GSL-SE 13B engine removal
11-14-21, 11:41 AM
#2
There are two methods of removal. Beginner time: 6 hours at a minimum. Pro time: 3-4 hours, maybe even 2 hours.
Regardless of engine removal method, here are a couple of things I always do.
1, Put car up on a decent set (4) jack stands. Do NOT use the cheap small ones. Get the 3 or 6 ton type that can go tall.
2. Remove the fan clutch, fan, and radiator.
3. Take off the hood. If doing the Engine Only method, the hood can stay in play but I like the room.
4. Remove exhaust at the output of the exhaust header.
5. Keep as much stuff as possible on the engine.
6. Get an engine stand and rotary engine adapter.
7. Engine Hoist/Cherry picker. I don't like the Harbor Freight one. It's doesn't extend far enough.
8. Have a friend help with the actual pull.
Engine Only
This will remove just the engine and keep the transmission in place. The real disadvantage with this method is getting the trans shift to mate when putting the engine back in. Can use hoist at side of car instead of front. The hoist has more room. Placement of jack stand can be an issue though.
Engine & Transmission Together.
Need to have car in air enough to get the right angle. Cap the trans snoot so trans fluid doesn't go everywhere. I like to drain it first. Same with oil.
Regardless of engine removal method, here are a couple of things I always do.
1, Put car up on a decent set (4) jack stands. Do NOT use the cheap small ones. Get the 3 or 6 ton type that can go tall.
2. Remove the fan clutch, fan, and radiator.
3. Take off the hood. If doing the Engine Only method, the hood can stay in play but I like the room.
4. Remove exhaust at the output of the exhaust header.
5. Keep as much stuff as possible on the engine.
6. Get an engine stand and rotary engine adapter.
7. Engine Hoist/Cherry picker. I don't like the Harbor Freight one. It's doesn't extend far enough.
8. Have a friend help with the actual pull.
Engine Only
This will remove just the engine and keep the transmission in place. The real disadvantage with this method is getting the trans shift to mate when putting the engine back in. Can use hoist at side of car instead of front. The hoist has more room. Placement of jack stand can be an issue though.
Engine & Transmission Together.
Need to have car in air enough to get the right angle. Cap the trans snoot so trans fluid doesn't go everywhere. I like to drain it first. Same with oil.
Last edited by KansasCityREPU; 11-14-21 at 07:05 PM.
11-15-21, 05:56 AM
#5
Its an easy engine to remove. Leave the trans in the car. No need to remove it. Its extra work that's not needed if there's no work to be done on the trans, exhaust or driveshaft.
Remove the dynamic chamber to access the lift points and remove the wiring for the fuel injectors. You can leave it all together and disconnect the harness from the car via the large yellow connector near the washer fluid bottle. I always prefer having the dynamic chamber off when removing or installing an SE engine.
The oil cooler lines will be disconnected from the engine and not the cooler. Definitely remove the radiator, fan shroud, and fan. Removing the exhaust manifold to pre cat nuts can sometimes cause issues. Other times, they come off like butter.
I can't think of anything else as far as advice on what makes the job easier. Once you're in there and you have questions, let us know. You may find its much easier than you thought and will be surprised at how simple it is to remove.
Remove the dynamic chamber to access the lift points and remove the wiring for the fuel injectors. You can leave it all together and disconnect the harness from the car via the large yellow connector near the washer fluid bottle. I always prefer having the dynamic chamber off when removing or installing an SE engine.
The oil cooler lines will be disconnected from the engine and not the cooler. Definitely remove the radiator, fan shroud, and fan. Removing the exhaust manifold to pre cat nuts can sometimes cause issues. Other times, they come off like butter.
I can't think of anything else as far as advice on what makes the job easier. Once you're in there and you have questions, let us know. You may find its much easier than you thought and will be surprised at how simple it is to remove.
