13B4port

in my project car that i'm restoring i recently put a 88 13b into my 84 gsl-se. it runs off of the 84 ecu. i was wondering would a turbo be good or bad on this engine and why?

hornbm

bad, plain and simple. The a 6 port engine has high compression rotors which are bad for making high ammounts of boost.

In addition the 6 port design does not flow as well as the 4 ports that the turbo motors have. The reason for the 6 ports is to help improve low end torque in the the N/A motor, bu with the addition of a turbo, 6 ports will make less power in the low end than a 4 port will.

Even if you were to turbo a 6 port, you'd have to make a custom intake mafold setup, or go the easy route and do something like a blow through turbo with a carb.

Just so you know you cant run a turbo off of the GSL-SE ecu, you'd have to get a standalone if you wanted to keep the EFI.

12abridgeport

I'm sure it's possible to make that setup work but i've had a '91 n/a that i had turbocharged and it never worked for me and i've had the speedshop do all the work to that car.

web777

It does work! With high compression rotors you can achieve good hp at lower boost. A simple blowthrough would work or if you want to keep the FI you can add a boost dependent regulator or AIC.

MRGSL-SE

the N304 should be able to handle for air coming it... just add the boost dependent regulator... and you have to change the lower intake manifold or get a custom exhaust manifold that will clear the turbo and make it fit...

hornbm

the question is not if it works, but if it works well and if its worth doing.

The simple answer to that is no. Its a much better idea to get a TII motor to begin with.

13B4port

why is it bad? i understand having to run low psi b/c of higher compression but why is itbetter to get a tII with lower compression and run higher psi?

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Its just fine. Talk to eddierotary, he has a blowthrough turbo 6 port 13b. He seems pretty happy with it!!

I know of 3 or 4 ppl who are turbo'ing their 6 ports right now. I would personally reccomend using blowthrough. You will never get an n/a ecu to work on it!!!

The blowthrough is much easier to setup, so i've heard. and it just makes sense, there are no wires to run!

You can contact robert at rotaryshack.com, he can build anything you need, from intakes, to custom turbo manifolds.

I'm going blowthrough from him, but i did an s4 tii block swap, ONLY because my gsl-se block was blown.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

A 6 port engine not good to turbo? Thats the biggest steaming pile of bs I've ever heard. They are fantastic engines to turbo. The 6 port gets dogged all the time by the uneducated. Does a big streetport 4 port engine flow more air than a streetport 6 port? Yes, by a little, but you have to also take into account that the 6 port engines ports stay open longer allowing more air to enter in over a longer period of time. The thing that people don't realize about the flow characteristics of the 6 port end plates is that air velocity plays a huge role in the power production, lower cfm's or otherwise. When the rotor passes over the bottom port and closes it off, all of the remaining air in the intake runner is forced to compress and flow through the remaining port. This allows more air to enter in than would normally be possible based solely on cfm flow numbers which don't take this into account. Compressing the air changes the numbers around. Did the flowbench account for the fact that the port is not always 100% open depending on where the rotor is? A 6 port can be open as late (and sometimes more) as 80*. Does a 4 port engine flow any cfm here? NO! Did the flow numbers tell this? NO! Did the flowbench take into account the fact that the intake manifold may or may not pose a restriction? You get the idea. If the 6 port engine was really all that bad then we wouldn't still have one. Don't even get into the bs arguments about how they are better for daily street use. The 4 port Renesis makes more power than the 6 port Renesis up to 6500 rpm. It is also tuned to a lower rpm whereas the 6 port is tuned higher. I have a turbo streetport 4 port engine and am working on adding a turbo to the streetported 6 port right now. I'm pretty sure that the 6 port will make better power everywhere.

The one thing I wouldn't do is to try to use the stock ecu and afm on a turbo. Can it be done? Yes, but to what extent and gain? The GSL-SE only uses 2 injectors. You'll need more than this as well as a better fuel pump. You will also need to find a way to control these additional injectors. Since it requires spending some amount of money to do this, it would just be prudent to spend the extra $10 and get the Microtech. Don't use the POS S-AFC, additional injector controllers, or any other form of bandaid system. Get rid of the afm restriction and get the power you really want. Anyone contemplating adding a turbo to an n/a who isn't using either a T-II computer or a standalone system, has their priorities mixed up severely.

eddierotary

iTrader: (7)

i prefer better the 6 port engine that a turbo II or 4 port engine engine because it have two more opening and i thing is better for turbo. i have a blow thru setup on my N/A turbo setup and is wonderfull and i like it alot. and you can alway build one with lower compression rotors

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

would a turbo be good or bad for the engine?
good if you're willing to invest the time and patience it will require to tune it properly - bad if you're not!

i think Rotarygod has said most of what needs to be said ... it's all about the tuning. just slapping a turbo on the engine is a bad idea, but the stuff about the compression is a non-issue, because you can blow up a T2 motor just as easily if you boost without proper tuning!

