The RX-7 confirmed to be in the pipeline for 2017---RX-Vision Unveil!!
10-29-15, 04:02 PM
#2826
Ironically, he's been here on the 7club since LONG before the current level of kid gloves and "play nice with the newbs" was a norm.I don't think you need to coach Montego on how internet forums can be a harsh mistress, as he was around when this place really WAS for those with thick skin!!
How was that?
Edit- I guess I better be explicit: I'm only joking so please don't take it seriously.
Last edited by Montego; 10-29-15 at 05:57 PM.
10-29-15, 04:45 PM
#2827
lol to think I actually rewrote my comment and censored it. My original comment was along the lines of panties getting up in a wad blah blah... But then I thought. There is no need to be a dick lol
Thank you I think I just may enjoy it here. Though it may take some getting used to the whole lack of censorship because I get to hide behind my computer. But let me give it a stab: Who the **** do you think you are trying to tell me about the internet Mister 175 posts and ****?
How was that?
Thank you I think I just may enjoy it here. Though it may take some getting used to the whole lack of censorship because I get to hide behind my computer. But let me give it a stab: Who the **** do you think you are trying to tell me about the internet Mister 175 posts and ****?
How was that?
Please don't turn this thread in to a flame war
10-29-15, 04:45 PM
#2828
Well, they just completely re-Wanked the rotary into the stroker 16X so it is useless to speculate on its lack of torque (the traditional 10A based NA rotary problem), but we do know low rpm torque will be greatly improved.
Gaining low rpm torque without sacrificing efficiency and reliability is the whole point of re-engineering and re-tooling for the 16X.
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I personally don't have a problem with Mazda targeting the Cayman instead of the 911 turbo or GT3 for the initial 300hp release. Leave that to the GTR.
Targeting halo cars will lead to a whole bunch of compromises I don't prefer. High cost, lower sales, more driver aids, more weight.
I think it is a better strategy to offer a 450hp model later that will *selectively* target those halo cars in *specific* areas for marketing. Those areas would probably be the traditional Mazda strengths (skidpad, slalom, braking), but hopefully extend to track lap times.
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It sort of sounds like the chassis is more production ready that a concept from some of the recent Mazda quotes.
If that is true, we can see the entire front end must be composite to incorporate the curves. When they say they will employ the same light weight strategy as with the new MX-5 that would lead to a lighter than RX-8 chassis.
2017 NA model 300hp/300tq and 2,600lbs would be fun.
2020 high power model 450hp/400tq and 2,800 lbs would be fast. With Mazda's traditional handling strengths it could be blisteringly fast on the track.
Gaining low rpm torque without sacrificing efficiency and reliability is the whole point of re-engineering and re-tooling for the 16X.
------------
I personally don't have a problem with Mazda targeting the Cayman instead of the 911 turbo or GT3 for the initial 300hp release. Leave that to the GTR.
Targeting halo cars will lead to a whole bunch of compromises I don't prefer. High cost, lower sales, more driver aids, more weight.
I think it is a better strategy to offer a 450hp model later that will *selectively* target those halo cars in *specific* areas for marketing. Those areas would probably be the traditional Mazda strengths (skidpad, slalom, braking), but hopefully extend to track lap times.
------------
It sort of sounds like the chassis is more production ready that a concept from some of the recent Mazda quotes.
If that is true, we can see the entire front end must be composite to incorporate the curves. When they say they will employ the same light weight strategy as with the new MX-5 that would lead to a lighter than RX-8 chassis.
2017 NA model 300hp/300tq and 2,600lbs would be fun.
2020 high power model 450hp/400tq and 2,800 lbs would be fast. With Mazda's traditional handling strengths it could be blisteringly fast on the track.
10-29-15, 04:56 PM
#2829
Rotary Enthusiast
I agree with some of this, however I still think the 300Hp will not cut it for this branch of cars, you have cars low pricing or better said in the speculated price range, that will be running way more power.
