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Any Christian Brothers And Sisters Want To Meet In Maryland For A Cookout

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Old 08-15-05, 02:19 PM
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Not to mention intolerance and persecution in the name of politics and nationalism... Personally I believe that all the different splinter religions based on Judaism can be explained by political/monetary motivations.
Old 08-15-05, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cosmicbang
Lighten up, it was a play on words, given the topic of an automobile-themed barbecue attended by Christians.

auto + christians + cookout = auto da fé

I never mentioned Catholics, but since you bring it up... Intolerance and persecution, including death penalties for heresy, is not unique to Catholics. Martin Luther himself proscribed putting "heretics" to death. Melanchthon, Zwingli, Knox, Calvin, and other Protestant leaders also advocated death for heretics. Thousands of Catholics, Jews, Anabaptists, and other Protestant "heretics" have been persecuted, imprisoned, tortured and put to death by Protestants in the name of religion.
You did, perhaps unintentionally; it's a catholic picture :p

Also, all of the people you have named (the ones I recognize at least) were aphiliated with the Catholic church or it's offspring.

EDIT: I feel it nessisary to say, it's true that such persecutions are not limited only to Catholics, as you say. But indeed, it is human nature.

Originally Posted by jayk
Not to mention intolerance and persecution in the name of politics and nationalism... Personally I believe that all the different splinter religions based on Judaism can be explained by political/monetary motivations.
I would gladly debate that topic. But not here :p

Last edited by Tofuball; 08-15-05 at 02:43 PM.
Old 08-15-05, 02:50 PM
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Catholics are the original Christians, so yes, all of the mentioned non-catholic Christians are offspring of the Catholic church... I don't think you can really separate them in this regard since all Christians have been involved in some level of persecution at some time or another. And this includes christian persecution of other christians.

I mean that on a group level, not to say that anybody on this board that believes in one religion or the other is personally guilty of persectuion.
Old 08-15-05, 02:53 PM
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Err, Catholic church started in 313AD my friend They aint original anything :p

I encourage you to read the link I posted earlier. Chock full of good info. (though a little biased in some places, it is still very accurate)
Old 08-15-05, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tofuball
Also, all of the people you have named (the ones I recognize at least) were aphiliated with the Catholic church or it's offspring.
What are you trying to say? Those are Protestants.
Old 08-15-05, 03:11 PM
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Interesting, my knowledge of religion is almost entirely from catholic school which doesn't teach much of what led up to catholicism... So what other current factions of christianity existed before 313? The only one mentioned by name on that page is the Baptists. Protestants and all that came over a thousand years after.
Old 08-15-05, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jayk
Interesting, my knowledge of religion is almost entirely from catholic school which doesn't teach much of what led up to catholicism... So what other current factions of christianity existed before 313? The only one mentioned by name on that page is the Baptists. Protestants and all that came over a thousand years after.
Maybe he is a Coptic Christian

Otherwise, I have no idea what his point is. The Council of Jerusalem established Christianity around 50 A.D. If he says 313 A.D. is the founding of the Catholic Church (of course distinguishing "Catholic" from "Roman Catholic"), then any church which subsequently split would be an "offshoot." That includes just about all of them in one way or another.

Churches which subscribe to the doctrine of apostolic succession (Roman Catholic, Old Catholic, Independent Catholic, Anglican, Assyrian, Orthodox, Nestorian, Moravian, and Lutheran-sort of) trace their bishops back to the apostles in the time of Christ.

Last edited by cosmicbang; 08-15-05 at 04:24 PM.
Old 08-15-05, 04:55 PM
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There were the baptists, which kind of surprises me because I always thought the american baptist factions of christianity were an offshoot of the post-catholic movements.

In any case, I just got my power fc+commander off ebay and I can't wait to get to my rx-7 and install it... Just to bring this back to the most important thing, which is worshipping a false god that takes all of my money
Old 08-15-05, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jayk
There were the baptists, which kind of surprises me because I always thought the american baptist factions of christianity were an offshoot of the post-catholic movements.

