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Ford 3.7L V6 fc

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Old 03-20-15, 08:23 PM
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Ford 3.7L V6 fc

Yes let's start the debate on if it's possible as I am currently working on sourcing parts.
Dimensions of the V6 are as follows:
Width:28-29"
Height:24" or so I'll have to recheck
Length: 24" measured from firewall to furthest motor part.
Oil pan: L shaped, less than 2" @ front and maxes 6" in the lump
Other info: distance between the frame rails are almost exactly the same between the fc and a 2012 Ford F150 V6
The v6 is supposedly 366lbs according to http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mmfp-1006-2011-ford-mustang-37l-v6-engine/
And the na 13b is supposedly 337 wet according to http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html
29lb increase on the front end with almost double the HP and a significant gain in mpg.

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Old 08-22-15, 07:13 PM
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Well if its any help I have a 3.7 I am in the process of swapping into a NA miata. The engine is actually lighter than you think...supposedly it weighs in at a touch over 300lbs without accesories, but I have yet to verify that myself. Alao...total height is 28"...it doesnt fit well in the Miata chasis...now that I have a 7 I may well rethink this and put it in there instead...much more room for everything.
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Old 09-09-15, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicked93gs View Post
Well if its any help I have a 3.7 I am in the process of swapping into a NA miata. The engine is actually lighter than you think...supposedly it weighs in at a touch over 300lbs without accesories, but I have yet to verify that myself. Alao...total height is 28"...it doesnt fit well in the Miata chasis...now that I have a 7 I may well rethink this and put it in there instead...much more room for everything.
Sweet. I have continued to do more research and I'm almost 90% sure the fwd cyclones will bolt on to the mt82 if you have that steel starter plate and a f150/stang intake manifold. My current choice is between a $450 3.7 or a $1100 3.5w/turbos.
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Old 09-09-15, 10:43 AM
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If you plan on modifying the engine, I DONT reccomend the ecoboost 3.5l. For example....if you need more fuel...you HAVE to add secondary fuel injectors...and the only manifold you can add injector bungs to is the FWD ecoboost(it will bolt up to the MT82 btw) intake manifold...its aluminum and has room for bungs, but its VERY tall and extra injectors would make it even taller. The RWD ecoboost manifold is the shortest of all available manifolds...but you cant add extra injectors unless you add them right behind the throttle body ala TBI injection(not a very good option...but I guess it wouldnt hurt since those injectors would only be needed at high boost anyway where the extra airflow would atomize the extra fuel anyway). Direct injection is a PITA to modify, I would rather turbocharge the 3.7L...for the cost difference between a 3.5t and a 3.7l you could pick up a couple turbos. Once boosted I am sure a 3.7 would make more power than an ecoboost anyway...you could safely run 10psi or so...which would put you solidly above 400HP. Another advantage to turbocharging the 3.7l is that you could chose to run a remote mount turbo system for better weight distribution. Both the 3.5 and the 3.7 are great engines...but for my money, the 3.7 was the better choice. Let me know if you need any measurements, I have the 3.7 with a MT82. I also have the ecoboost 3.5l intake manifold...as well as the 3.7l(the 3.5l manifold bolts to the 3.7l heads, but lacks fuel injector bungs...you might be able to fit them if you used a 3/4 adapter plate. The height difference between the 3.5 manifold and the 3.7l manifold is 1.5"(3.5 being shorter).
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Old 09-09-15, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Wicked93gs View Post
