Warlock muffler with Q-tec installed
02-21-03, 07:44 PM
#1
Warlock muffler with Q-tec installed and running
This was an experiment to see how well this setup functioned since no one knew. These are my preliminary results as I will keep changing the system design to actually determine what does and does not work good. I am making no firm conclusions to the feasibility of the system at this time.
Well I finally got off of my bum and installed the thing. I removed a Racing Beat streetport long primary system. The new system is a short primary collecting at a 2 1/2" collector and expanding to 3". From here it goes all the way back to the Warlock muffler. The muffler has 2 flow paths. The quiet one is the standard S-shaped turbo style exiting one tip and the other is just a straight through bypass exiting another tip. The bypass has a Q-tec electronic butterfly valve that I can use from the seat to open or close it. Generally a long primary system should have more power throughout the torque spread so I was curious to see how much I would lose or if I would. It's tough being the guinea pig but someones got to try it to see if it works or not. May as well be me.
First impression, just listening: You can obviously adjust the noise level by opening or closing the valve. The volume changes somewhere between "I'm going to get arrested loud all the way to Holy F@#king **** Batman my ears are bleeding!!!! Didn't expect it to be NEAR this loud when closed. Hmmmm, need to sit back at the drawing board for a while...I've got it! Turbo! Thats next since I've been pondering this for a while. I have a turbo lying around anyways.
Second impression, driving: Where the hell did my low end go? I knew the short primary would lose but sheese not cool man. It really starts picking up good at about 6000 rpm now even with the cutout closed. I shift at 7000
I'm too scared to see how it does when open. The long primary has low end, midrange, and top end. The short primary lacks the first 2. Still more power than a stock exhaust but so hard to go backwards in performance. I need to definitely add a pre-silencer to the system.
Overall I'm relatively disappointed with the performance of the setup. On the other hand I think the performance part lacks solely due to the short vs long primary setup. Maybe I'll get under there next week and change the system to a long primary and see what happens. I'm definitely going to add some sort of pre-silencer. I've got a hunch the lowend power will return. The dual 3" tips out the back looks pretty ricey. They aren't even directly next to each other but rather about 3" away. I have no pictures yet but when the weather clears up from the monsoon I'll get some.
Oh well. Several wondered, including myself. I took the risk and now we know. I'll keep playing with the whole setup over the next few weeks though to make adjustments and see how little changes affect performance. I think I can still make it work good yet though. Round one gets a big dissappointing thumbs down. Stayed tuned from the results of round 2 next week after I move the collector back several feet and mess around with internal muffler packing. If all else fails I still have 4 different other mufflers lying around and 2 presilencers as well. Time may or may not come to scrounge up another design.
Well I finally got off of my bum and installed the thing. I removed a Racing Beat streetport long primary system. The new system is a short primary collecting at a 2 1/2" collector and expanding to 3". From here it goes all the way back to the Warlock muffler. The muffler has 2 flow paths. The quiet one is the standard S-shaped turbo style exiting one tip and the other is just a straight through bypass exiting another tip. The bypass has a Q-tec electronic butterfly valve that I can use from the seat to open or close it. Generally a long primary system should have more power throughout the torque spread so I was curious to see how much I would lose or if I would. It's tough being the guinea pig but someones got to try it to see if it works or not. May as well be me.
First impression, just listening: You can obviously adjust the noise level by opening or closing the valve. The volume changes somewhere between "I'm going to get arrested loud all the way to Holy F@#king **** Batman my ears are bleeding!!!! Didn't expect it to be NEAR this loud when closed. Hmmmm, need to sit back at the drawing board for a while...I've got it! Turbo! Thats next since I've been pondering this for a while. I have a turbo lying around anyways.
Second impression, driving: Where the hell did my low end go? I knew the short primary would lose but sheese not cool man. It really starts picking up good at about 6000 rpm now even with the cutout closed. I shift at 7000
I'm too scared to see how it does when open. The long primary has low end, midrange, and top end. The short primary lacks the first 2. Still more power than a stock exhaust but so hard to go backwards in performance. I need to definitely add a pre-silencer to the system.Overall I'm relatively disappointed with the performance of the setup. On the other hand I think the performance part lacks solely due to the short vs long primary setup. Maybe I'll get under there next week and change the system to a long primary and see what happens. I'm definitely going to add some sort of pre-silencer. I've got a hunch the lowend power will return. The dual 3" tips out the back looks pretty ricey. They aren't even directly next to each other but rather about 3" away. I have no pictures yet but when the weather clears up from the monsoon I'll get some.
