How to value your FD
09-01-21, 08:44 PM
#4326
What a backstory! Hopefully a rotary powertrain will find its way back into that car at some point.
FDs are somewhat unique in that a non-original engine isn't as big of a value detractor as it is on some cars, both because replacements are so common and because the engines were never serial number matched to the chassis.
FDs are somewhat unique in that a non-original engine isn't as big of a value detractor as it is on some cars, both because replacements are so common and because the engines were never serial number matched to the chassis.
I wanted to ticker with something since the BB pretty much in my comfort zone since 2016, but it has to be something worth restoring and this one fits the bill.
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Neo (09-02-21)
09-02-21, 09:43 AM
#4327
What a backstory! Hopefully a rotary powertrain will find its way back into that car at some point.
FDs are somewhat unique in that a non-original engine isn't as big of a value detractor as it is on some cars, both because replacements are so common and because the engines were never serial number matched to the chassis.
FDs are somewhat unique in that a non-original engine isn't as big of a value detractor as it is on some cars, both because replacements are so common and because the engines were never serial number matched to the chassis.
A little FYI ----which will probably add to the value of these cars when the value goes beyond $100k and the older they get, the engine is matched to the chassis. So when the time comes these will be like a 60-70s muscle cars that are numbers matching. So a matching engine will definitely add value I would assume( but who knows for sure). From the Vin# you can tell what each FD Rx7 came from the factory with ie. color exterior/interior what model type(R1/2, touring, base), engine number and date when it left the factory. I am sure there is more but this what I remember
09-02-21, 09:45 AM
#4328
Thanks! It's missing an engine and trans, other than that everything else is original. Found it hibernating in a climate control garage for 10 years, with the fuel tank stored dry, interior smell and look new. PO wanted to LS swap it so he pull the engine and trans, but other than that he didn't do much else with it as he has other projects.
you were faster than me on this one, at least I know it's in good hands!!!
09-02-21, 09:52 AM
#4329
Originally Posted by ls1swap
A little FYI ----which will probably add to the value of these cars when the value goes beyond $100k and the older they get, the engine is matched to the chassis. So when the time comes these will be like a 60-70s muscle cars that are numbers matching. So a matching engine will definitely add value I would assume( but who knows for sure). From the Vin# you can tell what each FD Rx7 came from the factory with ie. color exterior/interior what model type(R1/2, touring, base), engine number and date when it left the factory. I am sure there is more but this what I remember
09-02-21, 11:09 AM
#4330
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the engine number shows up in a couple of places, the warranty history, and i think the window sticker. the engines are built in the rotary engine factory, and were numbered in the order they were built. then they went across the street and were put into cars in semi random order. that is pretty common, but Mazda wrote it down.
or i guess you could say the engine number doesn't match the chassis, but we can verify the original engine
or i guess you could say the engine number doesn't match the chassis, but we can verify the original engine
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ls1swap (09-02-21)
09-02-21, 11:27 AM
#4331
the engine number shows up in a couple of places, the warranty history, and i think the window sticker. the engines are built in the rotary engine factory, and were numbered in the order they were built. then they went across the street and were put into cars in semi random order. that is pretty common, but Mazda wrote it down.
or i guess you could say the engine number doesn't match the chassis, but we can verify the original engine
or i guess you could say the engine number doesn't match the chassis, but we can verify the original engine
09-02-21, 11:44 AM
#4332
This what I know to be true so take it for what its worth, but I have tried it with 3 fd rx7s with original engines and the numbers I was given matched what was in the car.
1. the number is STAMPED into the front iron, on top, it'll be to the left of the alternator.
2. the engine number will NOT match the vin, or any other number on the car. even if it is the original one.
3. in theory mazda japan has the engine number in their file, but depending on the build date it may not be available, as they didn't go computer until sometime in the early 90's.
4. if the front iron was replaced with a NEW one, it will not have a stamp
So i guess you can tell if the front Iron is original to the car by having mazda verify what engine number went into the car by the VIN# of the car.
So for me one of my cars was :
1994 Montego Blue with Tan PEP, it was built 1/28/1994 and sold new in Charleston South Carolina 10/25/1994 with an engine number 13BE 121520 and it matched what was in my car.
1. the number is STAMPED into the front iron, on top, it'll be to the left of the alternator.
2. the engine number will NOT match the vin, or any other number on the car. even if it is the original one.
3. in theory mazda japan has the engine number in their file, but depending on the build date it may not be available, as they didn't go computer until sometime in the early 90's.
4. if the front iron was replaced with a NEW one, it will not have a stamp
So i guess you can tell if the front Iron is original to the car by having mazda verify what engine number went into the car by the VIN# of the car.