If you plan on modifying the engine, I DONT reccomend the ecoboost 3.5l. For example....if you need more fuel...you HAVE to add secondary fuel injectors...and the only manifold you can add injector bungs to is the FWD ecoboost(it will bolt up to the MT82 btw) intake manifold...its aluminum and has room for bungs, but its VERY tall and extra injectors would make it even taller. The RWD ecoboost manifold is the shortest of all available manifolds...but you cant add extra injectors unless you add them right behind the throttle body ala TBI injection(not a very good option...but I guess it wouldnt hurt since those injectors would only be needed at high boost anyway where the extra airflow would atomize the extra fuel anyway). Direct injection is a PITA to modify, I would rather turbocharge the 3.7L...for the cost difference between a 3.5t and a 3.7l you could pick up a couple turbos. Once boosted I am sure a 3.7 would make more power than an ecoboost anyway...you could safely run 10psi or so...which would put you solidly above 400HP. Another advantage to turbocharging the 3.7l is that you could chose to run a remote mount turbo system for better weight distribution. Both the 3.5 and the 3.7 are great engines...but for my money, the 3.7 was the better choice. Let me know if you need any measurements, I have the 3.7 with a MT82. I also have the ecoboost 3.5l intake manifold...as well as the 3.7l(the 3.5l manifold bolts to the 3.7l heads, but lacks fuel injector bungs...you might be able to fit them if you used a 3/4 adapter plate. The height difference between the 3.5 manifold and the 3.7l manifold is 1.5"(3.5 being shorter).
I wonder if the FWD intake will clear the firewall or if I can run some intercooler piping through there from a remote turbo. I'm thinking: remote turbo, 2 liquid to air intercoolers stored conveniently in those two cubbys, intercooler piping run through a rollcage.
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Old 09-09-15, 01:15 PM
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Whether it clears the firewall depends on how far you space the engine off the firewall. Also..the engine weight you quoted was for the turbo version...the non turbo weighs in just a little over 300lbs from what I have read(have yet to hook mine to a fish scale to find out). I guess the question you need to ask first is how much power you are planning to make. The duratec is a capable platform...non direct injected turbo versions(like they used in the Noble M12) make north of 400HP with less displacement than the duratec 35 and 37. In the Ginetta G60 the 3.7l makes 310 HP from the NA 3.7. I believe they run a Haltech engine management system. People routinely make 350HP out of the 3.7 once adding longtubes, x pipe, intake etc.(the usual intake header exhaust(IHE)). If you are shooting for 500HP...either the 3.7 or the 3.5 will get you there(assuming the 3.7 is boosted) though the 3.5t will do it without touching the internals(I suspect the 3.7 would as well, but dont know for sure). I tend to find 300HP is more than enough for a car weighing in under 3000lbs(10:1 power to weight ratio) for the street, but some people like to drive monsters around...I prefer OEM reliability for a daily driver myself.
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Old 09-09-15, 01:36 PM
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I will probably leave the motor stockish for a year or so with maybe a reflash for better mpg at lower rpms.
I'd want to get used to the cars handling with added weight. I'm betting the 8.8 I'd have to use will probably weigh more than the stock na unit I have.
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Old 09-09-15, 03:35 PM
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The Ford 8.8 IRS weighs 80lbs for an iron case version(tbird, cougar) or 70lbs for an aluminum case version(explorer, cobra, 2013+mustang). I have a Tbird version for the Miata...3.23 gearing LSD(roughly the same gearing as a 2015 mustang V6 with the performance package, just a hair higher...performance package uses a 3.31, normal 2015 mustang v6 uses a 2.87 I think). It still didnt answer the question though...eventual HP goals?
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Old 09-10-15, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicked93gs View Post
The Ford 8.8 IRS weighs 80lbs for an iron case version(tbird, cougar) or 70lbs for an aluminum case version(explorer, cobra, 2013+mustang). I have a Tbird version for the Miata...3.23 gearing LSD(roughly the same gearing as a 2015 mustang V6 with the performance package, just a hair higher...performance package uses a 3.31, normal 2015 mustang v6 uses a 2.87 I think). It still didnt answer the question though...eventual HP goals?
N/a goal would be 300rwhp with 30-40mpg as it would become my new daily driver. Turbocharged or maybe centrifugal supercharged 435-500hp with min 30mph highway. I'm thinking with the variable valve timing and a supercharger it wouldn't be hard to make it a Miller cycle engine.
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Old 09-10-15, 01:18 PM
