thanks for the updates howard
the new trim V average area thing will be interesting,, i guess a bit like when you compare a t04E 46 trim with V or H trim to4B wheels
- fairly similar average compressor area , but radically different trims
the difference may just be how efficient they are at higher pressure ratios

do any of you US guys get access to BELZONA 1111 epoxy metal ?
where i am its not cheap and pretty exclusive
( used by the US navy and only a handful of top mining companies )
but it holds on like **** to a shovel and sets very hard and very inert and makes devcon look like play-dough in comparison

i have used it for many years to close EGR/ACV and the water to manifold crossovers and have never seen it shrink or crack even in exhaust applications

 

thanks are in order:

i built an engine for Joel Serrano last year for his recently acquired 22,000 mile FD. Joel is pretty much putting it together following my recipe... a dual purpose street/road racer. it is actually his BW turbo that he has kindly lent out for testing. in addition, after hearing about my JB Weld woes Joe came up w the Splash Zone and acrylic paint fix as well as a 22,000 mile throttle body! (he is using an uprated throttle body from RC. it has 55mm secondaries and a larger primary.)

we do plan to switch throttle bodies at some point during the testing to see the differential.

so i met Joel at one of his labs and we did the mod to both throttle bodies.

here's a pic of the 3 TBs. oh and a 427 side oiler too.



also a modded (by Joe) Ford GT and ZR1 and some Ferrari which is probably the go-to-dinner ride also grace the lab. all the cars get seriously excercised at Road America.



the plan is of course to build an FD for Joel that will wax them. (the GT might be a challenge)

i also would like to thank ScorpionT for his help selecting/acquiring the S300s63.

howard

 

Don't disparage JB Weld, especially the original formula. In fact, Honda actually has a TSB for their dealers to seal up engine block using JB Weld.

True story. I bought a used motor 2 years ago, it was leaking like crazy even with the oil pan brace and reseal done twice for the previous owner.

I opened it up, and here is the reason for the oil leak:



How to fix this? I went around several welding shops to see if they could weld this but none would touch it due to the cast iron material. The alternative is to put in a replacement rear housing and of course a porting job + a partial rebuild on a motor that had 20,000 hard miles.

I called a mechanic friend who used to wrench for circle track cars. He recommended JB weld but to roughen up the surface, clean thoroughly with acetone, apply and wait at least 3 days.

Not trusting this, I sent 2 blown motors to Howard to have him rebuild it while I have this JB welded motor to run around in.

That was 18 months and 9000 miles ago with 14psi boost routinely. Not a drop of oil on the ground either. Now that I have a rebuilt motor from Howard, I am even harder on this motor but it's running fine, no oil leaks, no other issues.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Good to see you are back on track howard. As im looking forward to see your dyno of the GT4094R. As that is the turbo im thinking about for my E85 bridge port engine with a 1.16 hot side.

JT

 

What sort of ignition system Are you going to be using for these test purposes? HKS DLI?

 

when i built my FD in 2004 i wanted to take ignition out of the picture...

given we are making 500 rwhp and my plan is to make 600 for the Texas Mile.

600 rw is 690 flywheel from 159 cubic inches! (of course i know others have made 1100 rw but that's not my objective)

690/159 is 4.34 hp per cubic inch. with that comes stratospheric combustion pressure.

ignition at that level is like trying to drive a nail into a block of granite.

so best bring the A game.

since 2004 i run a Jacobs FC3000 amp and an MSD 8253 coil on each lead plug. again, that is one amp and one coil on one plug. the amps are in the driver's side compartment behind my seat. the coils are 5 inches from each plug. i run Magnecore 11 mm custom plug wires.

the trail plugs are run w no amp and an MSD 8207 coil on each.

plugs are NGK 6725 10.5 or 11 heat range. (i do run the much cheaper EGVs on the street...10.5)

when i first started running 100% methanol as AI injectant i started way rich. i remember my AFR reading 9.2 and my ignition didn't miss a beat!

the FD has a marvelous crank fire ignition trigger setup and the stock ignition is fine at 400 i am told.

i do recommend that you run 10 heat range minimum plugs as there is a need to remove heat from the plug boss. on most engines i disassemble there is a lateral carbon marking which indicates the plug boss grows w heat thereby moving the apex seal off the housing surface as indicated by the carbon. the cooler the plug the less boss growth.

ignition above 400 is very important for the pumped up rotary. using water as AI injectant further increases the need for uprated firepower.

howard

 

I will be using the same plugs as what you are using.

