Check the bottom of the page : http://www.sdsefi.com/

www.atpturbo.com also sells them. They're listed a bit higher, but their site is significantly more accessible.

Hope that helps.

 

update

i did expect to be running last monday but upon startup it was clear that the motor was only running on the rear rotor.

(front EGT 110 degrees F, rear 550)

white clouds out the tailpipe.

i figured it to be a primary injector and eventually swapped them between the rotors. since the front rotor continued to not run i eliminated the primaries after checking wiring. (which is a completely unbutchered new harness)...

i then checked ignition and found all four plugs were firing.

i did a compression check and a coolant pressure check and found both to be perfect.

the next item on the list will be to check my new EV14 secondary injectors. it could be the front secondary injector is stuck open.. i will say i did not see alot of gas on the L1 plug when i pulled it.

i did check continuity from the injector plug back to the PFC and checked the other wire to ground. so if it isn't a stuck injector it could be the PFC not emitting a signal to the front primary. i am hoping that isn't the case of course. (brand new PFC)

i did take the last couple of days off to build a customer motor but will revisit my car either today or tomorrow.

howard

 

hey I'm having the same problem with my ems. Ithink

 

Try swapping to a known working PFC, seen a few fry one of the primary injectors. Same symptoms.

thewird

 

Grab a long screwdriver and hold it against the injector body while the motor is being cranked. Hold the handle up to your ear, and you will easily determine if the injector is stuck or clicking as normal.

 

Are you still using the FJO injector driver? Noid lights are cheap and help a ton in these situations.

 

i do have a Snap-on stethoscope that works great and will put it to use monday. i do hope to get to the bottom of this tomorrow.

thanks all,

hc

 

Hey Howard,
I'd say if the injector was stuck open it would be spewing some serious gas and the plug would be soaked so I'd lean toward the secondary just leaking. Possibly a pinched o ring or something.

 

The Primary injector is stuck shut.

If it was stuck open... especially with a ID 2000 secondary you would probably hydrolock the motor trying to crank it. Think about it... 2000 cc/min at approximately 43 psi. The rotor chamber is only about 83cc at it's largest. nevermind when it is at TDC.

Apply 12V to the injector it should click. If it is stuck; remove it and bang it on something. How long were the injectors open to the atmosphere before fuel was ran to them?

C. Lidwig. He should not be running an injector driver because the ID injectors are high impedance.



John

 

I had a similar issue in my silver car when I went started troubleshooting my fuel system and made this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/how-troubleshoot-your-fuel-system-871361/

However, mine turned out to be a burned out injector driver in the PFC unfortunately. I spent a week chasing my tail before I pulled the PFC out of one of my other FD's and it fired right up. Mine would not start at all though before I changed PFC's.

Good luck Howard.

 

^ That was the thread that made me check to see if my injectors were not stuck shut after getting them cleaned (one primary was). Thank you for taking the time to post that info.

John

 

I had this problem but it was the secondaries that where stuck (well, one of them at least) I was breaking in my clutch and didn't use the secondaries for a few weeks. I tested the ecu, tested continuity, even applied power and used a stethescope to hear them click and they seemed fine.

It wasn't until I primed the fuel system and manually pulsed the injectors for 2-3 seconds at a time did they actually work properly. Just a thought.

 

update:

after a bit of work it is at least clear why my engine is running on one rotor:

my new (July) Power FC is not outputting signal to the front primary injector. probably the driver is fried.

when this became clear i decided to post on the board that i think has some of the smartest elec hp on the net, EFI101.

http://efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=47008#47008

i was delighted when John Pizzuto (J&S Safguard knock controls) responded. he indicated i had a volt spike and sent me both a link to a 12 page paper on the subject and also suggested:

"Install a V24ZA50P MOV between 12v and Gnd at the input of the units."

i am sort of surprised the Power FC and my other units did not employ this 77 cent unit.

of course while the Varistor will protect my units going forward the question still remains, what caused the V spikes...

here's the timeline for my elec carnage:

April 09 bought a "high output" alternator
May 09 good dyno session 507 SAE rwhp at 20 psi w my twin TO4 setup
Sep 09 brief dyno session to check backpressure w smaller hotside housings
Nov 09 sold twin setup
winter 09/10 designed new single turbo system, bought GT4094
spring 10 dealt w delay re clutch for my Tremec T56 trans
Nov 10 dyno new single
lost Datalogit which had worked since 04
lost Kenne Bell Boost A Pump which had worked since 04
(had engine problem when JB Weld went thru motor, redid motor and back to dyno)
lost Power FC on dyno. no output to primary front injector
spring 11 bought new primary engine elec harness
Beyond Redline rewired all elec modules.
Aug 11 dyno
lost FJO AI module
drove car (90 miles) home, up on jackstands. designed new AI system using fuel injectors driven by Power FC (w FJO Peak and Hold running the secondaries and AI injectors)
spent a week cleaning up various items.
10 days ago on startup lost the primary front injector.

swapped old Power FC, same exact situation.

swapped in stock ECU, motor ran fine on both primaries.

possible causes:

