When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I kind of agree with this statement , not completely though , HP numbers sell cars , period , you can tell me anything you want about balance , and weight , yes we care about that .
But the general public does not , they care about HP..........
on the other hand this car (or something similar ) WILL get made , simple reason is that
1.Mazda would not dump so much time and effort in the rotary engine , and just do all that research and then be like " oh ok we tried it , it didn't work , **** it no more " they might then as well take all that money and have wasted it on cheap hookers and booze
2.The rotary is their heritage , all things said the only Japanese manufacturer that won the lemans was mazda with the rotary engine , they are proud of that (so are most of us) and speaks huge volumes of mazda , they dont back off from a challenge , even when everyone tells them it`s a dead end , that's what Mazda is , and its the only thing that sets them apart as well
and having a rotary engine without a car is just a big no no
Everyone needs to chill also regarding the look , remember this isn`t an RX-7 or an RX-9 .....yet , its still the VISION , this is not the car you will buy this is a prototype , the production version (which might be called RX-7/RX-9) will have to be tweaked etc etc
Again guys speculation is all we have , I have two big fears , a cheap under powered car , or a insanely expensive overpowered car that`s not affordable , the power needs to be right
and i am sorry guys the , i know i am going to get burned big time for this , and yes i know mazda themselves said this , but seriously cayman ??.....who targets the cayman??...the cayman is an over glorified boxter , does it run good on a track ?, probably yes , does it have good balance , again probably yes , will it outrun Jethro`s mustang on the streets no way
when i think performance the cayman is way ..way ...waaaayyy back in those ranks
I too agree with a lot of what you've said here. But one thing I disagree with (and you called it) is the Cayman issue. Why wouldn't they target the Cayman? Take into consideration:
1. The Cayman wasn't around when the FD was introduced.
2. The FD was not built to compete directly with the 911. The 968 was more in line with the FD at the time. It just so happened that, with the FD's power to weight ratio, balance and handling, it was able to run with the 911, respectably.
3. Mustangs, Camaros, etc have always been available with more power than Rx7s of the same era, and were usually cheaper.
NOW, if we look at Mazda's track record with the Rx7 (all generations) it has ALWAYS been able to "punch above" its figurative weight class, and in the FD's case, FAR above its weight class. And here, Mazda is targeting the most nimble and well balance Porsche available, which can be optioned out to reach 0-60 in 4.4 sec (911 and Vette territory) I might add.
I think it's safe to assume that Mazda is shooting to beat the target, rather than simply match it. If this is the case (and I mean, why wouldn't it be?) I say it's within reason to expect the new Rx7 (that's what it'll be called) to compete with "bigger" targets than the ones Mazda has set...just as it ALWAYS has.
I trust Mazda with this.
Also, I hear what you're saying about people comparing it to what they want. But remember, the original trio was really the Rx7, Supra and the Z....not the GTR. The GTR was more of a 968/911 situation that I mentioned earlier.
Uhh Chrysler actually increased production of the hellcat because of so much demand (relatively speaking). It's by far the cheapest 700hp car you can get. Cheap power sells well in the US.
$35-$42k price tag. That's what I'm sticking to at this point.
2,8XX with ~350hp is starting to feel more realistic in my mind, now.
When my FD (was still rotary) and made 400whp it felt like the perfect amount of controllable power for the car. I think anything more than that would have made the car less "streetable".
So...2,8XXlbs, ~350hp @ $35-$42k maybe, I'm sold.
I'll take mine in white, please.
I'm going to put down my pre-order at the dealership here, shortly. Just waiting on holiday checks to roll in. ;P
They know what they've got, they're just waiting to knock everyone's socks off with it. Watch....
QFT.
This is why the concept car was mainly a design exercise.... Everyone else seems to think it's the other way around.
Originally Posted by YELLOWGSLSE
I say it's within reason to expect the new Rx7 (that's what it'll be called) to compete with "bigger" targets than the ones Mazda has set...just as it ALWAYS has.
And about the side port 3 rotor, Back in 2009 mazda filed some patents about the 16X and some possible improvements to it. In several of these patents the center exhaust port was split (see picture below). You still end up with two exhaust ports next to each other, but there's no longer a true "siamese" port. This should mean better exhaust design as the designers can choose to merge the exhausts from both rotors at an arbitrary distance from the ports. Also the high heat in the center ports could actually turn out to be useful to light a cat as soon as possible.
No trunk openings. OK, not much room for a trunk with the muffler right behind the seats. Perhaps Mazda increased rear rigidity by not including a trunk.
Long hood line with very short proposed engine. Perhaps Mazda incorporated a frunk instead of a trunk. Lets hope the 16X is pretty like 13BREW and not a plastic cover like 13B-MSP, because if its a frunk you will see it every time you put something in there.