11-15-21, 09:31 PM
#6
acdelco d1906 Nkg 49034
you can rent an engine hoist. it helps if you have a friend with a pickup truck. before you rent the hoist, make sure that all the nuts and bolts mating the engine to the transmission can be loosened.
With no experience, I pulled the engine in about 2 hours. And installed the atkins rebuilt in about 2. As I've bitched about this before, the water pump housing flange broke around the thermostat (bad luck+2 week delay). I lost the TDC on the pulley (stupidity+ a 2 day delay).
I used rope to support the a/c pump. And the oil line to the beehive is tricky. It is easy to bend. While you have the engine out, why not "de-rust" the firewall , and other places that you can reach now.
Take lots and lots of pictures as you remove stuff from the engine.
When you get everything sorted out, it is orgasmic for years and years.
With no experience, I pulled the engine in about 2 hours. And installed the atkins rebuilt in about 2. As I've bitched about this before, the water pump housing flange broke around the thermostat (bad luck+2 week delay). I lost the TDC on the pulley (stupidity+ a 2 day delay).
I used rope to support the a/c pump. And the oil line to the beehive is tricky. It is easy to bend. While you have the engine out, why not "de-rust" the firewall , and other places that you can reach now.
Take lots and lots of pictures as you remove stuff from the engine.
When you get everything sorted out, it is orgasmic for years and years.
11-16-21, 05:21 AM
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
This is good to know - I used to pull engines from my cars when I was younger and my dad was a mechanic, so I have the general knowledge. But this is the first time attempting anything like this in 40+ years and I've never done anything major with an RX-7. Great advice on loosening the bolts first. And yes... your comments related to de-rust is the main reason I want to pull the engine. The engine actually runs pretty well, but I plan on doing some body work and having her painted back to the original Royal Maroon. So, when I do this, why not repaint door jambs, firewall, etc. And, if I pull the engine, might as well re-build it... right? You know the drill... one thing leads to another. But knowing the removal is pretty easy is very encouraging. And the rebuild actually sounds easier than rebuilding the rear calipers on the GSL-SE! I would love to know more about your rebuild experience. But the rebuild videos I've watched make it seem pretty darn easy. I guess I'd just need to know the pitfalls - there have to be a few. I did not quite follow the A/C pump and TDC comments... could you elaborate? Want to avoid those issues.
Backstory on this car... I originally bought her in '86 with 9k miles. I was graduating college, had put myself through college doing odd jobs, and was rewarding myself for a "job well done". Original thought was to replace my 1981 Toyota Corolla with the new '86 RX-7 I'd had read so much about. They advertised the hell out of that thing and it looked like a poor man's '944. But I just happened to drive by a car lot that had a Royal Maroon '85 GSL-SE. Much nicer car than the '86 - was cheaper, handled better, and just felt better. It was beautiful! I kept her until '90, sold it to my neighbor when I purchased my first house and had to have a truck. But got lucky and bought her back in '96. I have nibbled away at various resto projects for years, including the interior. The inside of the car is in fantastic shape. As I have approached retirement age, I have my mind set on getting the exterior back in shape. And each time I think about one step, I add several more. But your posts help inspire me to tackle this! She really deserves it!
Backstory on this car... I originally bought her in '86 with 9k miles. I was graduating college, had put myself through college doing odd jobs, and was rewarding myself for a "job well done". Original thought was to replace my 1981 Toyota Corolla with the new '86 RX-7 I'd had read so much about. They advertised the hell out of that thing and it looked like a poor man's '944. But I just happened to drive by a car lot that had a Royal Maroon '85 GSL-SE. Much nicer car than the '86 - was cheaper, handled better, and just felt better. It was beautiful! I kept her until '90, sold it to my neighbor when I purchased my first house and had to have a truck. But got lucky and bought her back in '96. I have nibbled away at various resto projects for years, including the interior. The inside of the car is in fantastic shape. As I have approached retirement age, I have my mind set on getting the exterior back in shape. And each time I think about one step, I add several more. But your posts help inspire me to tackle this! She really deserves it!