So for me one of my cars was :
1994 Montego Blue with Tan PEP, it was built 1/28/1994 and sold new in Charleston South Carolina 10/25/1994 with an engine number 13BE 121520 and it matched what was in my car.
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ls1swap (09-02-21)
09-02-21, 01:13 PM
#4334
Rotary Enthusiast
If a car is modded with a wide body and V Mount, is it worth more with the stock twins or a single? Where are the values on a modified car, assuming similar condition. Will a car tuned on twins be more desirable in the future?
09-02-21, 01:49 PM
#4336
A completely stock car is more valuable as it has a greater audience that it appeals to. Now modifications whether they are performance or aesthetic are a very personal thing, so it really shrinks the audience for those cars. With that said, mods as a whole don't really not add value if done correctly they just don't really the devalue the car (unless we are talking extremely low mileage examples). For instance, shitty mods that leave the car in questionable condition definitely cuts the price. Mods that come to mind are going non-sequential, cheap turbos/intercoolers/hot air intakes/ect, bad fitting/no name body kits. The list goes on and on but you get the idea.
We are not there yet but I believe 90's JDM cars will eventually mirror the old school current muscle car market. Meaning there is a market for both stock and performance modified examples (no body kits and such)
Last edited by Montego; 09-02-21 at 03:32 PM.
09-02-21, 02:14 PM
#4337
Rotary Enthusiast
There's definitely room for both. Look at the Euro scene, nicely tuned and swapped cars go for strong money, of course concourse showroom is always at the top.
But the Japanese car scene has always been about the mods, it's what made the cars great. A stock JDM sports car from the 90s was OK, but the ability to tune it up made them great. I think properly modified Japanese cars will hold much higher relative value to all OEM examples, compared to Euro and American cars of the same period.
I think you are right about the twins. Keeping them in proper order and upping the boost will probably bring out more dollars than a modern single conversion. It's the uniqueness of the sequential system.
But the Japanese car scene has always been about the mods, it's what made the cars great. A stock JDM sports car from the 90s was OK, but the ability to tune it up made them great. I think properly modified Japanese cars will hold much higher relative value to all OEM examples, compared to Euro and American cars of the same period.
I think you are right about the twins. Keeping them in proper order and upping the boost will probably bring out more dollars than a modern single conversion. It's the uniqueness of the sequential system.
09-02-21, 02:33 PM
#4338
In the current US market, you can sell a clean, stock FD in days (or even hours) if the car is priced fairly. Heavily modified cars are always going to be a challenge to sell. The recent sale of an extremely well done Feed widebody car (see here) gives a good sense of the difficulty involved. It took months to sell and I suspect the seller got far less than they were hoping for (and far less than they put into the car). Worth noting that Bring a Trailer did not want to list the car, preferring more stock examples.
Thankfully the trend has now mostly stopped, but the FD was also a focus for a lot of really questionable modifications in its earlier years: vacuum hose 'simplification', wiring harness 'simplification', double throttle delete, throttle body coolant bypass, AC, ABS, OMP deletion, deletion of random emission components etc. The performance and reliability advantages of all of these modifications were marginal at best for a street car. If you look at the cars that have sold well recently, they are unhacked stock cars or have mild bolt-ons. Hell, some even have original plastic ASTs.
Thankfully the trend has now mostly stopped, but the FD was also a focus for a lot of really questionable modifications in its earlier years: vacuum hose 'simplification', wiring harness 'simplification', double throttle delete, throttle body coolant bypass, AC, ABS, OMP deletion, deletion of random emission components etc. The performance and reliability advantages of all of these modifications were marginal at best for a street car. If you look at the cars that have sold well recently, they are unhacked stock cars or have mild bolt-ons. Hell, some even have original plastic ASTs.
Last edited by moconnor; 09-02-21 at 02:35 PM.
09-02-21, 02:59 PM
#4339
Not to mention how much rarer stock--or even near-stock--examples are. I can understand adding a few reliability mods/bolt-ons, but it seems most FD owners go crazy with body kits, widebody conversions, racing seats, and all sorts of other stuff.
09-02-21, 03:29 PM
#4340
It is enthusiasts that are the ones that take things too far. Personally, I don't think that stock cars are not that rare. Sure they are rare here and in the reality we live in with the forum's influence, but most folks aren't really that keen on modifying cars.
09-02-21, 05:23 PM
#4342
The Feed Afflux car sold for C$72,000, which certainly is the upper range of all North American FD sales and maybe the highest ever RHD sales price on our shores.
The same car without the kit might have gone for as low as C$30,000.