Note there is actually a cut line from the front wheel arch to the door opening at the level of the "Skyactive-R" badge/vent. The only other cut lines I see on the front are around the headlights.
This is a one piece front pivoting front end like old Jag or Corvette.
The adult looking RX-Vision shares similar proportions with Viper and FT-1 while making them look like bloated pep boy's-d out/riced out toys. Much like the FD and the Viper and Supra of the time.
Idk just the new Rx7 just doesn't have the personality of its previous glory it looks too much like a luxury car now and straying away from its aggressive nature sports car vibe
I'd also wager that this time around it will be much easier to mod. Our fuel systems in the fd stunk. Add two psi and you need more fuel and expensive supporting mods. I bet you can uncork these and slap a new map in there via a flash or something as simple as that and you can raise the boost 5-8psi. So in essence spend 50k on the car and drop 1500 in mods and run with 911s.
The FD fuel system is actually pretty damn robust---- the car made about 215 rwhp stock, and the factory 550cc/850cc injector combo were often pushed to upper 300s rwhp, approaching 400 rwhp often in the early days by PFS. The rails, regulator, and pulsation dampener are robust, although there was an early recall to the primary to secondary rail connection to upgrade to a banjo bolt. Dampener does/did need replacing if 20 years old as they can leak. Pump was good for a fair amount more power over stock (50% ish) and the underbody rails are such that you can run 500 rwhp through them.
What you really mean is that the FD comes with a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor which doesn't automatically compensate for added air volume and air pressure (boost) with more fuel like a MAF system does.
That's what led to lean conditions, detonation, and cracked/shipped Apex Seals.
It's moving forward, evolving, it's the FD....improved, I like it and honestly I think it was a very difficult task to improve (1 up) the design of the FD, I mean ****, it still looks good today.
Style wise, I think Mazda did it right
Also someone commented that the car is not big, it's wider supposedly than the FD, but not much longer, does anybody have the measurements side by side?.
lol...this "car" will NEVER be made.
Period.
Jesus people...when will you learn? Mazda is NOT in the position to bring a car like this into production.
It will never be C.A.R.B. compliant, and without California sales...there is NO production.
I've seen hundreds and hundreds of concept cars revealed at shows like this and most never make it into production.
And frankly...who the **** would want this car? It is SEVERELY underpowered, it is an embarrassment. My God, grandma's grocery-getter Buick would stomp it in a drag race! If you can't bring 400+ hp plus big torque to the game for your "halo" car, don't even try.
Some elements of the design ARE 'pleasing to the eye", but totally impractical.
So when one...two...five years more have gone by and there is NO "new RX-7" (again!), maybe...just maybe the message will finally be loud and clear.
And yeah yeah yeah...go ahead and post your "But Mr. Washimotozoto HIMSELF has confirmed it!" I'm sure there are 30 or more "stories" that will "confirm" the car.
'Jack and the Beanstalk' is a pretty good 'story', doesn't make it real.
Somebody needs to get laid
I kid, I kid
Edit, not sure if everyone has seen this tidbit of info, a team of 50 Original Rotary Gangstas:
Idk just the new Rx7 just doesn't have the personality of its previous glory it looks too much like a luxury car now and straying away from its aggressive nature sports car vibe
I always felt that the sports cars proceeding the 93 release of the RX7 all tried to copy its timeless shape and make their own. Look at the late model firebirds/trams ams, camaros of the same year, and styling direction of the vette and viper. If anything, sports cars tried to mimic the FD. So, when we look at the Vision and compare it to other modern sports cars of our day and consider it's being displayed next to cars that have been copying styling from the FD for 20 years then it doesn't seem to be as original. Especially if the new car is supposed to be reminiscent of Mazdas past rotary successes.
What made me love the latest rendition of Viper so much was that I could see so much of the FD inside of it. It's like they just tweaked and "Viper-ized" it.
Last edited by DocHoliday89; 11-01-15 at 11:27 AM.
I commented in the other thread about how I can't help but like the Yamaha car more. Mazda-Yamaha have joined forces before...sure the Miller Cycle sucked, but the two companies are familiar with one another.
Mazda, take the Yamaha car and find a way to toss a 16x into it. Done. Lightweight, not bad looking, unique, and damn, the interior is pretty cool...almost like a poor man's Zonda.
Plus Mazda will have its Rotary powered car for the 50th anniversary of the Cosmo, which is 2017.
I commented in the other thread about how I can't help but like the Yamaha car more. Mazda-Yamaha have joined forces before...sure the Miller Cycle sucked, but the two companies are familiar with one another.
Mazda, take the Yamaha car and find a way to toss a 16x into it. Done. Lightweight, not bad looking, unique, and damn, the interior is pretty cool...almost like a poor man's Zonda.
Plus Mazda will have its Rotary powered car for the 50th anniversary of the Cosmo, which is 2017.