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11-16-21, 11:45 AM
#8
acdelco d1906 Nkg 49034
The atkins rebuilt engine came with lots and lots of things you had to do inorder for the warranty to be enforce. They made a big deal about marking the leading and trailing timing marks with red and yellow. So I removed the pulley to paint the marks, but stupidly didn't put it back on right. Or maybe it was wrong when I got it from atkins<?>. When you do the timing, it is pretty obvious which is the leading mark, and which is the trailing.
A/C compressor pump has to be separated from the engine, you want to keep the a/c system sealed. So tie a rope around it, so it doesn't fall.
For doing the rebuild yourself, there is a nut that is torqued with a ton of force, that requires a heavy duty impact wrench to get off. I don't know what facilities you have.
With regard to the rebuild itself, there are lots of tutorials. It looks tedious when compared to a piston engine. Atkins and Mazdatrix sell rebuild CDs, and there are some good ones on YT.
A/C compressor pump has to be separated from the engine, you want to keep the a/c system sealed. So tie a rope around it, so it doesn't fall.
For doing the rebuild yourself, there is a nut that is torqued with a ton of force, that requires a heavy duty impact wrench to get off. I don't know what facilities you have.
With regard to the rebuild itself, there are lots of tutorials. It looks tedious when compared to a piston engine. Atkins and Mazdatrix sell rebuild CDs, and there are some good ones on YT.
11-17-21, 12:41 AM
#9
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
Personally, I pull the engine from the top after removing the hood, and pull the trans from the bottom with the car on jack stands. This is a simple and fast way to work on the components separately and with as little weight hanging in the balance as possible, but it's just my personal preference. There are many ways to skin this cat.
On the issue of reinstalling an engine onto a mounted trans already in the car, you'll need to use wood blocks or a hydraulic jack to hold the bell housing of the trans up while you install the engine (*from the top). Once lined up, he most common mistake is that someone will overgrease the Input Shaft Bearing and Seal, which creates a hydraulic lock preventing the trans I put shaft from inserting into the engine eccentric shaft easily. The grease forms a perfect seal preventing air from escaping, and that air is what keeps them from sliding together. The symptom is a gap between the rear housing of the engine and the mating surface on the bell housing of about an inch - with no way to close the gap, no matter how hard you try to force it. Some guys get it close with extended bolts, then tighten, wait a few hours, then tighten some more. Resist the urge to go Hulk on it, as that will result in damaged mount flanges due to cracks. Vice grips have worked for me , two on top, and one on the bottom, gradually increasing tension as you go round-robin tightening and closing the gap. The easiest way is to NOT overgrease the pilot bearing, aka input shaft bearing and Seal.
Apart from this, the rest is very straight-forward. Take your time, doublecheck your electrical connections, and leave the A/C wire tied to the strut tower and the exhaust manifold pulled to the side during install of the engine. I've done it with the radiator and supports in place, which shaves some time off of the work. As someone else mentioned, don't mess with the oil cooler lines at the oil cooler - these are notorious for causing leaks due to cracked bongs which cannot be repaired easily or cheaply. Instead, remove the engine side lines and pull them up toward the battery box area and tie them off. Good luck, and don't rush.
On the issue of reinstalling an engine onto a mounted trans already in the car, you'll need to use wood blocks or a hydraulic jack to hold the bell housing of the trans up while you install the engine (*from the top). Once lined up, he most common mistake is that someone will overgrease the Input Shaft Bearing and Seal, which creates a hydraulic lock preventing the trans I put shaft from inserting into the engine eccentric shaft easily. The grease forms a perfect seal preventing air from escaping, and that air is what keeps them from sliding together. The symptom is a gap between the rear housing of the engine and the mating surface on the bell housing of about an inch - with no way to close the gap, no matter how hard you try to force it. Some guys get it close with extended bolts, then tighten, wait a few hours, then tighten some more. Resist the urge to go Hulk on it, as that will result in damaged mount flanges due to cracks. Vice grips have worked for me , two on top, and one on the bottom, gradually increasing tension as you go round-robin tightening and closing the gap. The easiest way is to NOT overgrease the pilot bearing, aka input shaft bearing and Seal.