Oh well. Several wondered, including myself. I took the risk and now we know. I'll keep playing with the whole setup over the next few weeks though to make adjustments and see how little changes affect performance. I think I can still make it work good yet though. Round one gets a big dissappointing thumbs down. Stayed tuned from the results of round 2 next week after I move the collector back several feet and mess around with internal muffler packing. If all else fails I still have 4 different other mufflers lying around and 2 presilencers as well. Time may or may not come to scrounge up another design.
Last edited by rotarygod; 02-21-03 at 07:57 PM.
02-22-03, 07:00 AM
#2
Airflow is my life
Good stuff rotarygod. Can you add info on your motor? Stockport? SP? BP? PP?.......... I remember being disappointed with my homemade short primary setup on my stock port 12A. It seemed to be very flat, no torque anywhere. Im still debating going back in and giving it another go after looking at some of the new road race designs comming out.
02-22-03, 03:55 PM
#3
It is a streetport 6-port GSL-SE. It's pretty strange because my 6-port 2nd gen responded so much different to the different exhaust setups I tried. Granted that car had stock ports. I don't think the power loss is any fault of the muffler but merely the fact that I went back to a short primary system from a long primary. I am going to move the collector back to the rear of the car next week sometime. I know the collector with the rapid expansion works good since I've used this before. The n/a race setups that are not restricted by rules use long primary systems. Short primaries are used due to class sanctions. All of those cars are pretty equal though.
The muffler was wayyyyy too loud even closed. It sounds really raspy as well. Really Honda like. I hate that. I am going to go into the muffler itself and add muffler packing to quiet it down a bunch. It will restrict the flow and give less power as well but thats what the cutout is for. I have 2 24" long presilencers lying around and will fab up a very similar style to the Racing Beat system with my own header and then use my current collector. I think this may work good yet. I just wish it looked cooler. Oh well, function over form.
The muffler was wayyyyy too loud even closed. It sounds really raspy as well. Really Honda like. I hate that. I am going to go into the muffler itself and add muffler packing to quiet it down a bunch. It will restrict the flow and give less power as well but thats what the cutout is for. I have 2 24" long presilencers lying around and will fab up a very similar style to the Racing Beat system with my own header and then use my current collector. I think this may work good yet. I just wish it looked cooler. Oh well, function over form.
02-22-03, 06:12 PM
#4
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thats a bummer, but at least we know. i'm switching to the rb long system tomorrow
mike
mike
02-22-03, 06:51 PM
#5
Airflow is my life
See thats the dilemma. For years and years the long primary was the shiot. Now I see these short primaries comming into vogue.
I think Im gonna build both, with flanges for quick changes and see what happens. BTW- where do you get a pipe to do the megaphone/rapid expansion chamber?
Again the burning question is still whats best for a stockport n/a motor????????????????
I think Im gonna build both, with flanges for quick changes and see what happens. BTW- where do you get a pipe to do the megaphone/rapid expansion chamber?
Again the burning question is still whats best for a stockport n/a motor????????????????
02-22-03, 08:31 PM
#6
What part of town are you in rg? I'd like to see what you've done and how loud it really is. I did some exhaust experimenting in the last two years and came up mostly frustrated but with some pretty solid results in favor of the long primary system. Those results were all personal experiences, no paper trail or proof to show. All in all I think I tried seven or eight different setups prior to my current one.
02-22-03, 10:28 PM
#7
Carl: I made the expansion/collector.
Nimrod: I live on the north side near Stuebner-Airline and Louetta a couple miles north of FM1960.
I'll keep posting the results as I make changes. I am even going to go back and re-try the true dual setup that as everyone knows I hate so much. This is based on my personal opinion of the way it sounds. You never know I may go back and eat my words. I've been wrong once before. It's conceivable that I could actually be wrong twice in my life!
I also have an experiment that I am going to try. It is a collected long primary setup that has the q-tec butterfly valve immediatly in line after the collector which will close the entire system off. Before the collector I am going to split off each side to a true dual system. The idea is that the powerband can be adjusted by opening or closing the q-tec. This would either make the system true dual or true dual + collected. I stared at a Ferrari 360 Modena and this is how they do it. It may or may not work but as with this whole experiment you never know until you try. The cool thing about this setup is that I could take it to a dyno and show the results for a true dual system, the combo system, or the collected by just plugging up the duals tips! I am pretty convinced that when my trial is finally done I will truly know the absolute best exhaust setup for a streetported 6-port. If only someone would let me experiment with their stock port 
I know I probably wouldn't trust me either Then again if anyone in the Houston area has a stock port GSL-SE and wants to bolt up some of my past setups as another experiment just let me know. This way we'd know the best setup for both port styles!
Nimrod: I live on the north side near Stuebner-Airline and Louetta a couple miles north of FM1960.
