From what I've read that you've posted, no offence (and I really don't mean to offend you), but you don't :O

I really encourage you to forget everything they 'taught' you, and read it for yourself, in context, not line for line, but book for book.

 

The only post in this thread that I have made related to the bible is "in the end you are the only one responsible for your beliefs, the -fact- is that you chose this religion and this version of the bible and are therefore responsible for what it preaches. Its not enough to say, "The WORD OF GOD SAYS" because there are literally hundreds of interpretations of those same words."

My argument has and will always be with the people who claim to follow the bible, the bible itself I couldn't care less about.

 

for reference i have read the old and new testaments, most of the gospels, a lot of the other religious writings including the kaballah and the writings of rashi and other well respected religious commentators. I have also read the cannons of other world religions including the book of latter day saints, the quran, the book of buddha, and have formed my opinions thusly

i couldnt quote you out of the bible verse by verse because as you said i read them as books not to glean witty quips to post on an internet board. i am not discounting anyone's belief system you are all free to believe to whatever degree of commitment in any god or being you choose and their progeny as you see fit

i have determined through life events and self education that my brand of religion (which i prefer to call BPU judaism...with turbo upgrade) suits me just fine.

i am a jew, always will be, do not consider the new testament to be part of my holy canon and choose to follow jewish tradition.

the only thing that EVER really bugs me about someone who is "more religious" than myself is them trying to impose their belief structure or interpretations thereof on me.

i respect jason for his beliefs and a healthy debate is always welcome and i know taht if i called jason on his cellphone we could have an intelligent conversation that would never really turn to anything about how i'm hellbound for not being one of the flock

its people that choose to separate themselves and make themselves on a pedestal by stating that their beliefs are right and no one elses are that give good upstanding sould like jason a bad name

jason chooses to believe with all his heart and soul in what he believes him and i applaud him for that, even though his belief structure does not match mine. but imposing one's beliefs on someone else is just low and repugnant and i think all of you sane well minded individuals would agree with me

if i want to drink or smoke or fornicate ... thats my choice and is not for anyone to look down on me in a public fashion or god forbid berate me directly for it ... personal choices until they effect others are just that personal choices and should not be the concern of anyone but the person making them

 

The Bible is much more than a collection of stories. It is not simply a book of prophesies, a moral code, a history bok, or a science text either, although it contains all those things. It is referred to as the word of God, but technically it is a witness to the word of God. Therefore we should not worship the Bible, but read, study, and learn from it.
Absolutely not, and if you think about it some more, you might reconsider. As I said before, the notion that there is only one correct interpretation for every piece of scripture, for every situation for all time, is actually rather modern idea.

For example, good arguments have been made on either side--and using word-for-word translations--regarding homosexuality. Today many of our biblical interpretations differ vastly from those of the past. It might be interesting to compare the debates over the biblical position on sexuality to the debate over slavery 150 years ago. The Bible sanctioned slavery, and nowhere attacked it as unjust. Are we prepared to argue today that slavery is biblically justified? When the debate over slavery was raging, the Bible seemed to be clearly on the slaveholders' side. Abolitionists were hard pressed to justify their opposition to slavery on biblical grounds. Yet today, if you were to ask whether the Bible sanctions slavery, virtually everyone would agree that it does not.

Most Christians regard certain rules, especially in the Old Testament, as no longer binding. Other things we regard as binding, including legislation in the Old Testament that is not mentioned at all in the New. What is the principle of selection here?

Conversely the Bible permitted behaviors that we today condemn: prostitution, polygamy, sex with slaves, concubinage, treatment of women as property, very early marriage (for the girl, age 11-13), and levirate marriage (when a married man died childless, his widow was to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bore him a male heir). Jesus mentioned levirate marriage without criticism (Mark 12:18-27). However, most if not all Christians disobey this unambiguous commandment of Scripture. Why is this law ignored, while others (including the one supposedly against homosexual behavior) are preserved?

The law of Moses allowed for divorce (Deut. 24:1-4); Jesus categorically forbids it (Mark 10:1-12; Matt. 19:9). Yet many Christians, in clear violation of a command of Jesus, have been divorced. Why, then, do some of these very people consider themselves eligible for baptism, church membership, communion, and ordination, but not homosexuals? What makes the one so much greater a sin than the other, especially considering the fact that Jesus never even mentioned homosexuality but explicitly condemned divorce?

I mentioned gluttony earlier--somewhat in jest--but my question remains how do churches decide which sins (assuming it is a sin) should be the focus of their crusades? What about adultery, which is condemned very strongly in the Bible--much more so than homosexuality. Adultery also arguably causes greater harm to society, yet is virtually ignored by many of those same churches which rail against homosexuals as if they were the root of all evil.

Ultimately, how does anyone know he or she is correctly interpreting God's word for us today? we should humbly admit our limitations, and realize our interpretations could be wrong about many of the details. What is utterly clear is that we are commanded to love God and to love one another. The Bible contains the principles of its own correction, and we should not worship the Bible, but use it in the worship of God.

 

cosmicbang, i like the way you argue your points. im not saying that i agree with all of them, but i respect your technique. this is all very healthy discussion, i just hope you all save some for the bbq.

Roan

 

I agree, very impressive cosmicbang.

Anyway, I'm unsubscribing from this thread, but can someone explain to me if "Christian Brothers" is a specific type of christianity or is it just all christians... I've been wondering since the thread started.

 

i believe he was talking to all christians

 

Very good point cosmicbang!

I just love this topic.. I just read the last 5 pages and love the random quotes from the bible.