And the big problem with starting with low power lightweight cars (when modding) is once it makes power, everything else starts to break, it's simply not build strong enough, again my 2 cents here
And the big problem with starting with low power lightweight cars (when modding) is once it makes power, everything else starts to break, it's simply not build strong enough, again my 2 cents here
10-29-15, 05:29 PM
#2831
Not too big of a fan of the styling but one thing for sure is that it makes a statement. My biggest hope is that the next rotary production car is actually a viable option for engine transplants.
Last edited by Montego; 10-29-15 at 06:05 PM.
10-29-15, 06:04 PM
#2832
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
I agree with prthan. I read that article about the Cayman. My take away is it's a 320turboed 16x.
I was thinking the same as fritz but as I thought a little more it would be nice to have new technology and a decent starting point for aftermarket parts. The vision is growing on me. I like the simplicity. I like the side and rear view. But the front is near awful for me. We will see what the final product looks like. Looking back aren't the concepts more aggressive than the production level trim. If that's the case for this car that might not be good.
I was thinking the same as fritz but as I thought a little more it would be nice to have new technology and a decent starting point for aftermarket parts. The vision is growing on me. I like the simplicity. I like the side and rear view. But the front is near awful for me. We will see what the final product looks like. Looking back aren't the concepts more aggressive than the production level trim. If that's the case for this car that might not be good.
Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; 10-29-15 at 07:48 PM.
10-29-15, 07:08 PM
#2835
While I agree that the car looks clean and uncluttered I have my doubts that that will continue into the nitty gritty. I have no doubt there will be CAN all over the car which is notoriously difficult and expensive to bypass. DI makes tuning difficult both from a flow and upgrading parts perspective but also from things such as timing it and other nuanced things which have a broad effect on output.
Basically, I don't see the car being all that tuner friendly and given what RX-7's were in the past I don't see it being much of a winner with only low weight going for it. I think it very glaring that the economy version of the Mustang has 300hp and 31+ MPG. Granted, a bit apples and oranges but still, IMO, relevant.
I was going to make a funny joke to your latter post but you edited it too 
. Either way, much better, although don't let your e-peen, I mean post count, get too large or you won't be able to move around 
Basically, I don't see the car being all that tuner friendly and given what RX-7's were in the past I don't see it being much of a winner with only low weight going for it. I think it very glaring that the economy version of the Mustang has 300hp and 31+ MPG. Granted, a bit apples and oranges but still, IMO, relevant.
lol to think I actually rewrote my comment and censored it. My original comment was along the lines of panties getting up in a wad blah blah... But then I thought. There is no need to be a dick lol
Thank you I think I just may enjoy it here. Though it may take some getting used to the whole lack of censorship because I get to hide behind my computer. But let me give it a stab: Who the **** do you think you are trying to tell me about the internet Mister 175 posts and ****?
How was that?
Edit- I guess I better be explicit: I'm only joking so please don't take it seriously.
Thank you I think I just may enjoy it here. Though it may take some getting used to the whole lack of censorship because I get to hide behind my computer. But let me give it a stab: Who the **** do you think you are trying to tell me about the internet Mister 175 posts and ****?
How was that?
Edit- I guess I better be explicit: I'm only joking so please don't take it seriously.
. Either way, much better, although don't let your e-peen, I mean post count, get too large or you won't be able to move around
10-29-15, 09:09 PM
#2837
Please somebody help!!!
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I personally don't have a problem with Mazda targeting the Cayman instead of the 911 turbo or GT3 for the initial 300hp release. Leave that to the GTR.
Targeting halo cars will lead to a whole bunch of compromises I don't prefer. High cost, lower sales, more driver aids, more weight.
2017 NA model 300hp/300tq and 2,600lbs would be fun.
2020 high power model 450hp/400tq and 2,800 lbs would be fast. With Mazda's traditional handling strengths it could be blisteringly fast on the track.
Targeting halo cars will lead to a whole bunch of compromises I don't prefer. High cost, lower sales, more driver aids, more weight.
2017 NA model 300hp/300tq and 2,600lbs would be fun.
2020 high power model 450hp/400tq and 2,800 lbs would be fast. With Mazda's traditional handling strengths it could be blisteringly fast on the track.