To each his own, but I wouldn't be caught dead in that thing, the roofline doesn't match the car and the front looks way to "blade runner" for me, the vision's lines (or lack thereof) are way better
ThUnDeRbErK, I was saying that the people who trash talk the Rx8 are the ones missing the point, not Mazda. I own a modded FD with upgraded suspension, and I've driven the Rx8 R3 several times. I think the R3 the best, most well balanced sports car I've ever driven. And that was my point.
The fact that Mazda built a car that drove the way the Rx8 did, and was still actually practical, means that they succeeded in THEIR goal. The car was not meant to replace the Rx7 as a pure, raw, racecar for the street. I think there are a LOT of people (on this forum, and in general) who never understood that.
And as for the Rx Vision and its size...it's a concept. It really shouldn't be judged for it's preparation, or lack thereof, for public roads, or practicality. It isn't "supposed" to be completely ready for production....it's a concept. It's purpose is to show the direction of the company or it's products , in an extreme, and exciting way. I would think this would be obvious.
The car's chief designer has even stated that, before the car reaches production, several aspects would have to be altered, or taken into consideration, including wheel size, overall dimensions, and weight. Also, Mazda has also said directly, that we should look to the Cayman for the direction of the new Rx7. The car will not challenge the new NSX, LFA, GTR, etc.
And again, I think we should trust Mazda. they know what they're up against. This is the RX7 we're talking about here! This is THE CAR for them, even more so than the Miata, if you ask me. This is not something new that they're trying out, like the Rx-8 was. They KNOW they can't afford to screw this up. After this long, if Mazda is putting themselves out there the way they have with this concept, and generating this much excitement, then please believe they know they've got something BIG up their sleeves. Everything about this screams supreme confidence on the part of Mazda.
They know what they've got, they're just waiting to knock everyone's socks off with it. Watch....
RX-8 never be successor of the RX-7. I agree with you and your general view. RX-7 was expensive than m3 in 1993.
Which Cayman ? Cayman gt4 ? or standart Cayman ? Cayman or Audi tt I am not intersted in these models because they are not pure cars maybe cayman gt4 is different.
Again if they are targeting Cayman why they build a concept like that. I remember RX-01 and rx evolv they were not looking expensive. But RX Vision is really have ***** i mean that car never be cheap even it was produced.
For example people similares between new nsx and new r8 because of their designing languages and shapes. But in price range new nsx is 150k $ around r8 is 115k $ us prices.
Mazda smaller than Porsche and targeting and sale strategy's and abilities of these companies are different. Producing car with low cost is really hard work. Producing lightweight car is really hard work. Carbon monoque or producing a car with carbonfiber parts are really expensive. Generally they use aluminium for lightweighting cars.
Targeting Alfa 4C it is more realistic for me. If they are going to build any rx in future. And 4C us price is around 55k $
Wish to see great news in future we will see what will happen.
2. The FD was not built to compete directly with the 911. The 968 was more in line with the FD at the time. It just so happened that, with the FD's power to weight ratio, balance and handling, it was able to run with the 911, respectably.
It had the exact same 0-60 and quarter mile time as the 911 Carrera GT that cost almost twice as much.
But I guess that's what you mean by meeting bigger targets than it set, but it's worded weird.
I expect them a car that performs around the same or better than a Cayman(maybe not the GT4), M2, or 4C, but for under 50k or even under 40k.
Probably better that the base be under 40k but they have some expensive carbon fiber and DCT options to bring it up.
Get a 10k premium for auto buyers taking the DCT.
Its funny how similar this thread is to the Ford GT forums after the new one got unveiled...
"I HATE IT!"
"It doesn't look enough like the old one"
"Too expensive"
"It needs more pistons(in this case rotors)"
lol. If this car came out tomorrow, I'd be at the dealer first thing in the morning
Idk just the new Rx7 just doesn't have the personality of its previous glory it looks too much like a luxury car now and straying away from its aggressive nature sports car vibe
I'm going to quote someone but I'm not sure who it is:
"Honestly, despite perhaps a teeny bit of Callum in the silhouette, I think the most uniquely defining characteristic of this design is that it utterly lacks the hard edges that define those designs. This one is a flowing, nebulous thing, not a taught, muscular thing. I really like it."
Some people just hate the styling for all new cars, and hate new stuff. The vast majority of people outside this board seem to think it's one of the most beautiful modern cars. It'll sell.
I'm surprised they like the FD when it's all round and smooth.
It looks a heck of a lot like the '99 year FD but with a lower roof line, slightly longer hood, and some few crisp lines along with the smooth roundness.
10-31-15, 09:06 PM
is that the FD comes with a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor which doesn't automatically compensate for added air volume and air pressure (boost) with more fuel like a MAF system does.
