Your right but that wasn't the point of the comparison. They were comparing a typically modded single turbo fd to the v8 swap version making similar power in the 400+ wheel hp range. Displacement wise, you would need a NA 4 rotor to compare to the V8 as its techincally a 5.2l A 4 rotor (when compared to the V8), the cost would be $$$$$$$ and fuel economy would be horrendous.

 

You're a really knowlegable guy with an open mind and I respect you for that! This Tuned "episode" just goes down as yet another single person's opinion on rotary vs. V8. Fortunately, we are all RX7 fans here, we all love our cars for different reasons and get to have our own opinions on them. I think everyone wishes that Matt's opinion was better supported by facts, because both "sides" think more facts would have made a better case for which car was "better". It's a conundrum that I feel will never be definitively solved but only in each individuals mind. I do think that Zbrown makes a pretty good case that there are a LOT (if not the majority, one of which is myself) V8 RX7 owners who were previously rotary owners. The general consensus I have seen is that the benefits outweigh the shortcomings that have been mentioned in this thread. Of course, most if not all V8 RX7 owners do not subscribe to the "engine made the car" train of thought to the RX7 which can be a huge factor to a purist. It's just a wheel that keeps turning...

 

^ I appreciate the complement. Having some actual experience does help as I can tell you have quite a bit yourself. It would have been nice to have had a 2 part series with a track event in a 2nd video. That's were "Pure" sports cars belong anyways.

 

I mean...objectively it is a better street car with a v8 in it. Car and Driver would rank it higher in a review without question. I'm not sure anyone could argue the opposite without starting to talk about subjectives.

It's not the same car though. Not everyone wants the same thing. A GTR is better and faster than my car but I don't want one.

It's been proven that a well set up FD is going to be a very competitive car regardless.

A v8 swap tends to take the rx7 to a performance level that the majority of rotary cars will never reach and if done properly has essentially zero downsides besides putting a lot of money into a 20 year old car. Thankfully the cars themselves are actually worth something.

 

These threads are always such a thrill

 

Not at all man. He put us on the spot there and I get it.
Hopefully one day we can run the cars on the freeway, ill be excited to do so.
The wastegate re-route changed the car. Kinda wish I had done before the shoot.




To some extent I agree with Daniels comments. If your looking for just big #'s / $ the LS platform is untouchable. Even when comparing to other V8's. I love LS motors, they are amazing and represent America proudly. But also, its a 6+ liter motor which shouldnt surprise people when they make big numbers. Rotaries can make big numbers too, thats why I didnt want this to be a HP war because thats all it is, #'s. For me its the X factor about the rotary that keep me interested. Not just cause its different, f*ck that. The X factor is what I wanted to bring out by having Matt drive the car but he kept it objective which is frankly boring in this case.

BTW I am not just a rotary guy, I love automobiles in general. I thought Daniels car was sick too, just cause I wouldnt do it to a Rx-7 doesnt mean it isnt respectable.

 

This has been the most civilized v8 vs rotary discussion I've ever seen....touche rx7club, touche.

While owning my perception of the perfect FD and having ridden in several swapped FDs they both bring different things to the table. It's like comparing a Latina to a Brazilian girl, they're both gorgeous, in the end it just comes down to what compliments you the most.

The low end torque of an LS FD is outstanding, a rotary will always struggle to match that reliably (although turbo technology is closing that gap quickly), and the balance of the rotary at high rpms is very rewarding/encouraging. In street trim, a v8 would make such a lovely daily, but come track time...after conquering any underlying reliability issues it's hard to deny the outstanding performance of Mazdas' in their pure form.

 

Just wondering, but in the video it looks as though your hotside IC pipe has cracked where it meets the end tank. Is that just how it looks or is there an issue?

 

Its just carbon/markings from the welds which i never cleaned up. No cracks.

Btw to everyone whos confused over my name. My first name is Armen middle name is Joseph.

 

I believe that the 13b rotary can be just as competitive as any engine swap with the right combination.

I'm going to say it because no one else said it but everyone else is thinking it. If you want a V8 LS motor in your car get a Corvette.

Fiddling about with a rotary engine is part of the ownership it made me love the car in more ways than I ever thought I would. I never used to do more than oil changes and brakes until I owned an RX7. 8 years later and I would say I know enough about the car where I believe it can be reliable.

But heck, I like sequential turbos the way the mazda intended it to be. I think as far as being worth more in the future (even though I really don't care about that I bought to enjoy it) It would be best valued in a close to stock form even though it wasn't most reliable in that form. Of course it has it's quirks that's part of the ownership and a part that I quite like.

You think it's expensive owning an RX7? Try owning an M car that's outside its warranty. The E92 M3 gets worse MPG's than I've ever seen in an RX7. GTR's are also very expensive to own. Honestly RX7's are not that bad financially to own in comparison to it's comparatives. I used to own an R32 GTR and god was that a nightmare, NSX's are slow and expensive to modify and I don't like the way it's steering ratio feels. The Supra has a lack of steering feel all together and a 20+ year Supra with a Targa top leaks and sounds like a tin can. Trust me I know I've owned 2 on seperate occasions.