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Better off with a turbo(or twins) than a supercharger...especially if MPG is your goal. Either engine will get you there...but the 3.5t is unlikely to fit between the rails with the turbos in stock location. If you were planning on relocating them to a remote mount setup that may work. Just remember the limitations of direct injection and the lack of aftermarket injectors for it. You might well be able to get away with 2 large post throttle body injectors for extra fuel though. Engine management is the next issue. Do you plan on running the stock ECU or something else? The stock ECU is a huge PITA requiring the ECU, the cluster, the fuse box, the ignition switch, the key, and the ECU, the drive by wire pedal...along with all associated wiring harnesses. The PATS(passive anti theft system) requires all those modules to allow the car to start(gotta love CAN communications and the decentralized computer logic it allows). As far as aftermarket standalone systems...you have Haltec which I know works because of the Ginetta G60. Megasquirt 3 with a ms3x card will work as well...but to get the VVT working, you have a lot of inputs and outputs....the crank sensor plus 4 cam angle sensors...all of which require their own VR conditioner circuit. You have the usual MAP, CLT, and IAT sensors. Then you need 4 PWM outputs for the cam phasers, 6 ignition outputs for the COPs, etc. Now you dont really need everything to get it running...you can add the VVT stuff later...but you will be down on power until you do.
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Old 09-10-15, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Wicked93gs View Post
Whether it clears the firewall depends on how far you space the engine off the firewall. Also..the engine weight you quoted was for the turbo version...the non turbo weighs in just a little over 300lbs from what I have read(have yet to hook mine to a fish scale to find out). I guess the question you need to ask first is how much power you are planning to make. The duratec is a capable platform...non direct injected turbo versions(like they used in the Noble M12) make north of 400HP with less displacement than the duratec 35 and 37. In the Ginetta G60 the 3.7l makes 310 HP from the NA 3.7. I believe they run a Haltech engine management system. People routinely make 350HP out of the 3.7 once adding longtubes, x pipe, intake etc.(the usual intake header exhaust(IHE)). If you are shooting for 500HP...either the 3.7 or the 3.5 will get you there(assuming the 3.7 is boosted) though the 3.5t will do it without touching the internals(I suspect the 3.7 would as well, but dont know for sure). I tend to find 300HP is more than enough for a car weighing in under 3000lbs(10:1 power to weight ratio) for the street, but some people like to drive monsters around...I prefer OEM reliability for a daily driver myself.
I had taken ms3 as my choice aftermarket engine management option with a factory harness.
I am going to keep a stockish 300hp till I can afford a new corolla or 07-09 Lexus is250
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Old 09-10-15, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wicked93gs View Post
Whether it clears the firewall depends on how far you space the engine off the firewall. Also..the engine weight you quoted was for the turbo version...the non turbo weighs in just a little over 300lbs from what I have read(have yet to hook mine to a fish scale to find out). I guess the question you need to ask first is how much power you are planning to make. The duratec is a capable platform...non direct injected turbo versions(like they used in the Noble M12) make north of 400HP with less displacement than the duratec 35 and 37. In the Ginetta G60 the 3.7l makes 310 HP from the NA 3.7. I believe they run a Haltech engine management system. People routinely make 350HP out of the 3.7 once adding longtubes, x pipe, intake etc.(the usual intake header exhaust(IHE)). If you are shooting for 500HP...either the 3.7 or the 3.5 will get you there(assuming the 3.7 is boosted) though the 3.5t will do it without touching the internals(I suspect the 3.7 would as well, but dont know for sure). I tend to find 300HP is more than enough for a car weighing in under 3000lbs(10:1 power to weight ratio) for the street, but some people like to drive monsters around...I prefer OEM reliability for a daily driver myself.
I had taken ms3 as my choice aftermarket engine management option with a factory harness.
I am going to keep a stockish 300hp till I can afford a new corolla or 07-09 Lexus is250
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Old 09-21-15, 09:44 AM
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3.7L Cyclone with 6R80 6-speed auto