I am putting a full bridged 13B in my rx4 and will be using the DLI system to start with and then start to build up a much stronger ignition to go beyond 1.5 bar.

 

bumpstart,
I have used Belzona a couple of times, the problem is that it’s very expensive and exclusive here too in the USA. I prefer the SpashZone, easy to get, reasonable in price and always works.

 

spent mon and tues wrenching on the car. tues was all elecs. based on considering the numerous splices, their age and general condition, i decided wednesday to replace the engine wiring harness. i located one in Austin from a board member that is virtually new so it will be a few more days. just wanted all to know that we are actually moving forward.

howard

 

Got any pics of the JB Weld carnage?

Jack

 

What would you suggest for a car with an HFS-6 (50/50 water/meth) running in the range of 450-500whp?

I don't know if I'll be in the 450-500whp range (though I'd love to, considering I've got a streetported motor with a PT6265 and hope to tune in the 18-20psi range), but I'd like to be prepared for future power levels.

I ask because I've got to replace my leading coils, all wires and plugs, anyway... I'm a big fan of doing it right, once.

Currently I'm just running a stock ignition setup with an HKS Twin Power (10/10.5 plugs).

Thanks!

Levi

Also, was there any reason why you didn't include any of the Billet/Ball Bearing turbos in your comparison?

 

JB weld sucks.. It's too porous and won't really seal well...

Use some marine tex and that will fix you up..

 

Why all the filler talk?

Why not just weld up a part that is easily removed from the car?

 

I am running an HKS Twinfire and I've touched 21psi plenty of times with water injection...not one hiccup. Identical setup as yours of course, though I'm running (10/10 plugs)

 

Hey Howard,

You've mentioned your Jacobs setup and how well it's worked for you... But what would you recommend for those of us that are aiming at 20psi with 50/50 AI?

I ask this because the Jacobs has long been gone from the market. As far as I can tell, they don't even have a replacement product available.

Thanks!

massi

 

Can you give me more info on your plugs. I can't seem to find anything on the ngk 7625 Do you have a link on where to get them.

 

I think Howard made a typo. I think he ment R7420's (also rebranded as Greddy Race Plug Pro)

thewird

 

"the new trim V average area thing will be interesting,, i guess a bit like when you compare a t04E 46 trim with V or H trim to4B wheels
- fairly similar average compressor area , but radically different trims
the difference may just be how efficient they are at higher pressure ratios"

"interesting" is the key word for me. i think we will have our answer in real data terms as soon as the BW is dynoed.

the BW has virtually the same compressor area but is very different (52 V 63!) as to trim V a TO4Z, PT67.


another BW, the S361/R85 which has a slightly smaller compressor area (6.667 V 7.06) and a 53 trim made 400 SAE rwhp at 5500 w the boost set at 20 psi. i really use the 400 at 5500 as a mid range benchmark.... so the point is the 53 trim seems to spool well. it was on one of my customer motors that has the same ports as my motor.

"Got any pics of the JB Weld carnage?"

most the plug actually stayed in place. not much went thru the motor. of course the diffuser was broken by the JBWeld and that melted and adhered to the sides of a couple of the apex seals. IMO if the JBWeld had been topcoated w acrylic clearcoat i would not have had the problem. no apex seals were broken and the housings/rotors are fine.

"What would you suggest for a car with an HFS-6 (50/50 water/meth) running in the range of 450-500whp?"