Apart from this, the rest is very straight-forward. Take your time, doublecheck your electrical connections, and leave the A/C wire tied to the strut tower and the exhaust manifold pulled to the side during install of the engine. I've done it with the radiator and supports in place, which shaves some time off of the work. As someone else mentioned, don't mess with the oil cooler lines at the oil cooler - these are notorious for causing leaks due to cracked bongs which cannot be repaired easily or cheaply. Instead, remove the engine side lines and pull them up toward the battery box area and tie them off. Good luck, and don't rush.
11-17-21, 08:57 PM
#11
Full Member
Thread Starter
Haven't decided on whether to tackle the 13B rebuild myself, mainly because of time constraints... Atkins seems to good choice to do the rebuild... any luck with other companies? Pros/Cons?
11-18-21, 11:15 AM
#13
Full Member
Personally, I pull the engine from the top after removing the hood, and pull the trans from the bottom with the car on jack stands. This is a simple and fast way to work on the components separately and with as little weight hanging in the balance as possible, but it's just my personal preference. There are many ways to skin this cat.
On the issue of reinstalling an engine onto a mounted trans already in the car, you'll need to use wood blocks or a hydraulic jack to hold the bell housing of the trans up while you install the engine (*from the top). Once lined up, he most common mistake is that someone will overgrease the Input Shaft Bearing and Seal, which creates a hydraulic lock preventing the trans I put shaft from inserting into the engine eccentric shaft easily. The grease forms a perfect seal preventing air from escaping, and that air is what keeps them from sliding together. The symptom is a gap between the rear housing of the engine and the mating surface on the bell housing of about an inch - with no way to close the gap, no matter how hard you try to force it. Some guys get it close with extended bolts, then tighten, wait a few hours, then tighten some more. Resist the urge to go Hulk on it, as that will result in damaged mount flanges due to cracks. Vice grips have worked for me , two on top, and one on the bottom, gradually increasing tension as you go round-robin tightening and closing the gap. The easiest way is to NOT overgrease the pilot bearing, aka input shaft bearing and Seal.
Apart from this, the rest is very straight-forward. Take your time, doublecheck your electrical connections, and leave the A/C wire tied to the strut tower and the exhaust manifold pulled to the side during install of the engine. I've done it with the radiator and supports in place, which shaves some time off of the work. As someone else mentioned, don't mess with the oil cooler lines at the oil cooler - these are notorious for causing leaks due to cracked bongs which cannot be repaired easily or cheaply. Instead, remove the engine side lines and pull them up toward the battery box area and tie them off. Good luck, and don't rush.
On the issue of reinstalling an engine onto a mounted trans already in the car, you'll need to use wood blocks or a hydraulic jack to hold the bell housing of the trans up while you install the engine (*from the top). Once lined up, he most common mistake is that someone will overgrease the Input Shaft Bearing and Seal, which creates a hydraulic lock preventing the trans I put shaft from inserting into the engine eccentric shaft easily. The grease forms a perfect seal preventing air from escaping, and that air is what keeps them from sliding together. The symptom is a gap between the rear housing of the engine and the mating surface on the bell housing of about an inch - with no way to close the gap, no matter how hard you try to force it. Some guys get it close with extended bolts, then tighten, wait a few hours, then tighten some more. Resist the urge to go Hulk on it, as that will result in damaged mount flanges due to cracks. Vice grips have worked for me , two on top, and one on the bottom, gradually increasing tension as you go round-robin tightening and closing the gap. The easiest way is to NOT overgrease the pilot bearing, aka input shaft bearing and Seal.