I'll keep posting the results as I make changes. I am even going to go back and re-try the true dual setup that as everyone knows I hate so much. This is based on my personal opinion of the way it sounds. You never know I may go back and eat my words. I've been wrong once before. It's conceivable that I could actually be wrong twice in my life!
I also have an experiment that I am going to try. It is a collected long primary setup that has the q-tec butterfly valve immediatly in line after the collector which will close the entire system off. Before the collector I am going to split off each side to a true dual system. The idea is that the powerband can be adjusted by opening or closing the q-tec. This would either make the system true dual or true dual + collected. I stared at a Ferrari 360 Modena and this is how they do it. It may or may not work but as with this whole experiment you never know until you try. The cool thing about this setup is that I could take it to a dyno and show the results for a true dual system, the combo system, or the collected by just plugging up the duals tips! I am pretty convinced that when my trial is finally done I will truly know the absolute best exhaust setup for a streetported 6-port. If only someone would let me experiment with their stock port I know I probably wouldn't trust me either Then again if anyone in the Houston area has a stock port GSL-SE and wants to bolt up some of my past setups as another experiment just let me know. This way we'd know the best setup for both port styles!
Last edited by rotarygod; 02-22-03 at 10:35 PM.
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02-23-03, 12:20 AM
#8
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i think the easy way to do it on a gsl-se is to run one set of pipes over the axel and one under?
ive noticed tha summit has collectors, dunno if they are any good though
mike
ive noticed tha summit has collectors, dunno if they are any good though
mike
02-24-03, 02:56 PM
#9
I pondered running the pipe under the axle but it would be really low. I'd also have to tether the axle to keep it from crashing into the pipe. I do have the 3" pipe running over the axle now so it can be done. I'm not sure how to get a big enough muffler on my experimantal system yet. Hmmm... smaller gastank? 
The only summit collectors I have seen are for 4 into 1 setups.
The only summit collectors I have seen are for 4 into 1 setups.
02-24-03, 04:22 PM
#10
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Originally posted by rotarygod
I pondered running the pipe under the axle but it would be really low. I'd also have to tether the axle to keep it from crashing into the pipe. I do have the 3" pipe running over the axle now so it can be done. I'm not sure how to get a big enough muffler on my experimantal system yet. Hmmm... smaller gastank?
The only summit collectors I have seen are for 4 into 1 setups.
I pondered running the pipe under the axle but it would be really low. I'd also have to tether the axle to keep it from crashing into the pipe. I do have the 3" pipe running over the axle now so it can be done. I'm not sure how to get a big enough muffler on my experimantal system yet. Hmmm... smaller gastank?
The only summit collectors I have seen are for 4 into 1 setups.
mike
02-24-03, 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by rotarygod
I pondered running the pipe under the axle but it would be really low. I'd also have to tether the axle to keep it from crashing into the pipe. I do have the 3" pipe running over the axle now so it can be done. I'm not sure how to get a big enough muffler on my experimantal system yet. Hmmm... smaller gastank?
The only summit collectors I have seen are for 4 into 1 setups.
I pondered running the pipe under the axle but it would be really low. I'd also have to tether the axle to keep it from crashing into the pipe. I do have the 3" pipe running over the axle now so it can be done. I'm not sure how to get a big enough muffler on my experimantal system yet. Hmmm... smaller gastank?
The only summit collectors I have seen are for 4 into 1 setups.
mike
02-25-03, 01:03 AM
#12
I've been searching the web for reviews of the warlock muffler and the biggest negatives I'm finding is about them easily rusting. I painted mine though. Interesting? It must be that the rotary is just so damn loud when compared to a piston engine. Everyone seems to love their tone saying things like very quiet with a deep moan, etc... I did see a test about exhaust backpressure and it showed that when the Warlock is closed it has a quite high amount of backpressure. Maybe this is why the car is so much slower? I still don't think so but I'm going to go out far away from anything and anybody and open the cutout and floor it! Then I'll see how the performance differs. I'm still going to go back to a long primary system with 2 presilencers regardless untill I get the turbo system fabbed up. Stay tuned...
06-12-03, 05:21 PM
#16
That muffler is such a loud pos that I pulled it back off. When it was on though the q-tec worked just fine. It got hot but nothing too insane. I'd be a little concerned if it were under the car closer to the engine. Currently working on a turbo setup for that car using a quiet muffler with the cutout. We'll see how this works later.
06-15-03, 10:08 PM
#18
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I have found that the rotary likes a wool packed muffler instead of a chambered muffler like a piston. The chambered muffler doesnt seem to dissipate the high end sounds that a rotary generates. I put a 3" Terminator muffler on an FD and it is one of the worst sounds I have ever encountered. I lovingly refer to it as the Weedwacker. Where do I get a 3" muffler to quell the sound ?
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