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Hi everyone, I have had my FD for about 3 months now and am working through getting it back into good running order. Car came with Apexi Intakes, a Borla Catback, coilovers, and wheels. I'm Changing all the oils, coolant, fuel filter, spark plugs, fixing the door handle and rebuilding the shifter. I was wondering if you guys could offer input on what I was going to do with my FD.
My ideal goal for this car is a 3-rotor swap so my plans were to buy parts that I could use on the car now and still be used when the swap was done. So I was going to do a Haltech 2500, bigger fuel pump and injectors, exhaust and cooling upgrades, and whatever else was needed. I knew that it would be a long and expensive project but I was in the mindset of doing it right the first time so that I don't have to redo it later.
However, after reading this thread, the OP seemed to have a similar idea to mine and it made me think if doing all this work would be worth it between now and the point in which I complete the 3-rotor swap. I know that 3-rotor swaps aren't easy or cheap but I would love to have one some day, so now I am thinking that I should instead build the car around a mild power increase on stock twins and maybe getting some BNR twins in the future so that way I can enjoy the car more now. Then if I get into the position for a 3-rotor swap I'll do it then.
I was thinking that my new upgrade path would be a PFC, Walbro 255, boost control, catless downpipe, bigger SMIC, Koyo N-flow, more/better grounds (do I actually need this?), injectors (maybe?), and Wideband in some order just based off of some of the threads here and links in the FAQs.
So what do you guys suggest, build the car for a potential 3-rotor or just do "simple" power mods to have a fun driver that I can have sooner?
Doing a mod isn't a dead-end in most cases. Also you don't have to only buy something once.
A few traps that people fall in to -
- Buy/hoard parts for a project, have car all taken apart for project, that's as far as it gets. Car gets sold as roller or crushed.
- You drop the car off at a shop with a blank check. 2 years later after $80,000 and much stress/bad communication/loaded up credit cards you finally get the car back. It runs but there's tons of small things that are impossible to find and fix. You get sick of it and sell at a huge loss/part out.
Believe it or not both of those situations happen a LOT. And there are more pitfalls there.
A 3-rotor swap is a HUGE HUGE HUGE deal. EVERYTHING is custom. At minimum you're looking at MONTHS of hard work and $20-30k of parts and labor MINIMUM, less if you are a master fabricator and have a garage with a TIG welder, band saw, sheet metal brake, etc. etc. etc.
On the PFC email list there's discussion about building the overpowered car. I think most everyone goes that route at some point - I did with my old FC and it wasn't even that fast. Once you cross a certain line with an FD you have a car that has zero traction, is insanely loud, stinks, is uncomfortable, can only be driven "fast" at way-illegal speeds, and can handily be beaten in a drag race by a Camaro or Challenger. Remember, the FD has NO TRACTION CONTROL or any aids like what modern cars do. If you have 600hp in an FD you're going to just generate tire smoke.
OK, sorry, soapbox off....
All that said, Banzai Racing has an amazing step-by-step build on a car with stock twins -
That's a car that's not too loud, doesn't stink, is VERY fast (350hp!) and is a blast to drive and will do it all day every day for miles to come.
The other thing is you can sell mods as time goes on. Many times you only pay a small amount if you will for the "use" of the part. Some parts are pretty steady on value - buy a PFC and Commander used for $600, you can probably turn around a few years down the road and sell it for $600 again. Then you have $600 to put towards a new ECU.
I would like to echo what Dale said, if you optimize the twins and get close to 350HP, it is hilarious to drive. Other than that, it should stay pretty reliable at that point.
If that's not enough, a properly sized modern single at 375-400HP is going to be about as far as I would recommend power wise. More than that is going to require loads of cash and parts to do it reliably.
3 rotor is amazing, but as Dale said 20-40k minimum to do it and even then there can be issues. Just ask Gmonsen or David Hayes about their experiences.
Dale's reply here should be a sticky! "You you're thinking of going with a 3(4)-Rotor."