I have few questions to ask to those who believe words in the bible to heart.
So, can you think back and remember when you first believed in GOD and Jesus??
Do you remember who might of told you about GOD??
Or Do you remember when you acturally heard the term GOD and fully understood it??
Do you remember your first word you said??


The thing is that, we all learn things from others surrounding us. We went to school and learned about 1+1=2 and that the earth is round (which at some point in the western culture, some believed it was flat, how stupid were they?)
We learn things from our parents in the beginning and never really questioned their logic. Why did we not question them?? Maybe we trust them too much? or Maybe we knew they knew the answer (I'm talking about when we were young). But as we got older, we started to listen to people called "teachers". They told us about math, science, history, and other crap and we got graded for it. Pretty much, I listen to them and never really questioned? Now, I think back and some of the **** I learned were crap! I also look back and some of the teachers I had weren't even qualified and can't believe I've acturally listened to them..

Point is, we need to question why we believe what we believe and how we learned about what we believe. We all learn things from others. Either someone writes it on a piece of paper and us reading it or someone tells us in person. Ultimately, you have to gather all the info and make the decision yourself. Far as religion, to be absolute that your religion is the one for you, you must learn about other religions. Without knowing the other religions is like some moron saying, "My 4 cylinder Civic with the catback is the BEST because its the fastest car in the world!!". Because they never drove anything else or seen any other cars. And we all know ROTARIES are the BEST!

 

honestly the most intelligent thing in this entire thread

points well argued for each side but this is true honesty

that is why i read all the books i did so i could honestly form an opinion in an informed fashion and determine that the way i was raised, religiously, that is, was for me.

maybe it was learning from my parents or the comfort factor of knowing things about judaism already but i feel most comfortable in that environment. Even after reading all the other holy books and talking to ministers, and religious leaders from a bunch of other religions i am still most comfortable where i started out.

 

This gets better and better

My form of religion has basically become "I talk to God when I feel like it and I don't need to show up at a Church to prove it"

Mainly because if I walked into a Church, they'd need to call the Fire Department because it would burn down

 

i think i said something similar earlier in this thread

religion and your beliefs ahve nothing to do with a building or a book... if you choose to believe that strongly in the bible and its teachings ... more power to you ... one of the greatest gifts "god" gave humans is free will... even those who profane religion (christianity, judaism, islam, whatever you want) have to thank "god" for their ability to choose to act that way

 

Believe in GOD is a personal thing. At the end its you and the BIG GUY (or GAL, or THING) and not about you and the church or people around you.

What I hate about SOME christians are that they like to put thing front of you and push thing on you. Look at this thread!

Church is a business. Like any other business, more people they get, better it is. Its true! If churches are created to help the people, they wouldn't be using the money to make it bigger and bigger. They would use that money to go feed homeless.

How many dressed up gents and ladies in church would sit next to a smelly homeless guy. Most would sit away, make comments, and even kick them out. Going to church means nothing.. Its just to satisfy ones need to feel they are good because they goto church. If you truely want to live the lifestyle of JESUS, Do what he did, Don't half ***, Go dedicate your life to help those who needs help.. THIS help doesn't mean spiritual help, but REAL life, social, fiancial help.

 

preach on brutha...


ironic choice of compliments eh?

 

You've been to the wrong churches then Ask me about what I've seen someday and I'll tell ya

I'm not going to respond to a lot of what is posted here because it goes well beyond the scope of what I've really got the energy to discuss online. I think a BBQ would be an exelent place to discourse on such topics. What say all you??

 

Maybe we should preach to each other?

 

HAha.. maybe I did goto multiple wrong churches and seen too many others.. But make sure you go and find out about your church and its leaders.

General population do not know the history of their minister (religious leader) whom they listen to every week, and whom they think of as their spiritual leaders. Its like your doctor..., you go, listen, get the prescription and go home. But you have no clue if they barely passed their boards or how they did in medical school..When you think about religion, its "THE" most important thing in the world. Millions of people have died over their religion.. If your religious leader is supposed to guide you, make sure you know who they are.. They not only need to know all the available religions but also experienced in life. What gets me is that some college reject who never been outside of the country nor seen any other culture is guiding hundreds of people. Better yet, those with some psychological issues or social problems.. Go talk to your leaders on one on one basis..

I know there are exceptions to the norm.. and maybe your church members and leaders are exception to what I've seen.. but its a human nature. We will make comments to things we see abnormal and unusual. If my example earlier were to happen, I bet you someone in your church will do exactly i've said...

 

Well, the things is that non believers usually just let it pass.
I other hand preach back and see how much of a believer they are.
I either make them realize the bullshit or make them into a stronger believer. Either case, its better that they question and think about the most important thing in their life... GOD!

 

hey guys that were following this thread, some of the guys from the supraforums have an online bible study going. yesterday was the second weekly meeting and it was great. basically its a group of young men 21-30~ discussing christianity and the struggles we face as young single men. every week there are readings assigned for the following week to be discussed. im sure some of you would like to participate.

its done in an AIM chatroom, tuesday nights at 10pm eastern 7 pacific. if any of you are interested IM Jaguarz MKIII anytime between now and next tuesday telling him you want an invite to the meeting. or post in the thread on supraforims with your AIM screen name here http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...11#post3556611

lastly, heres a a transcript of this past tuesdays meeting so u guys can see what its like.
http://www.geocities.com/roliks2002/

hope to see some of you guys there next week! the reading for next week is John 3: A conversation with Jesus

 

Cool.... Real cool dude!!!