In any case, I just got my power fc+commander off ebay and I can't wait to get to my rx-7 and install it... Just to bring this back to the most important thing, which is worshipping a false god that takes all of my money
Correct. The Baptist church formed in the early 1600's, with a couple different groups. The first was founded by John Smyth, a former Anglican priest, in 1609. The American Baptists originally came from those groups in England and the Netherlands.
Old 08-15-05, 11:03 PM
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Again, for the purpose of my debate, I encourage the reading of the following document on the above topics: http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm

Originally Posted by cosmicbang
Maybe he is a Coptic Christian
Are you reffering to me? I'm a Jew. I don't have any denomination.
Old 08-16-05, 01:21 AM
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Alot of semi-modern religions claim a basis in historic religions, there's a whole irish faith called brewing that people like sinead o'conner and shane macgowan believe in called Jah which has a similar chart tracing themselves back to the early days of Jesus. Its hard to tell what is really true or not when it all might have happened 2000 years ago, or may not have happened at all...
Old 08-16-05, 01:26 AM
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Not that I'm calling the Baptists a semi-religion, I'm just saying based on a single chart I don't actually know that the Baptists formed in the 1600's are actually based on the ana-baptists from earlier, especially when the 1600's saw so much anti-catholic movement its hard to tell what is politically motivated vs. actually religion.
Old 08-16-05, 07:21 AM
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And thats what this COOKOUT is going to be about, talking about GOD/JESUS and some debate about it. We allso talk about the rx7 as well, i would love to do this before oct. so let me know guys
Old 08-16-05, 08:19 AM
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Agreed. I'm in. Set a time and place man
Old 08-16-05, 09:17 AM
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Not sure on where this would be at, but count me in, as long as all sides are considered even in these talks/debates. I'm willing to listen, absorb, and have an intellectual chat, as long as the same goes for all sides
Old 08-16-05, 10:02 AM
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Jason I am still working on sunday afternoon as a possible day. I will know by tomorrow. Should I just do hamburgers and hotdogs soda's or order up some pizzas?
Old 08-16-05, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tofuball
Again, for the purpose of my debate, I encourage the reading of the following document on the above topics: http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm
The views of J.M. Carroll found on that web site are not held by the majority of Baptists and no serious scholars of church history would give them credence. Among numerous errors, omissions and assumptions, he ignores the lack of demostrable continuity with earlier congregations, and the statements of earlier baptists who rejected that notion. The Baptists may have been influenced by the Anabaptists (themselves largely a reformationist movement), but they are not direct descendants like the Amish and Mennonites. (The term "anabaptist" simply means rebaptizer, and can be used to describe many groups.) In Carroll's defence, he wrote at a time when his views may have been helpful. Chris Traffanstedt has written a more objective history, found here: http://www.reformedreader.org/history/pbh.htm
Old 08-16-05, 10:22 AM
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While the discussion sounds interesting, a cookout without beer is like a hotdog bun without the hotdog to me... Just my personal opinion, have a good cookout!
Old 08-16-05, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jayk
Alot of semi-modern religions claim a basis in historic religions, there's a whole irish faith called brewing that people like sinead o'conner and shane macgowan believe in called Jah which has a similar chart tracing themselves back to the early days of Jesus. Its hard to tell what is really true or not when it all might have happened 2000 years ago, or may not have happened at all...
Skinhead O'Connor, that's a blast from the past by itself. Glad to hear she is Christian.

The Church of England (the Ecclesia Anglicana - or the English Church) can be traced directly to the early Christian era. Missionaries arrived in the first century, and by 312 A.D. Britons were largely Christianized. The Celtic Christian churches became part of the Anglican Church. It was not until the Synod of Whitby in 664 A.D., that the English acknowledged the authority of Rome. The Anglican church is the result of a combination of three streams of Christianity: the Roman tradition of St Augustine (600 A.D.) and his successors, the remnants of the old Romano-British church, and the Celtic tradition coming down from Scotland and associated with people like St Aidan and St Cuthbert.
Old 08-16-05, 10:52 AM
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Used to be christian, she swore it off publicly when she tore up a picture of the Pope on Letterman or some other show. Now she thinks she's Rastafarian, http://www.anycities.com/jahtruth/.

