I can't wait to see what the end product of this engine is in every aspect.

 

a/f doesn't mean much once air charge temp reaches the detonation point of the fuel.
you can detonate an a/f mix with 0 compression by just applying heat.
not that an engine will ever heat the charge to this point without compression
but if an engine is run close to detonation by compression to high, boost
to high in a turbo app. added heat due to pre ignition....(to much advance)
then adding more heat to the intake air will add to the total charge temp.
it all comes back to heat.
I run a turbo 2 stroke snowmobile engine and have it on the edge for pump gas
all is well until heat soak occurs then due to the added heat of the non
intercooled charge air, detonation occurs, slightly higher octane and all is fine.
if I add a little more compression ratio or more boost or more heat (to lean)
then its back to detonation.
matt

 

They moved to a flash page here:

http://www.mazda.com/motorshow/main.html?page=4

 

 

I'm just really interested to see the torque specs off that thing. If it does anywhere near say 200ft.lb of torque I would be a happy person. Funny thing, I think that today was the first day that I actually pulled up the specs off the renesis engine:

232hp
159 ft/lb

Actual Dyno have been floating around:

175whp
125 ft/lb

Those figures are actually lower than what I had expected. And I'm actually shooting for close to those figures with my ITB 12a. Considering last time I went to the dyno with my super rich running Holley, stock spark and could probably play with timing a bit more too I netted:

147.3whp
124.2ft/lb

Considering that I'm now using a side draft ITB setup (longer runners), and the second gen ignition, I should be seeing gains of maybe 3/4 ft-lb of torque, and I'm hoping that I would get around 170ish whp. Might be too optimistic but I think its doable. I should have no fear trying to take one on if you consider my weight reduction.

But If I start seeing something like 175 fl-lb of torque at the wheels with this new engine I would be really happy to see that.

 

3 oil metering nozzles per housing!

 

The USDM renesis is detuned the JDM one makes about 20 more hp. You can thank our emission standards for that. BTW Doesn't direct injection lower the temp of the rotor surface, as the gas reaches the surface at a relatively cool temp?

 

everyone is saying its a 4port but it looks like 2 ports to me with a bridge....maybe someone can explain why there's two port like openings on the rear plate...one is the round port and the other is right above that... maybe its an optical illusion because of all that shine & chrome or maybe jerking off is finally starting to take a toll on my eyes...

 

It might actually be a 6 port, because if you look at the shot that shows you the intake ports, look at the rear plate, you see 2 holes ontop of each other, If the top one isn't another intake port, what would it be?

 

It could certainly be a bridge, with direct injection it could probably make a PP emissions compliant. There is no fuel lost to port overlap, but then would a renesis engine have any port overlap even with a bridge port.

 

I'm gonna drop in to clear up any engineering issues, specifically heat transfer:

1. Conduction is slow to negligible through the edge of a plate: long distance to travel, narrow path.

2. Conduction is fast to nigh-perfect through the surface of a plate: short distance to travel, very wide path.

The aluminum housing will not make any difference on cooling/heating issues. From #1: Exhaust gas will not heat up the intake air significantly, even with aluminum. From #2: The inner housing, outer housing and coolant are all the same temperature, even with iron housings.

Okay, removing the engineering hat now.

The 3rd omp injector implies improved internal lubrication for high rpm operation. Perhaps they're shooting for a higher redline, compensating for the fact that larger engines tend to have a lower redline, or they're simply bumping the engine longevity up another notch.

Dynos for the Renesis range from 170wHP (~200bHP) to 200wHP (~235bHP), often around 190 (~225bHP). Just like a piston engine, it varies quite a bit based on how well it's broken in. The Renesis gets its power from all the standard bolt-on and engine upgrades that anybody can do to a 13B, plus side exhaust ports to improve emissions and some weight reduction.

The "bridge ports" look like reflections of the regular ports to me. I think I see 2 intake ports and 1 exhaust port, for a 6 port.

280+HP seems reasonable using the Renesis' power to displacement ratio and ignoring all else. The weight reduction mentioned in the article compensates for the extra displacement. After cutting over 50lbs from the 13B to the Renesis, adding it back on would be unacceptable for a super handling car <cough> <cough>. Ahem, excuse me.

 

Theres another thread in the "general auto" subforum with the same stuff, but different pictures.
https://www.rx7club.com/automotive-news-lounge-22/16x-700269/

In that thread there are pictures of a digital model broken apart, and the "irons" (gonna have to stop using that name for them) look like they arent bridged after all, so i guess its just a reflection. Oh well, i got excited.

Also, it looks like there are port injectors as well as the direct injectors, which is definitely a good thing. This'll give a more homogenous charge, especially at high RPM or high load for more power than direct injection could probably provide. Plus, if an injector sprays in the port, it can cool the air entering the chamber, making it more dense and packing more in.

It seems to be a 6-port intake. One port in the center plate and two in each of the end plates, so 3 intakes per rotor, with a single exhaust per rotor.

 

I wonder actually since it isn't a 6 port, if the top port on the side would act like aux ports but the everything would be on the intake. As in having a butterfly open in there like secondaries open on a carb.

 

Ok, I understand, thanks for the info. However, I think the post that I responded to was implying that a richer mixture was more prone to detonation. At least that's how I took it.

 

Holy crap, they put the o-ring grooves back in the rotor housings too! Did they do this on the renesis (13B MSP)? That means no more worries of eroded coolant seal walls.

 

Everything I've heard from friends and what not is that you run richer to keep temps lower, something about fuel cooling down the intake charge? Maybe not that second part, but pretty sure when running high boost that you want to run rich to be safe.

 

i didnt say that adding more fuel wouldnt = cooler egt's
more fuel to air will = cooler fire and less heating of the internal surfaces.
if mazda is after mpg in a new engine last thing you want to do is run
more fuel to run cooler

 

Right, let me clarify what I was trying to say.

A LEAN MIXTURE IS MORE PRONE TO DETONATION. Most people know this just from being around car dorks.

What you've said is right.

The post I originally responded to was assuming that since the exhaust and intake ports are both side ports that they could both become extremely hot because of the exhaust gasses heating the entire plate. It was said that this would cause detonation issues because of the heated A/F mixture. This assumption has been debunked, it doesn't get that hot. It would happen in the 13B-MSP if it were an issue, but these engines are water-cooled and as someone said, that area has poor heat conduction.

I mis-read this as saying a rich mixture would detonate.

 

Then why are modern LS V8's still around 6 liters?

 

Too bad they don't do like GM and sell a crate 16c with mounting options to fit any fb,fc,fd or rx8.

 

Asterisk:

How about approaching the problem from a different angle?

At best, we recover 30% of the power made by an engine if we simply take the power from the e-shaft.

If we turbocompounded the engine, we could recover a much higher percentage of the total power produced by the engine. How about 60%? Sound good?

Buzz :-)

 

I just got chills from looking at the pics, is that normal?

 

It also means you could use 12A or GSL-SE Irons and get a 1.6L stack with -SE 6-port induction that's carb-friendly and conventional exhaust. You'd have to essientially P-port the housing for exhaust, but that's all been done before. FBs and old-schoolers would do well with this.

 

Wrongo.

Longer stroke of 16x means you can't do that. Freakin noob.

 

No bridge. That's a reflection.

If you look at the computer generated pictures that were on their display, you can see a 6 port. However the actual housing on the display is a 4 port. Compare it to side shots of a Renesis 4 and 6 port engine.