1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

Ok so Ive owned an FD before, and I had a TON of problems under the hood. I also went through gas like it was going out of style. (I do a LOT of driving and only keep one car insured at a time so it was my DD, just as this project wil be)

So Im thinking of getting an FD chasis and doing the SR20DET or the 3SGTE swap.

the reasons for this:
1-it will be the same price as a close-to-stock FD with a working engine all said and done

2-with a couple mods (that i have incorporated into the cost of the swap) (intercooler, more boost, intake, exhaust) the swap will yeild a little more then stock 13BREW power

3- much better on gas (about 5-10mpg better from what ive read, and better under boost - 13BREW runs rich, even stock)

4-more reliable. NO I dont want to spend over $3000 making this 13BREW reliable like my last FD. (no i dont work on cars so a shop will do all the work, and yes the reliability mods cost that much for someone who actually wants the job done right)

5- I actually think that getting a swapped car worked on will be easier, as almost NOBODY in my area is actually qualified/knowledgable for working on a 13BREW. It really sucks when I have to spend 10 hours researching an issue then take it to the shop and tell them exactily what they need to do.

The only down side i can see are:
1- the sound (rotaries=SEXY, and 4 bangers=moms car IMO) :P

2- I will have to do a little more organizing and waiting for all this work to get done at my friends shop

So heres the money question: DO I SWAP IN AN SR20 OR A 3S???
Ive heard that 3S engines are a little stronger as far as internals, but i will have to get an altezza 6 spd tranny jimmy-rigged up (this could be expensive)
Sr20 sems to be an easy drop in, but as mentioned above may not be the better engine of the two...

rXzach93fd

iTrader: (1)

have you thought about rb or jz, sr is downgrading man, but i know how you feel about wanting something thats going to be reliable for you(not saying rotarys can't be)...

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

yea, ive thought about it, but the those engines are really expensive, and bad on gas, and really heavy, and ive heard that there is usually bump steer involved wich i really want to avoid....

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

LSX, SR, GNX, 2JZ are all good

i researched a 3SGTE swap into a first gen a while back and its definitely possible, but expensive to get power out of.

rXzach93fd

iTrader: (1)

im doing an rb right now, the engine is in without touching the steering, no bumpsteer, you just have to buy a different intake mani, all these engines are not a whole lot different in price, its about what you like, there is way more info in ls and jz swap, good luck with what ever you decide!

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

i just wanted to add im also a big fan of 4G63 swaps

Oun

iTrader: (3)

if they put 3sgte's into GT300 class supras then you know thats a good motor. the ls1 would take up less room than the RB or the 2J. some of the supras in the GT500 class use V8's from the landcruisers instead of the I6.

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

I would take a step back and look at what caused your problems in your previous engine. You will find that all the problems were ancilliary related and not the "engine" itself. If you can conquer those problems a 13brew with live up to everything you want.

Also you cannot tell me that a shop is going to do a proper swap for you for less than the money it would take you to make a decent reliable rotary engined FD.

junito1

Since ive been following street racing, I have seen atleast 3 to 4 sr20's die with bottom end knock.

So sr20's to me = same reliability as a rotary.
3sgt engine = expensive but way better than sr when compared stock to stock

I say go with a 1jz= 1500$ plus shipping and its 280ps already. with boost and iontercooler u are looking at 300hp plus very easily with way more torque

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

Well my last FD went through an engine, and all of the ancillary what nots, such as vaccume problems, selinoid problems, replaced the turbos, i had a vaccume leak at one time, and a few other problems....

an FD here with a good engine will run me about $12-14K all said and done. I can buy an FD with a blown engine or an automatic for about $5000+ swap cost and cost of engine= about $12-14K so i am really comparing apples to apples here.

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

WHA?! where can i get a 1jz for $1500+ shipping?!?! can you send me a link? I might actually consider this....

How is the 3SGTE better then the Sr20? do you have any technical info??

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

that sounds sweet! RB in an FD with no bump steer! Ive only seen an RB drop in for about $4500-5000. whereas the SR20 will cost me $2400. Have you seen an RB for closer to $3000???

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

You know I suggest you try and get a shop to do a complete engine swap for you that is so reliable all you have to do is change oil for under 7000$. Let us know how it works out.

The base problem is the twin turbo system in the FD, the secret in my mind to the FD is simplifying everything. I can agree that the FD can be an extremely frustrating car but its looks and handling should not justify trying to swap in another engine. The rotary engine is almost as simple as engines get, with simplification of the anciliaries and proper data acquisition systems as well as tuning I cannot see anything I would rather have.