I don't like Matt Farah's reviews for the most part he's very american biased which is funny because he mostly tests imports/euro/japanese. He didn't seem enthusiastic about either car to be honest.

Either way both cars look amazing and thanks guys for your contributions to the RX7 community.

He should of mentioned how great the RX7 community is and the amount of knowledge they have to share to make owning a rotary RX7 a joy!

 

I was under the same impression. It's almost like he was being paid to be there

 

This is often being brought up, but it isn't that easy! In short, we don't want a Corvette!

The longer version:

There are preferential as well as factual reasons (some performance advantages) to why so many LS RX7 owners are driving FDs and not Corvettes. For example, I think the majority of the LS FD owners think that an FD looks much better than a Corvette. Then there are the typical performance advantages of the FD versus a Corvette (vs most Corvettes): less weight, better drag coefficient, smaller dimensions, etc.

Another reason is the feeling they get from owning, driving and working on an RX7 versus a Corvette. Just like you, most of the LS RX7 owners have been through their cars and are attached to them as much as you are. It is a rare car and it is more special to their owners than a Corvette would be (at least in the U.S.). For example I also personally feel that the driving position, road feel and visilbility of the Corvette lack those of the FD (although I wouldn't know about the new C7 models). Due to the size, I personally find the driving feel of an FD to be closer to an MX5 and an S2000 than to a Corvette.

Although I appreciate the performance capabilities and achievements of the Corvette, I personally would never want to trade a well-sorted, finished LS FD for any of the Corvettes for numerous reasons. Additionally, being an enthusiast of the American muscle cars and their V8 engines as well as being an enthusiast of the Japanese sports cars and racing heritage, I find the LS FD to be the most perfect (affordable) automobile. I do not feel nearly the same about a Corvette!


P.S. Although the C6 chassis maybe a more capable chassis than the FD3S for GT1, GT2, GT3 racing or super high horsepower applications, that is a whole different topic.

 

Coming from two corvettes I bought an FD because it was different. If I wanted a V8 I would just get a C5Z. Loved both cars and I normally enjoy Matt's reviews but this one was just sub par at best.

 

See, for me this IS the reason I bought an FD. Decades of trial and error by Mazda, but never wavering and staying true to their belief in the rotary engine. The incredibly linear power delivery, the high revs, the balance, handling and finally, OH FINALLY, the fireballs It's out of respect for their dedication when SO many other manufacturers tried and failed, that keeps me loyal to the complete package. Again, just my passion, nothing factual, just the way the car makes me "feel" which is totally subjective.

A friend of mine in Phoenix built a twin turbo LS FD that produces North of 1200HP. Is it cool, you bet! Scary... hell yea. But it's built for sub 9 second straight line performance. So, again, different strokes. I don't begrudge anyone who decides to go LS, as long as the car is crafted with intent and well done. For me it's about the final product and the thought that went into making it happen. It's all about being a CAR GUY and showing enthusiasm and support, regardless of the path we've chosen.

 

You know, cars aside, I think the problem with this review is that it just came across as boring. No tire smoke, no going sideways, no race track compare, no laughing your head off while bouncing off of the rev limiter. It was just boring.

If I wanted a boring car review, I'd go watch somebody review the new Prius. Come on man, we wanted fire and brimstone and all we got was a soggy sandwich!!

Maybe the split from the European guy has them all soured.... He's off driving LaFerrari's while these guys are stuck with our lowly FD.

 

x1000

Very underwhelming for cars of this caliber. No LaFerraris, but apparently Subaru Legacies and Miatas are more fun for Matt (`-`)

 

Lets not forget that Matt's a pretty big guy so that's to be expected. Performance aside, the fd doesn't fit everyone. He absolutley loved that Sharkwerks Porsche though.

 

Ha! Whatever, I do what I want!





LS FD with ac, p/s, etc is 200-250 lb. lighter than a C5 Z06, 300-350 lb. lighter than a C6 Z06, and mine is as quick as and 450 lb. lighter than a ZR1, for a lot less money, looks better inside and out, and drives like an RX-7 with massive torque and power. If I'd wanted a Corvette, I'd have bought one...

 

Snapped pic... E shaft sits at cam level. Look at that huuuuge lsx

 

The eshaft depicts the center of rotating mass, but that's not necessarily the CoG. The mass in the heads will raise the CoG in a piston motor. Not sure how heavy the heads are on an LS motor but on bmw's I've worked on they're significant.

 

Cool picture.

 

You are missing the point...... It is locating the transmission.

There is a reason you can fit giant *** autos in a stock rx7 tunnel.....

Lol the heads. The induction of the Ls sits hardly above the head line and is poly.

Look at the rotary induction system on top.

You should weigh an all aluminum LS vs a rotary with power adder once..... It will surprise you

We aren't talking about some huge OHC engine, the cam in block motors a tiny

An Ls head is around 21lbs bare

 

I hate to sign up just to watch this

 

There's a free 14 day trial, cancelling after that is literally two mouse clicks.

 

Zbrown, are you saying that the transmissions in ls swaps are mounted lower giving you more head room in the tranny tunnel?