10-29-15, 09:25 PM
#2839
if it came turbo charged It may have a chance of taking over for the FD as the halo car for mazda .
Or maybe even a 3 rotor. But if its just a naturally aspirated 2 rotor standing at 300 hp . it will be a better car than those in its class yes.. Like the Z , and probably be on par with the boxter .
BUT it will miss out on the tunning world as like with all turbo cars .. making alot more power is as easy as freeing up the intake exhaust and a couple PSI increase and there you have it .
a Turbo would also help with Efficiency , and Low end torque ..
BUT the real bane.. is how will it affect reliability....
Or maybe even a 3 rotor. But if its just a naturally aspirated 2 rotor standing at 300 hp . it will be a better car than those in its class yes.. Like the Z , and probably be on par with the boxter .
BUT it will miss out on the tunning world as like with all turbo cars .. making alot more power is as easy as freeing up the intake exhaust and a couple PSI increase and there you have it .
a Turbo would also help with Efficiency , and Low end torque ..
BUT the real bane.. is how will it affect reliability....
10-29-15, 09:48 PM
#2840
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Dont get me wrong , if mazda pops a 4 rotor in there i will take it , **** yes .
however i think a 3 rotor is more feasible , its been more tested , heck it was even in production .
also all this is assuming the 16X is "rotor scalable" .
honestly i am a bit over the 2 rotor idea , i think it lacks torque , plus this body looks somehow more "mature " i think its time mazda pulled out the big guns , besides its a shame to have that tech and not use it .
Would a three rotor N/A setup be more cost effective than a 2 rotor turbo setup , it certainly be less complex , i dont know what do you guys think ?
however i think a 3 rotor is more feasible , its been more tested , heck it was even in production .
also all this is assuming the 16X is "rotor scalable" .
honestly i am a bit over the 2 rotor idea , i think it lacks torque , plus this body looks somehow more "mature " i think its time mazda pulled out the big guns , besides its a shame to have that tech and not use it .
Would a three rotor N/A setup be more cost effective than a 2 rotor turbo setup , it certainly be less complex , i dont know what do you guys think ?
As for a N/A 3 rotor vs a turbo 2, I'd have to take the the first option as the second has been played out since its inception in the mid 80s. Though with a 20b/24x reliability when aftermarket turbo'ing would be a problem (a la RX-8). Ideally a turbo'd 24X has the highest appeal to me, and with a car like that from the factory I wouldn't even consider any other cars (no Z06, Viper, FT1, etc.)
There's no way a N/A 16X is making anywhere near 300 lbs/ft of torque; realistically 2/3rds of that.
10-29-15, 10:21 PM
#2841
I'm still seeing a lack of point if the power isn't there, even with low weight. Whether from different, more established (new) options, or simply no point in upgrading (used options). Basically, I'm not seeing what it brings to the table other than Mazda and Rotary.
10-29-15, 10:26 PM
#2842
SC'd RX8
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The arms race has been going on for at least 3 years already stateside... As to the previous arms race, lots of other reasons for its decline beyond simply "arms race" but taking into account that it started mid-late 80's I can't exactly say its end was premature.
I'm still seeing a lack of point if the power isn't there, even with low weight. Whether from different, more established (new) options, or simply no point in upgrading (used options). Basically, I'm not seeing what it brings to the table other than Mazda and Rotary.
I'm still seeing a lack of point if the power isn't there, even with low weight. Whether from different, more established (new) options, or simply no point in upgrading (used options). Basically, I'm not seeing what it brings to the table other than Mazda and Rotary.
But thats enough speculation for me, I'm gonna duck out until they release more specs
Last edited by Rotr8; 10-29-15 at 10:33 PM.
10-29-15, 10:41 PM
#2844
I would consider Mazdas over aching theme of FUN sports cars above all. Every model they produce now whether Miata or SUV is in line with that theme, and I feel that this would be no different and that the light weight story is probably all they need to pitch. They already have us on the rotary aspect. Reading through their press kit release they arent worried about aligning/competing products with other OEM
But thats enough speculation for me, I'm gonna duck out until they release more specs
But thats enough speculation for me, I'm gonna duck out until they release more specs
Last edited by valley; 10-29-15 at 10:45 PM.