However, given as you said you don't like to work on your car and noone in your area can perform the tuning I whole heartedly do recommend you to try what you are suggesting or run an FD at close to OEM levels of performance.

rXzach93fd

iTrader: (1)

i bought mine for $3000 from my local jdm importer

www.jdmhookup.com the owner's name is Dewey, he is a great guy, he is out of clips right now, bought he is making another trip to japan in december to bring back goodies

Miata_mx5

SR20 is aluminum block vs the 3s being an iron block.

There are so many variables here. Are you going to use an SR20 Redtop? SR20 Blacktop non VVTi? or S15 SR20 Blacktop VVTi? Response wise, an S15 SR with the S15 T28 Turbo kills a 3s-gte (unless it's a BEAMS motor). If you are planning to make only around 300-350 actual wheel horsepower, the SR is a much better choice than an RB. It has less weaknesses, and responds very well to modifications.

Don't waste your time and money with an RB other than an RB26 in an Rx7. The rest are all crap. All the pain of an RB, none of the performance. They are bottom feeder engines that most people in japan just throw away. 3000 is a lot of money for junk. RB's suffer from oil pump, oiling, sumping, and cooling issues. These issues are expensive to fix, and are common problems in the whole RB family. If you want big power, be ready to throw cash into it. They are not god's engines.

The 3s-gte is a more bombproof motor than an SR, but it's an iron block. So you are looking at extra weight too. Probably more of a PITA to fit into an FD.

The 1jz-gte is probably the most cost effective swap into an rx7. Pretty good reliability, good support, and not that expensive to get. The block is same as a 2jz-gte, but the rods are stouter. Front clips can be had for anywhere from 1800-2500 (depending on quality).

How much power, and money do you have is what it boils down to.

rXzach93fd

iTrader: (1)

i have had 3 rb25's all with bolt-ons making over 450whp and never had any of these problems you talk of, i use watercooled intercooler setups which helps

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

Its ok to want to swap a motor in hopes of it being more reliable. But don't kid yourself and think shops are going to be more willing to work on a swapped car.

And how much better on gas you think you can do? I put down 340HP at the wheels and do about 24mpg highway and 17-18 in town.

rotarymandan

iTrader: (15)

I hate to say it, but if you're going to swap out the 13B, then probably the most reliable way to get decent power would be LS1. Its been done more than SR20, and 3SGte, and stock for stock, has more power than a 2JZ, or RB motors. Don't get me wrong, all of those engines are great if done right, but you really start to see why some people go with the LS1, it is all around a good engine. Now if you really want one of the two engines you mentioned, I would say SR20. It is already used in a longintudinal layout, which will make it easier to get in right. Availability of parts is probably better than that of the 3s as well. Just my .02. Keep us posted!

Super82

iTrader: (1)

Like was mentioned, the problems with rotaries are not usually rotor related. Why not do an NA swap? A built NA can have plenty of power, especially if you go with a 20B.

junito1

I searched a little. ANd i could only find the engine only for 1500.

W/ ecu, trans,(un)cut harness for 2000$ or 2,100. plus shiping.


I say either go chevy v8. or 1jz.

Thats your best choice for reliability.( even though i hate american v8 sound)

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

thought about it, but it just wouldnt push enough power on a 13B and a 20B is just crazy expensive all said and done.

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

I bet your 340WHP engine cost WAAAAAAYYYY more then what im looking at spending. Im looking at about 280-300WHP and 22-28mpg for a total cost of about $5500.
To get a 13BREW build that will yield those numbers im looking at the turbo set-up $4000-5000 plus the engine $4000-5000 AND installation another $1000-2000

1.3Ldreamcar

iTrader: (1)

Here is the update guys!

Im waiting on the payout for the insurance settlement for my FD. Ill know how much i have to work with in a week or 2.

If I get what i think ill get, then I am seriously considering a LS1, as I really like NA for overall practicality and relaibility..... but the subframe kit, headers, etc are CRAZY expensive from hinston supercars....

SouthSideSlider

if you haven't thought about it there is someone running a 4G63 tubro motor in a FD3S. it was in modified mag awhile back.

http://www.maperformance.com/the-map...ance-fdsm.html

of course you dont need that big of a turbo

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

So then you would be not so intelligent to look for an engine swap just for that.

Simple original engine with bolts ons running 12psi will do that and safely.