock so loud its like your popping popcorn and just need a hew headgasket thast easy to do and inexpensive. OBJECTIVE, not SUBJECTIVE. There is no view.

What part of that is a "view"? ITS OBJECTIVE. Ive made OBJECTIVE points that you simply dont accept. Your SUBJECTIVE View of rotaries being 'better' is fine and dandy but my OBJECTIVE points have been explained.

Your grammar sucks and you have yet to actually make a point! What point are you trying to make? 13BT is not a reliable engine. You saying it sthe most reliable enigne makes no sense... its the only one youve ******* used in that car! Your rambling replies are full of your subjective feelings and opinions on things and your dodging the facts.

Can a 13BT make power? Sure, it can. The point is a V8 can make as much or more power than a 13BT, even if you peg it as a power/weight ratio instead of just the wheel hp, with more lowend, better fuel economy and more reliability. THAT is the OBJECTIVE point that you simply dont seem to understand. ****, take the same ******* turbo thats on your 13BT and put it on a v8. Wham, the turbo is more than likely maxed the **** out and it has more low end, reliability, and fuel economy. You cant argue that away.

Fix your ******* grammar, make a CLEAR point, and back it up. Break up your points into paragraphs so that they can be followed without having to go back and try to make sense of what youre trying to say. Quit babbling your confused nonsense at us and giving us subjective bullshit. Yeah, a rotary can perform in your experience... as opposed to what? A STOCK v8 in a heavier car? I'm talking about a v8 in the same exact car the 13B and the oil cooler and **** came out of. And, if you mod a rotary, I can mod the v8, and then you lose.

Comparing a modded rotary in a lighter car to a stock v8 in a heavier car is apples to oranges, dipshit. And the **** if a v8 wouldn't be more reliable than a 13B making the same power. Put the same turbo on both and see what happens

 

Okay I wasn't going to reply to this but I can't help it. This whole Rotary vs. V8 has totally play'd out. Who cares what engine someone else decides to put in THEIR car? The only one I can think of is the person who is putting that motor into THEIR car. If you call yourself a puriest, than you stay with the rotary, if not you put whatever hell motor YOU want in your car. Honestly I don't even think it's about putting a V8 in the car but more about putting a American motor in a Japanese car. The reason I say this is because the people who put RB26's, SR20's or even 2JZ's into RX-7's don't get half the lip as someone who puts a LS1 or LS6 into one.

I have friends that have V8's in THEIR cars and while I would never do it to my car, who am I to bash someone who does decide to do it to THEIR car. The V8 swap is very clean and fits very nicely in the engine bay, I also had a chance to ride in one and I must say that the low end torque of it is AMAZING!! If you are not ready for it, the torque will almost lift your feet off the floor of the car.
I also do not think you can compare the V8 with the 13B, while you can make 400whp with both motors, it takes very little modification to make 400whp on a V8 compared to what it can take for 13B, and after add'ing a turbo to one it will almost always out perform a 13B or even a 20B.

As far as reliability and gas mileage, I think that depends almost entirely on the foot of the person driving, no motor can take extend'd abuse. Both cars in stock form get good gas mileage, both cars if highly modified suck @ reliability.

What we must understand is that a person can do whatever THEY want to THEIR car........ PERIOD!!! If you don't like it............don't do it to YOUR car.

BTW, if you can't tell I too am a Rotary puriest.