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FD engine street port with cosmo intake. Street Power Seal.
362sxe borg warner turbo A/R.91
Treadstone TR8C intercooler 500hp efficiency
Tail 44mm wastegate
50MM Greddy blowoff
Ecu Haltech RE
injector (2)850cc and (2) 1200cc
Intercooler pipe 2.5 and 3" all vband.
3' downpipe, dual muffler
The gold is 400 to 430@17 to 19 pounds, 91 pump gas (shell).
Any Advice??
Wideband O2. That intercooler is pretty small. You might see elevated intake temps. Probably should get a larger fuel pump as well, aftermarket pressure regulator.
you have a state of the art (excellent) 550 rotary rwhp turbo and you will have to bypass a lot of flow to run it around 400/430 hp. your wastegate is too small and you are going to get loads of boost creep.
i posted logs that show boost going from 8.9 psi to 19.4 psi in .735 of one second. (post 28 in the Intake Air Temperature Sensor thread in this Section). this was no malfunction, things happen fast.
if you have any wastegate, or wastegate control, malfunction in less than a second you will be miles out of fuel and better have an instantaneous ignition retard to zero.
i ran your exact turbo and was making 470/485 at 18 psi so in order to be around 400 you are going to need a lot of wastegate..
given you should run your injectors at no more than 85% duty cycle and they have approx 20% lag you have injectors for 353 rw rotary hp.
400 takes 4641 and 450 takes 5221 Gross/Nominal capacity. the proper way to size injectors is so they can deliver whatever your turbo makes max. you can never have too much fuel or ignition.
i couldn't locate a 380 AEM pump but the 400 flows 5661 at 30 psi boost so you are probably fine as long as you hardwire the pump so it sees 13.5 or more V.
i don't see AI? do you think that just because you are planning to run around 400 you don't need it?
With 50mm wastegate and 2 1600cc injectors, will I improve my set up???
Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR
you have a state of the art (excellent) 550 rotary rwhp turbo and you will have to bypass a lot of flow to run it around 400/430 hp. your wastegate is too small and you are going to get loads of boost creep.
i posted logs that show boost going from 8.9 psi to 19.4 psi in .735 of one second. (post 28 in the Intake Air Temperature Sensor thread in this Section). this was no malfunction, things happen fast.
if you have any wastegate, or wastegate control, malfunction in less than a second you will be miles out of fuel and better have an instantaneous ignition retard to zero.
i ran your exact turbo and was making 470/485 at 18 psi so in order to be around 400 you are going to need a lot of wastegate..
given you should run your injectors at no more than 85% duty cycle and they have approx 20% lag you have injectors for 353 rw rotary hp.
400 takes 4641 and 450 takes 5221 Gross/Nominal capacity. the proper way to size injectors is so they can deliver whatever your turbo makes max. you can never have too much fuel or ignition.
i couldn't locate a 380 AEM pump but the 400 flows 5661 at 30 psi boost so you are probably fine as long as you hardwire the pump so it sees 13.5 or more V.
i don't see AI? do you think that just because you are planning to run around 400 you don't need it?
you have a state of the art (excellent) 550 rotary rwhp turbo and you will have to bypass a lot of flow to run it around 400/430 hp. your wastegate is too small and you are going to get loads of boost creep.
I think it's more about how well prioritised the wastegate is than how big it is. I run a 38mm with 100% priority on a two rotor with a gtx3582 1.06 . I can run it as low as 7psi with zero creep.
"how well prioritised the wastegate is than how big it is"
... from my extensive rogue's gallery of turbo manifolds, three train wrecks along with something very similar.... all work about the same.
why would anyone "prioritize" a wastegate? it IS entirely possible to run a near 600 hp turbo at low boost if you build a manifold that transports all of the exhaust into the WG. but why would you do that?
OP, if the 38 mm WG holds low boost on your SXE62 you have the wrong manifold.
suggest you read System Design Section... also post a pic of your manifold please
I worded that a bit wrong (my apologies for that).... my main point was that there seems to be an obsession for "big is good" as far as wastegate selection goes when in fact the reverse can be true. A well designed manifold that gives decent priority to the wastegate doesn't need a monster wastegate. And having a monster wastegate can lead to other boost control issues.