"what would you recommend for those of us that are aiming at 20psi with 50/50 AI?"

i don't have enough experience w differing ignition setups to answer your question... certainly others on the board could.

for instance: "I am running an HKS Twinfire and I've touched 21psi plenty of times with water injection...not one hiccup. Identical setup as yours of course, though I'm running (10/10 plugs)"

"why you didn't include any of the Billet/Ball Bearing turbos in your comparison?"

it has been so long since i initially structured this project that there weren't alot of billet options. things of course have gotten extremely interesting w all the new turbos. if i finally get rolling i do expect to widen the list into that area.

"Why not just weld up a part that is easily removed from the car?"

we did and i wasn't happy w it. i now have another TB.

"I can't seem to find anything on the ngk 7625"

sorry, that was a typo... 6725

better plugs are expensive but all you are paying for is a more durable metal in the electrode. cheap plugs run with high output ignitions live an extremely short life. more expensive plugs live longer and are less prone to (expensive) misfires.

one of the neat things that the Jacobs does is it doen't go to full power until it senses the need. so even though my ignition is high output my plugs have fairly good longevity.

 

Im getting very paranoid about the ingectors diffusers or what ever they called.

How the car work with out them???

Can i take them all off

I just dont want to blow my engine for that!!!

 

I'm just concerned about possible break-up at the higher rpm range, not sure if stock coils and a Twinfire will be all that solid.

The reason why I'm unsure is that I'm currently running a Twinfire and I was seeing minor break-up at only 13psi! But then again, it could just be that my coils are on the way out... I figure since I've got to replace them anyway (obviously) I might as well ensure that I do it right, once!

 

I run hks twin power, stock coils and 9 plugs all around which I am going to switch to 10 trailing. No hiccups, car seems to have slightly low compression in rear housing but no break up and I run 20psi daily and 24-25psi when I feel the need. I also run two 760cc jets of 100% denatured alcohol injection.

 

update:

may 10 after chasing an ignition/startup problem Luke and i decided we'd had it w my main eng harness. i received a new harness sat may 14. i disassembled it and reassembled it for a single turbo may 15. i overnighted it to Beyond Redline monday may 16. i found some additional (necessary) items that i overnighted so as to arrive last thursday may 19. hopefully we should be running early this coming week.

"paranoid about the ingectors diffusers"

probably no worries. as it turns out the JB Weld that came loose from my throttle body hit my diffuser causing it to fail. i do think Mazda put them in for a reason (atomisation) and as long as they have not been cracked if they were taken out of your motor when it was ported you are fine.

"I was seeing minor break-up at only 13psi!"

it is highly unlikely the TwinFire is the cause. do look elsewhere.

"9 plugs all around"

almost all rotaries i disassemble exhibit a lateral carbon deposit on the flanks of the sparkplug holes. this means the apex seal is not making contact w the housing at that spot. the reason is the heat around the sparkplug grows the plug hole upwards and it pushes the apex seal off the housing. and of course the other issue, from the same cause, is cracks around the hole.

run a colder (10) plug in all four holes to decrease the heat and better keep your apex seals on the housing surface rather up in the air.

"100% denatured alcohol injection"

alcohol is pure magic...

howard

 

I'm getting very paranoid about the air bleeders should I have to take them of or no??

 

You're right. I don't think it's the Twin Power at all. Ray Wilson (PFS) said it was likely the stock coils when he noticed the break-up as he was applying the break-in tune.

My initial question was mainly geared towards finding out what the best combo for higher power would be. I figure since I'll be replacing the coils, leads and possibly spark plugs (depending on if they are fouled, which they shouldn't be since they are relatively new) once I get back I might as well ensure that I'm replacing them with the best option.

 

Howard, Question; do you think 200mph in a mile is doable, with a 13B RX7, only got a mile not like Bonneville where 2-4miles to build speed?

texas mile is more like a 1 mile drag race??

Ron