So the kit brought a significant premium regardless,
The car is certainly a hit at local Lower Mainland Car meets.
Due, in part, to the new owner being the principal organizer of these 400~500 car events.
The money spent by the previous owner was as much a work of love as a speculative exercise.
The same car without the kit might have gone for as low as C$30,000.
So the kit brought a significant premium regardless,
The car is certainly a hit at local Lower Mainland Car meets.
Due, in part, to the new owner being the principal organizer of these 400~500 car events.
The money spent by the previous owner was as much a work of love as a speculative exercise.
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Neo (09-11-21)
09-03-21, 06:27 PM
#4345
Auto Enthusiast
Yea I think prices will soften a tad with the season. But I think the 2 that went today on Cars n Bids and BaT were right on par. They both had there issues. The BaT one had damage reported, failed emissions and I don't think most like the color change on the front seats. The CaB rx7 was nearly 70k miles, modified, missing a radio and other minor flaws. I think they were both sub 40k cars but i guess the one on BaT is essentially 40 when u add the fees.
09-04-21, 10:04 AM
#4346
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Very impressed with the 38k for the 94 VR base but not surprised. I believe the rust is surface only and it's a 94 base model that has some nice mods or it's a car I would have considered if I didn't have one. Bottomline: congrats to the both the seller and buyer.
It appears the FD market is up 65 percent over the last 3 years if using this car alone as a barometer.
Again I can't wait until we see a really clean low mileage (under 10k) 94/95 R2, it could easily sell for 100k plus.
3 years ago who would of thought that an FD with 50k miles, accident history, paint work, rust etc.... would sell for 40k. I suspect if this car was clean it may have sold for 50k plus.
It appears the FD market is up 65 percent over the last 3 years if using this car alone as a barometer.
Again I can't wait until we see a really clean low mileage (under 10k) 94/95 R2, it could easily sell for 100k plus.
3 years ago who would of thought that an FD with 50k miles, accident history, paint work, rust etc.... would sell for 40k. I suspect if this car was clean it may have sold for 50k plus.
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ZE Power MX6 (09-04-21)
09-04-21, 01:59 PM
#4347
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Random thought I had the other day -
Imagine being smart enough to buy the left over last model years of some of the now-super-collectible cars. The outgoing models always end up sitting on dealer lots, I remember '95s still at Mazda dealers in '96 or so, new and untitled, with a dealer ready to make a screaming deal on it to get it out of their hair. These are also typically the most desireable - imagine having a super low mileage white '95, for example, that's some serious money there.
The last model year as time goes on is typically the most desireable - they have all the bugs worked out, they added in new features or options, etc.
Big time the same situation with the original NSX.
You REALLY don't want to think too hard about the 05-06 Ford GT40. I remember that dealers were having a hell of a time getting rid of them back in the day and were discounting. That's a $500k car now all day long.
Imagine being smart enough to buy the left over last model years of some of the now-super-collectible cars. The outgoing models always end up sitting on dealer lots, I remember '95s still at Mazda dealers in '96 or so, new and untitled, with a dealer ready to make a screaming deal on it to get it out of their hair. These are also typically the most desireable - imagine having a super low mileage white '95, for example, that's some serious money there.
The last model year as time goes on is typically the most desireable - they have all the bugs worked out, they added in new features or options, etc.
Big time the same situation with the original NSX.
You REALLY don't want to think too hard about the 05-06 Ford GT40. I remember that dealers were having a hell of a time getting rid of them back in the day and were discounting. That's a $500k car now all day long.
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09-04-21, 02:13 PM
#4348
Rotary Enthusiast
People do that, that's why super super low milage examples exist.
Problem is, by the time you pay yearly insurance, taxes, storage (you paid more for a house with a larger garage), maintenance, not to mention the loss of that capital that could have been otherwise invested, you hardly ever come out on top.
Investing in the S&P500 for 25 years at 10% growth is just over 1000% return... Your new $100K sports car needs to be worth $1,000,000 to get even with those numbers, and we haven't even deducted expenses..
Problem is, by the time you pay yearly insurance, taxes, storage (you paid more for a house with a larger garage), maintenance, not to mention the loss of that capital that could have been otherwise invested, you hardly ever come out on top.
Investing in the S&P500 for 25 years at 10% growth is just over 1000% return... Your new $100K sports car needs to be worth $1,000,000 to get even with those numbers, and we haven't even deducted expenses..
09-04-21, 08:00 PM
#4350
Senior Member
Check out this FB that just went for north of $25K - it is an amazing time....
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1983-mazda-rx-7-42/
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1983-mazda-rx-7-42/