Last edited by jayk; 08-16-05 at 11:03 AM.
Old 08-16-05, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bukwild
Jason I am still working on sunday afternoon as a possible day. I will know by tomorrow. Should I just do hamburgers and hotdogs soda's or order up some pizzas?

That would be a different get-together, right? :p Thats the "We are putting your massive turbo in" day, right? :p
Old 08-16-05, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jayk
Used to be christian, she swore it off publicly when she tore up a picture of the Pope on Letterman or some other show. Now she thinks she's Rastafarian, http://www.anycities.com/jahtruth/.
Thanks that is really entertaining, especially this part:
George Lucas quite naturally believes that he wrote "Starwars", when, in reality, he was told telepathically what to write in the original first three Episodes (4-6), by the very "Force" to which the films refer, and was "forced" to make only episodes 4-6, first, as a very important step in the preparation of mankind for the long-awaited TRUTH, about the real reasons for human life on Earth ("what on earth am I doing here?"), the meaning of life and its purpose, contained in "The Way home or face The Fire", from which episodes 1-3 should have been made, as I did my best, frequently, to tell him.

Unfortunately George Lucas has exercised his "Free-will"; ignored me and made Episode 1 - "The Phantom Menace"; with arrogant actors who publicly ridicule the real message and the real fans, which undermines the original theme and Divine Message; contradicts it and is mere fiction (lies), telepathically fed to him by the Dark-side force (Satan), to try to confuse everyone and undo the good (God's) message contained in the earlier three films (Episodes 4-6). This is Satan's standard-practice and very predictable. He has done it with the Old Testament; New Testament and Koran and the three major religions who claim to be based on them.
This religion has a fascination with movies. Here is what it says about Close Encounters of the Third Kind:
Over the last forty years there have been numerous sightings of small U.F.O.s (scout-ships) above, and around the vicinity of, Gibraltar, to let the inhabitants know that they exist. The occupants of these ships have also come to check out the Rock, ready for when the "Mother-ship" (the New Jerusalem) arrives, as written in the Bible and Koranic Prophecy and as depicted in the famous Steven Spielberg film, called 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind'.

The Ruler of the Universe, Whom the primitive people here on Earth call God, during that same forty year period, picked a young boy and slowly and carefully trained him, without his being aware of it, to be the best film-maker on Earth.

Then, when the boy had become a man and had completed the necessary training and was ready for the task, The Ruler of the Universe gave him the plot for a film that He Himself wanted to be made for Him and He did it, by telepathy, so that the film-maker would be unaware of what was happening to him and would think that the story and film-plot had both come from his own imagination.
But who knows? Maybe he is right.
Old 08-16-05, 12:20 PM
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Thats the beauty of religion, it doesn't really matter if he's right as long as people have faith and believe him. I don't find some of his claims much more outlandish than a virgin giving birth to a man that can walk on water and turn bread and water into fish and wine. Or for that matter a man that can part the red sea.
Old 08-16-05, 01:10 PM
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"While the discussion sounds interesting, a cookout without beer is like a hotdog bun without the hotdog to me... Just my personal opinion, have a good cookout!"

I don't do anything without beer and Miller Lite finally figured that out and developed the 30 pack. So a cube will be on site in the fridge at the shop.

"That would be a different get-together, right? :p Thats the "We are putting your massive turbo in" day, right? :p"

We can still put on the massive turbo and if you guys want to school each other on your religious beliefs at the same time I am cool with that. I am trying to get the go ahead for the shop tonight.
Old 08-16-05, 08:35 PM
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Tofu is soso so right this is what would go on at the BBQ. Im sure there are alot on here that would like to know something about CHRIST. I find that the folks that talk so bad about GOD/JESUS they are guilty of something, that there into and know that its wrong


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