Apart from this, the rest is very straight-forward. Take your time, doublecheck your electrical connections, and leave the A/C wire tied to the strut tower and the exhaust manifold pulled to the side during install of the engine. I've done it with the radiator and supports in place, which shaves some time off of the work. As someone else mentioned, don't mess with the oil cooler lines at the oil cooler - these are notorious for causing leaks due to cracked bongs which cannot be repaired easily or cheaply. Instead, remove the engine side lines and pull them up toward the battery box area and tie them off. Good luck, and don't rush.
You don't have to tell me about those oil cooler line connections at the oil cooler XD. Those are the absolute worst
11-20-21, 08:15 AM
#15
Full Member
Thread Starter
I have been looking at the Atkins site. If I'm understanding correctly, typical process is to purchase a rebuilt engine and then return the core. My initial thought was that I'd rather keep my original engine, just because of "matching numbers". But something I'd never thought much about... are rotary engines serialized like piston engines? In other words, is there any real benefit in keeping the original engine?
11-20-21, 06:58 PM
#16
Each engine does have a serial number and it would be tied to the vin number. Having the original engine would help the value of the car should you sell it to a collector in the future, but I think the majority would be more inclined to have a new engine.
I have two low production RX-7's, a 1980 Leather Sport and a 1988 10th Anniversary RX-7. Both have the original engine and I would want to keep the original engine or as much of it in the event a rebuild is required.
On the other hand I have two 7's that do not have the original engine. I put a 13B from a GSL-SE in my 85 GS about 13 years ago and its been incredible! The other is an 84 GSL-SE that I picked up as a roller. I haven't decided on an engine as of yet. It will either be a 13B from an SE or early FC or I may put a TII engine in it. To me, I'm comfortable having a good engine in either of those cars and not worrying about a numbers matching engine.
I have two low production RX-7's, a 1980 Leather Sport and a 1988 10th Anniversary RX-7. Both have the original engine and I would want to keep the original engine or as much of it in the event a rebuild is required.
On the other hand I have two 7's that do not have the original engine. I put a 13B from a GSL-SE in my 85 GS about 13 years ago and its been incredible! The other is an 84 GSL-SE that I picked up as a roller. I haven't decided on an engine as of yet. It will either be a 13B from an SE or early FC or I may put a TII engine in it. To me, I'm comfortable having a good engine in either of those cars and not worrying about a numbers matching engine.
02-06-23, 07:48 PM
#19
Full Member
Thread Starter
Removed oil cooler this weekend and followed advice above regarding removing oil cooler lines at the engine. Only problem, when I tried dropping the oil cooler the top hose would not fit through the tight space between the body and some of the front end stuff. Ended up having to carefully remove connectors at oil cooler.
02-07-23, 08:56 AM
#20
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my favorite way to pull the engine these days is the lazy way, comes with the trans.
you lift the car as high as you safely can. remove the center link. and then the engine and trans comes out the bottom. no need to remove the hood, no malarkey with an engine hoist
you do need to remove the fan, radiator is a good idea, its easy to accidentally damage it. and then making the engine shorter helps, so upper intake, alternator etc
when you go to put it in, you do the engine and trans mating on he floor separate from trying to do it in the car. then when you put the floor jack under the front, the arc just sweeps the engine up where its supposed to go.
you lift the car as high as you safely can. remove the center link. and then the engine and trans comes out the bottom. no need to remove the hood, no malarkey with an engine hoist
you do need to remove the fan, radiator is a good idea, its easy to accidentally damage it. and then making the engine shorter helps, so upper intake, alternator etc
when you go to put it in, you do the engine and trans mating on he floor separate from trying to do it in the car. then when you put the floor jack under the front, the arc just sweeps the engine up where its supposed to go.