If you're not just in it for the clout, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Dale, Thanks for the Banzai thread. It surprised me how easy it was to make that much power and for the relatively low cost. I like that it was all stuff I could do on my garage floor save for the tuning. I think I'll shelve the 3-rotor idea and maybe just find a Cosmo instead. I think going down a similar path to that will make my FD more enjoyable than slowly accumulating parts for the swap.
And Turbo, I agree with optimizing the twins. They are something very cool that few cars have and I think they are super cool. I do wonder if upgrading to BNRs will allow for some more power than the stock twins but I feel like they would also require more supporting mods, mainly fuel I would guess.
It seems Dale has already set you on the right path. If you want to know what it takes to properly build a 20b FD here is anther of my threads you should check out https://www.rx7club.com/banzai-racin...-93-fd-859856/
Hitachi 99 "sp" twins. I am very impressed so far. Little more efficient than the "regular" oem. Around 20 or 30 more hp and like the other 99 turbos they can handle higher boost. (Don't quote me on that... I will get shot on here quick lol). 13% more flow. I thought I read something about they push as much volume at 6500 rpm as the regular 93-95 push at 8k? I need to look for that article. So I don't get shot for that also.
Best part. OEM fit. Bolt right on. Everything new the way it was meant. Use the savings to upgrade cooling, water inj, ignition amp, intake, exhaust, or whatever. You can retain what the car was meant to be with an additional 120-150hp to the wheels.
FYI I would stick with oem ignition and get an amp and make sure your wires are good.
Banzai, Dale certainly is a treasure trove of knowledge. I have seen some of his posts and the detail he goes into with most everything is astounding. I do still love the 3-rotor but I don't need it in the FD, I love the motor no matter the chassis so finding a 20B Cosmo would be nice and probably cheaper than a swap.
Testrun, The SP twins are something I didn't know about. I knew about the 99 spec upgrade but not the SP. That may be done instead of BNRs, just have to see when he time comes. Thanks for the tip on ignition, I just got new wires and plugs because I don't think they have ever been changed. I only know of the HKS Twin power for spark amp but with them discontinued are there any other plug and play kits anyone knows about?
Banzai, Dale certainly is a treasure trove of knowledge. I have seen some of his posts and the detail he goes into with most everything is astounding. I do still love the 3-rotor but I don't need it in the FD, I love the motor no matter the chassis so finding a 20B Cosmo would be nice and probably cheaper than a swap.
Testrun, The SP twins are something I didn't know about. I knew about the 99 spec upgrade but not the SP. That may be done instead of BNRs, just have to see when he time comes. Thanks for the tip on ignition, I just got new wires and plugs because I don't think they have ever been changed. I only know of the HKS Twin power for spark amp but with them discontinued are there any other plug and play kits anyone knows about?
I am only aware of the twin power. It comes up for sale from time to time and I have never seen or heard of one failing. Anything can fail of course.
For most people, a set of good stock coils, NGK BUR9EQP spark plugs, stock type NGK wires, and a Twinpower is all you need. The FD has a good ignition system from the factory and the twin power makes it even better. It is somewhat harder to get a Twinpower these days since they aren't available new but they do show up used and they are pretty bulletproof.
Banzai coming in clutch again, this is a dyno comparison of adding the Twinpower -
Is the Twinpower still worth it over just upgrading the coils to a set of IGN1A? 4 new coils are only $300 from Summit where as Twinpowers are going for ~$400 nowadays. I guess if the plug n play aspect is worth the $100 difference.
Is the Twinpower still worth it over just upgrading the coils to a set of IGN1A? 4 new coils are only $300 from Summit where as Twinpowers are going for ~$400 nowadays. I guess if the plug n play aspect is worth the $100 difference.
Go for the IGN-1A. My HKS Twin Power was brand new, failed within a year...
The coils are only half the battle for an IGN-1A setup. You need a proper bracket and PROPER wiring to get it all going. Also there is a TON of fake coils out there so you have to be very careful with what you buy.