13B4port

i have a 88 block and intake, RB exhaust, MSD 6a, custom intake pluming for the amf and high flow cone filter, and the stuff needed to be done to get the engine into my car. it's ran by the 84 ecu, but i'm planning on a after market fuel manager, probably from FAST, very exspensive but the best on the market. also i do have the patiants for the turbo setup, i spent 5months going from being a piston boy to learning everything i know and doing an engine swap on my 84 gsl-se and kept the EFI. is there any other good fuel managers out there that you guys would recomend, how much psi should i run max- 6psi? what turbo and where do i get the manifolds for it? i'm keeping the EFI, i find that the throttle response is much better IMO.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

there are several good systems out there. in terms of choice and features, it's pretty much a buyer's market.

i'm not well-versed in the details of the differences between one system and the next, but just take a look in the EFI/ECU forum and all your questions should be answered.

the question on how much boost to run totally depends on what your goals are ... and of course, how far you go with fuel, intercooling and ignition to support the turbo and engine.

i agree with keeping it EFI, but i strongly URGE you to start drawing up plans on how you will add injectors to it. also, if you plan to keep the distributor, then you'll have to have it locked. (personally, i would focus on a system that will work with the Gen II crank angle sensor and use it - but it's not NECESSARY)

also check out the turbo forum ... i know at least a few of the guys that have turbocharged these cars will be happy to help you through this.

chuck8313BTSDS

Ran a turbo on a GSL-SE motor for a few months. Works good. The turboII LIM fits the SE motor.

http://groups.msn.com/ChucksRX7/1983...oto&PhotoID=84

The turboII intake manifold has the other two injectors pockets. 4 SE injectors, stock truboII turbo, stand alone, I used the SDS system (900$) with the stock 83 dizzy. 150$ aftermarket inline fuel pump ( Airtex E8248 ). Small front mount intercooler. Like rotaygod said, if tuned right it will work. For the street this set up works very well. I think rotarygod has some of this stuff, read it on another thread.
chuck

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I have a couple of stock J-spec T-II manifolds that I don't need. I also have one VERY heavily modified T-II manifold that I don't recommend if you like gas mileage. It is great for power though! I also have a custom built aluminum T-II upper manifold that was designed for power. I could be persuaded to seperate with it but not cheaply. Inquire about the stock stuff though.

fatboy7

I'm not aquainted with FAST, but just thought I'd tell you to do good research about the different systems out there.

Some systems that I know to work are the standard:
Haltech, Microtech, SDS, etc.

Max boost is really dependant on a number of things. I know that with the right turbo, and high compression rotors you should be able to get as much as 14-15psi on pump gas (low compression rotors can get a couple psi more). If you use a stock TII turbo though, I wouldn't recommend going beyond 12psi - they pump really hot much beyond that. As far as wear and tear is conserned, any boost beyond the 6-8psi that was ran OEM on TIIs is likely to cause some premature wear.
As far as I understand it, the things that require attention when wanting to turn up the boost and/or increase power are (in no particular order)

Heat management: more intercooling, better radiator, higher oil flow and pressure, etc.
Fuel management: Injectors, pump, ECU, tunning
Turbo sizeing: compressor matching, turbo A/R sizing, wheel size and trim
Ingition: stronger spark, cooler plugs, retarded timing


Stock TII turbo can be had used for pretty cheap ($200-300). Rebuilds are not increadibly cheap ($500-700). I'm not sure if the TII exhaust manifold will fit an NA without modification, but should be pretty easy regardless.

For a little more than twice a rebuilt turbo though, you can get a larger single. I'd recomend a TO4E, TO4S, or 60-1. There are aftermarket manifolds and wastegates for reasonable prices. A turbo, manifold an wastegate you could probably get for around $1500-1800, if you shop around. With any of those, and you'd get almost 400 RWHP on pump gas, a bit more if you had access to higher octane fuels.

13B4port

my order is ignition, fuel, cooling, then turbo. i believe you should do everything you can to car with in reason b4 you go turbo. you just have to plan and make sure it's all goin to work together.

i dont' agree with keeping the 88 crank angle sensor. it is very hard/expensive to setup a MSD or any other after market ignition with the second gen ignition setup. read this article, it explains a lot.
http://personal.riverusers.com/~yawpower/ignition.html

i will be using a turboII manifold. i thx you for all of thoughts. i need to know what a resonable psi setting for daily driving and fun at the races.