02-11-23, 07:51 PM
#21
Full Member
Hello LongD,
I noticed that after repairs on the oil cooler bracket that I had done that later on the fittings on the cooler were a bit wet, but not really leaking. My mechanic told me that they leak from sitting car syndrome and its not serious. I didn't even wipe them off. Months later and this car uses NO oil whatsoever. For most of the year the level stayed 1mm over full on the stick full line. I bet the fittings still look wet, this car had new lines within the last 3-4 years the other owner had it. How is your repair gone? I think the crush washers leak a little from seasonal sitting in hot climates. I'm not wrenching on mine
I noticed that after repairs on the oil cooler bracket that I had done that later on the fittings on the cooler were a bit wet, but not really leaking. My mechanic told me that they leak from sitting car syndrome and its not serious. I didn't even wipe them off. Months later and this car uses NO oil whatsoever. For most of the year the level stayed 1mm over full on the stick full line. I bet the fittings still look wet, this car had new lines within the last 3-4 years the other owner had it. How is your repair gone? I think the crush washers leak a little from seasonal sitting in hot climates. I'm not wrenching on mine
02-11-23, 08:02 PM
#22
Full Member
Hello mazdaverx,
Some questions if you can answer them;
The GSL SE engines have rotor cavities that are peanut shaped larger at the ends. Wouldn't using another rotor without this expanded cavity hurt performance? I know the later rotors are lighter though. Is it important for GSL SE owners to at least save their rotors in a RB?
Any tips on what GSL SE owners should do in RB a 13B?, assuming you are replacing the engine, should you use later model engines if a 85 RESI version is unavailable?
What are the other differences in housings? What can be interchanged into a 85 RESI 13B slot that has better performance if you are keeping the intake system stock?
Some questions if you can answer them;
The GSL SE engines have rotor cavities that are peanut shaped larger at the ends. Wouldn't using another rotor without this expanded cavity hurt performance? I know the later rotors are lighter though. Is it important for GSL SE owners to at least save their rotors in a RB?
Any tips on what GSL SE owners should do in RB a 13B?, assuming you are replacing the engine, should you use later model engines if a 85 RESI version is unavailable?
What are the other differences in housings? What can be interchanged into a 85 RESI 13B slot that has better performance if you are keeping the intake system stock?
02-12-23, 09:46 AM
#23
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the FC has bigger intake ports, lighter rotors, lighter flywheel, better seals etc. its a nice jump in power that won't change the looks or the function. you do need to use the GSL-SE oil pan and front cover.
the GSL-SE water pump will work, or if you can find one the early FC water pump is an aluminum body, so its a bit lighter
the other nice upgrade if you want a sleeper, is the FC exhaust manifold, its the same as the GSL-SE, but it has a 50mm outlet vs the 44mm outlet of the GSL-SE
02-21-23, 07:45 PM
#24
Full Member
the 98-91 FC non turbo engine will work with the GSL-SE intake and fuel setup. all of the ports line up between the GSL-SE and the late FC, so the emissions will all still work, if needed.
the FC has bigger intake ports, lighter rotors, lighter flywheel, better seals etc. its a nice jump in power that won't change the looks or the function. you do need to use the GSL-SE oil pan and front cover.
the GSL-SE water pump will work, or if you can find one the early FC water pump is an aluminum body, so its a bit lighter
the other nice upgrade if you want a sleeper, is the FC exhaust manifold, its the same as the GSL-SE, but it has a 50mm outlet vs the 44mm outlet of the GSL-SE
the FC has bigger intake ports, lighter rotors, lighter flywheel, better seals etc. its a nice jump in power that won't change the looks or the function. you do need to use the GSL-SE oil pan and front cover.
the GSL-SE water pump will work, or if you can find one the early FC water pump is an aluminum body, so its a bit lighter
the other nice upgrade if you want a sleeper, is the FC exhaust manifold, its the same as the GSL-SE, but it has a 50mm outlet vs the 44mm outlet of the GSL-SE
Last edited by BeastieboyFBGLSSE; 02-21-23 at 07:46 PM. Reason: mistake
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