I brought my example up because it demonstrates how small you actually can go. It gets good consistent boost control with a 38mm wastegate on a 2 rotor that has more 'power under the curve' than any other setup for that engine to date yet is also able to run happily at 7psi.
Yes it's 'only' a Renesis and it only makes 400whp but it does work well.
I get 100% priority to the WG by utilising the siamese port for wastegating duties. The other two ports go to the 1.06 twin scroll turbine housing.
"my apologies".. no need, we are just looking for answers here...
my view is that wastegating is one of the more important factors in system design. in the ideal world there would be no wastegates so all of the energy could drive the compressor. in the real world we would have 60 psi of boost and numerous bad things would happen in an instant.
there are two primary factors that determine WG efficacy:
size position
as in the entire pumping system it is advantageous to encourage drag-free flow... a large air filter, minimized IC tubing volume, minimized bends in the IC tubing, an efficiently flowing IC, a Ground Zero LIM, excellent porting and, finally, a really nice short bend free 50 MM I D runner to the turbine with at least a 3 inch exhaust.
interrupting all this flow chain is what you don't want to do. this would especially be a dead end at the WG or the WG port being located at the outside of a bend. if this were the only answer to control boost then so be it but it isn't.
the answer is a LARGE (60 mm) wastegate in a flow dis-advantaged location. the size of the WG makes up for the fact it isn't in the primary stream. win win... little flow interruption but boost control.
60 mm WG piston area is 4.38 square inches 38 mm WG piston area 1.755 2 X 38 3.51 44 mm WG piston area 2.35 2 X 44 WG piston area 4.71
a single 60 mm features 50% less leaky V bands, less tubing and is only 7% less piston area than dual 44s.
here's the proof it works. a number of differing boost levels with my 630 rwhp GT4094r, my dis-advantaged 60 mm wastegate easily holding 16 psi with no creep. there is no problem controlling a 60 mm WG.
Brettus, the fact that you have a Renesis changes the situation. the single biggest factor allowing the 13B-REW to make such amazing power for it's size is the peripheral exhaust port. the Renesis has side exhaust ports which severely limits flow. in addition, all they are is drilled tubes intersecting at a 90 degree angle to the interior port. sure they may have more area since you have the additional ports but they are a greatly limiting factor as to flow. simply put your wastegate doesn't have as much flow to manage and therefore apparently works O K.
OP, haven't forgotten about you..., please either post a pic of your manifold or let us know what it is so we can help you and to avoiding a creep problem.
Brettus, the fact that you have a Renesis changes the situation. the single biggest factor allowing the 13B-REW to make such amazing power for it's size is the peripheral exhaust port. the Renesis has side exhaust ports which severely limits flow. in addition, all they are is drilled tubes intersecting at a 90 degree angle to the interior port. sure they may have more area since you have the additional ports but they are a greatly limiting factor as to flow. simply put your wastegate doesn't have as much flow to manage and therefore apparently works O K. .
Thanks for the explanation re your wastegate strategy Howard. I've never thought about it that way and I do see how that works now. Just looking at the last pic you posted (not the cart before the horse. To me that looks like good design because the angle of the bend is very shallow and you have gas coming to a Y. Given that the pipe going to the WG is slightly smaller and typically the WG has to flow 30-40% of the total exhaust gasses .... surely the only time there is any turbulence is when WG is closed ?
With regard to the Renesis , I've been messing with it for years and found out some interesting things . One being that it will hold it's own against any stock ported REW with a similar turbo, on a whp vs psi basis, right up until the point the Renesis becomes choked (around the 400whp mark) . Also, the reason it chokes has very little to do with port/port runner size or shape and everything to do with port closure timing.
Thank you for your advice With wastegate 44mm and the previous turbo I had 370whp without boost crip problems. but last time in the dyno my turbo got hurt. What I can do is use 50mm at the moment. My turbo manifold is already done but I can modify later to use dual wastegate.
What I didn't like about my previous turbo was the slow spool.
I hope to improve with this.
08-19-19, 08:46 AM
Will I need anything else??
. To me that looks like good design because the angle of the bend is very shallow and you have gas coming to a Y. Given that the pipe going to the WG is slightly smaller and typically the WG has to flow 30-40% of the total exhaust gasses .... surely the only time there is any turbulence is when WG is closed ?