10-29-15, 10:56 PM
#2846
It's never fast enough...
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A few months ago they were proudly displaying a pic showing 237hp on their FB page. A lot of people started laughing at them. You know what happened? All the real car people came out and shut the hp mongers down.
But Alpa is a different animal with a different heritage. Few fools buy them. Everytime I see one the driver is seriously enjoying it. Its a shame they dont come with a manual, but their twin turbo sedan does.
If the next RX7 comes with lower than average hp, we can only hope the Mazda followers will rise up and defend the super less weight advantage of the new 7.
10-29-15, 11:24 PM
#2848
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I'm not going to give up on Mazda. They were twenty years ahead of their time in the 90's, and I'm sure they can do it again.
The little we know about the RX-Vision seems promising. The style will obviously be altered here and there, but it's SO nice to see them sticking to a FD feel. It's about time one of the Japanese manufacturers listens to the crowd.
I'm excited. I hope it doesn't go the way of the LFA, but with a new NSX and 'Supra' on the way, we may relive the 90's hype.
The little we know about the RX-Vision seems promising. The style will obviously be altered here and there, but it's SO nice to see them sticking to a FD feel. It's about time one of the Japanese manufacturers listens to the crowd.
I'm excited. I hope it doesn't go the way of the LFA, but with a new NSX and 'Supra' on the way, we may relive the 90's hype.
10-30-15, 01:23 AM
#2849
I think we can pretty much squash the 3-rotor talk 
16x is MSP i believe. The MSP renesis has inherent issues with heat. the center exhaust port sees basically constant exhaust pulse. When looking at the header under load the center port is always a brighter cherry red. Something I believe leads to serious complications with oil control rings and coolant seals. To me the only way to to get a 3rotor that is remotely reliable is to go back to the ports being in the rotor housing... But there goes emissions.
Most likely a 16x with a turbo. Hopefully they can do a little something for exhaust flow. The 90degree angles the exhaust has to make to exit the MSP just adds to heat/backpressure. We'll need a decently sized turbine housing as well. I personally would pay premium for EFR to provide the turbo Well, here I go with the wishful thinking.
16x is MSP i believe. The MSP renesis has inherent issues with heat. the center exhaust port sees basically constant exhaust pulse. When looking at the header under load the center port is always a brighter cherry red. Something I believe leads to serious complications with oil control rings and coolant seals. To me the only way to to get a 3rotor that is remotely reliable is to go back to the ports being in the rotor housing... But there goes emissions.
Most likely a 16x with a turbo. Hopefully they can do a little something for exhaust flow. The 90degree angles the exhaust has to make to exit the MSP just adds to heat/backpressure. We'll need a decently sized turbine housing as well. I personally would pay premium for EFR to provide the turbo
Well, here I go with the wishful thinking.
10-30-15, 01:41 AM
#2850
While I agree that the car looks clean and uncluttered I have my doubts that that will continue into the nitty gritty. I have no doubt there will be CAN all over the car which is notoriously difficult and expensive to bypass. DI makes tuning difficult both from a flow and upgrading parts perspective but also from things such as timing it and other nuanced things which have a broad effect on output.
Basically, I don't see the car being all that tuner friendly and given what RX-7's were in the past I don't see it being much of a winner with only low weight going for it. I think it very glaring that the economy version of the Mustang has 300hp and 31+ MPG. Granted, a bit apples and oranges but still, IMO, relevant.
Basically, I don't see the car being all that tuner friendly and given what RX-7's were in the past I don't see it being much of a winner with only low weight going for it. I think it very glaring that the economy version of the Mustang has 300hp and 31+ MPG. Granted, a bit apples and oranges but still, IMO, relevant.
DI on other vehicles has been solved first off with HP fuel pump upgrades. Secondly, with upgraded injectors. The upgraded injectors aren't always an option. That's the case with my mazdaspeed6. Instead, PI kits are available. I personally have a **** ton of meth and some really large nozzles
Build it and they will come.