Just so you know....
Ill do a build thread in a little while but for now here's a teaser
Attached Thumbnails Ford 3.7L V6 fc-20150826_181953.jpg   Ford 3.7L V6 fc-20150903_174635.jpg  
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Old 09-21-15, 10:43 AM
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Wow, that looks like it fits even worse than it does in the Miata
Name:  20150517_150659_zpsap66vazm.jpg
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Of course...I did have to lower the steering rack 2.75" for decent fitment in the miata...and its still 2.5" above the hoodline
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Old 09-21-15, 11:22 AM
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Yes Sir!
I have just lowered my subframe a bit so it's a little better.
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Old 09-22-15, 11:45 PM
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93gs,

How's your wiring coming? Have you programmed your ecu yet?
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Old 09-23-15, 10:46 AM
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Not yet...wiring and MS aettings are the easy part....I just now reached the point I can make engine mounts. It was an insane amount of cutting. Even the starter location gave me a headache...had to make a pocket for it to sit in.Name:  20150708_173533_zpszcfm9yud.jpg
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The FC makes for a much easier chasis to work with.
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Old 09-24-15, 09:32 AM
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Wow! That's a ton of work. I just bought some engine mounts from American Muscle and made
pedestals to the subframe.

I also changed the angle of the radiator about 10-15 degrees or so.

In addition I added 3/4" subframe spacers for a little hood clearance.
Cutting out the subframe bolts was absolutely the hardest job of the install thus far.
Attached Thumbnails Ford 3.7L V6 fc-20150819_203314.jpg   Ford 3.7L V6 fc-20150819_203322.jpg   Ford 3.7L V6 fc-20150826_141553.jpg  
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Old 09-26-15, 10:09 AM
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Does MS stand for MegaSquirt???
or are you using the factory ecu?
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Old 09-26-15, 10:41 AM
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Yes MS is for megasquirt, though I am not using anything yet....I dont feel like dealing with the PATS nightmare newer Fords come with so the plan is Megasquirt 3 Pro...or maybe just a fully enabled MS3 with the MS3X card(you need every input and output you can get to run an engine with 4 cam sensors and 4 cam phasers)
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Old 09-26-15, 10:55 AM
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I'm going to use the factory ecu.
I'll let you know how it goes and have details if you go that way.
I'm using the 6-speed 6R80, so it's gotta happen.
So far it's very nice. The engine harness it's one plug to the ecu and one plug interlink to trans, one plug from trans to ecu, and I'm using the factory fuse box for the body harness.
The body harness includes obd2, pedal, shifter, and more.
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Old 09-26-15, 01:03 PM
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There are a lot of modules you need to get past PATS, you need the fusebox, the ECU, the drive by wire pedal assembly, and the cluster, as well as the ignition switch(for the transponder ring) and a key that is matched to the ECU you are using, along with harnesses to connect it all. You probably need the entire emmissions system as well to not throw any codes. I have the 2 engine harnesses, and after looking at all the weight I would add with all those modules...and the fact I cant fit the mustang cluster in the Miata dash right now I am leaning toward MS...but that could change if someone has a nice writeup on working around PATS.
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Old 09-30-15, 09:16 PM
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ECU is on it's way back from HP Tuners!
PATS Deleted!!
I'll keep you updated. There are still some items to finish before I can get close to start up.
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Old 09-30-15, 10:03 PM
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If HP can really delete PATS and the need for all the additional modules, I will rethink using megasquirt myself...I will be interested in seeing the results. Also...it would allow the engine harness to be minimized...because right now its a monster of a harness.
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Old 10-02-15, 08:45 AM
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Glad to see someone actually pushing this build forward. I get my engine next month >.< so excited
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