Voltage Dump: if the alt is charging and anywhere in the primary circuit becomes open, even for 40 Ms, the V can spike to over 100V.
,
Spikes can happen on a "jump start" using a high powered battery charger. this got me to thinking... i acquired a new trick Schumacher battery charger around the time that my troubles started. i brought it to all dyno sessions and had it hooked up at 10 Amps. maybe it is causing a V spike. i may have had it hooked up when i recently started the engine and lost the second Power FC.

finally there is the high output alternator. it was on the car thru 2 09 dyno sessions where i had no problems but i will swap in a stock alt just to cover my bases.

the Power FCs will be on their way to Ari to get checked and fixed and i will really go thru my primary (battery/ battery cable/alternator) circuits as well as figuring out how to incorporate the Varistors into the system.

we move ahead.

howard

 

curiouser and curiouser...

so w all these modules blowing how come none of the fuses blew to protect them?

the ECU has a 30 A fuse, the FJO AI module has a 15 A fuse etc etc...

BTW...

does anyone know anyone in the good old USA that can repair a Power FC? the Apexi option is 2 months in Japan.

hc

 

flyback black emf on shutdown or start up
my guess would be the caps in the CDI system shutting down and backfeeding
but also maybe something with significant windings like fuel pump, fans or alt
( relays should isolate the former two )

you may need to try that suppressor circuit on your other electronic goodies to protect them

did you make changes in the cdi system ?
thinking earthing or mounting or signal polarity

 

I think you just had a bad stroke of luck. Poblem isn't unique to your car and has occured before with brand new powerfc's with people that just drive it. Its just a weak point in the powerfc. I think this is a case where u don't need to overthink it.

thewird

 

Search "flywheel diode" Howard.

 

Because fuses offer overcurrent protection, not transient overvoltage protection. Additionally, many device outputs provide current sinking capability and may be damaged by external events beyond their design limits. (The injector outputs are an example of this.)

Overvoltage protection is offered by clamping the battery +12V rail to ground with either a MOV type device or a zener diode of adequate rating. These will help control transient voltage events on the system. As has been pointed out, a spike of only microseconds can cause breakdown and failure of many semiconductor devices, rendering them inoperable.

The battery functions as a load, helping smooth and stabilize the alternator's output. A failing battery or connection can cause the unloading effect that can result in an alternator induced voltage spike. The voltage regulator cannot respond fast enough to prevent the spike and even if it could there is stored emf in the alternator's rotor that may be sufficient to cause a transient voltage event. A failing regulator could be problematic as well.

Moreover, I have seen first hand that the noise and ripple introduced from the use of a battery charger can cause the FD regulator to behave in an unusual and unpredictable manner--although in my case, I suffered no residual damage from it.

Given that your failures seem to be clustered, it is likely that they are related to one event or one cascading event.

Hope this helps.

 

i do greatly appreciate all of the above and am doing my research... one of the items that could be contributing is the relay that i use to on/off my meth pump... as i understand relays closing can trigger V spikes...

only one of lots of stones to turn over. i would love to find someone other than Apexi/Japan that could fix my Power FCs.

hc

 

Howard ...my car won't be running for 4 months at the very least... I can send you mine and then you can send yours out and when you get yours back you can send mine back to me if you'd like. Otherwise... it's just sitting comfortably in my passenger side kick panel

 

Can you put a diode in your relay circuit to stop any current flow spikes?

 

Alot of relays have voltage suppression diodes in the circuit. They are usually oem style. If you take a look around some electronic stores you be sure to find them. Its a problem that has always been existent when you cut a magnetic/ electrical circuit.

 

"Alot of relays have voltage suppression diodes in the circuit."

take a look at my relay... it is the X036, the one with the big white space in the coil surpression box.



at some point before the carnage my shop decided to replace the AI pump relay w the above.

the relay replaced was the R1 (no connection the the FD R1) on the following list. note it has a flyback resistor or diode..



thanks to the guidence of the above contributees (what did i do before the net?) i have learned alot about voltage spikes... and an easy way to generate them is with a relay that doesn't have a high voltage spike lockdown.

volt spikes, because they have little current can go right thru a fuse and if they get into any solid state components it is sudden death.

when a relay gets the signal to turn something off, say a pump, the magnetic field collapses and as much as 200 volts can be created and it heads backwards towards the controller, the diode or resistor stops it cold.

i was wondering how i lost my last Power FC since it was dead on startup... then i remembered that i was testing my new boost switch pump trigger setup and i did turn the pump on and off a few times by jumping the switch.

poof, another Power FC in need of repair.

if you are adding a relay...

i do have a question for you circuit knowledgable guys... i can clearly understand the failure of the solid state pump control module as it is in the direct path of the V surge. can this spike effect ofther modules within my harness?

 

Howard, I hope you are able to find another source to repair the PFC. I had no such luck a few years back.

 

I know of PFCs being repaired in the uk- I believe it was done by another ecu manufacturer. I would think similar could be done by a friendly US ecu manufacturer? If it cannot be repaired, would it not be a good opportunity to consider using a different ecu? Finally, on a more esoteric note, would these new fancy pants solid-state power distribution systems being made by motec etc protect against such over voltage transients?