jayk

In the end you are the only one responsible for your beliefs, the -fact- is that you chose this religion and this version of the bible and are therefore responsible for what it preaches. Its not enough to say, "The WORD OF GOD SAYS" because there are literally hundreds of interpretations of those same words.

And for the record, I don't believe in GOD, JESUS, or the VIRGIN MARY, any more than I do Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. I think religion should be used to form a bond with ancestors and descendents and provide a cultural background for people who would otherwise feel lost in the world. I don't believe anybody ever intended that the words written in books over 2000 years ago would be taken literally today. Much like the constitution which is constantly being amended and reinterpreted to suit modern needs.

falnfenix

*applause* agreed completely.

krautrocket

so god doesnt love me ?

would explain a lot


my faith in a more powerful "presence" has NOTHING to do with my calling to one of umpteenbilliongagillion organized religions...

i do believe there is something more than science holding our world together, but to which doctrine does this power belong .... NONE...

the bible is a work of semi-fiction written BY man FOR man, using this book against someone is close minded and crude

i am not downplaying your beliefs just stating that you saying anyone is less WORTHY or DESERVING because they/he/she/it/etc doesnt hear "god's" call is awfully shallow and profane in and of itself

Tofuball

Well, actually, our God is the end all and be all. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He was not crafted by human hands.

It's rather obvious that the great majority of the people arguing against the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob don't even really understand what they are talking about; mainly because they havent read the Word He gave to us.

Maybe snippets of verses here and there?

Don't trust what other people tell you about God, even other "Christians" for the most part.

Learn it for yourself, reading HIS WORDS that he has given to us! Ask God to show Himself to you, and He will!

Should you want to argue with us, first read that book, then argue with us.

Read that book, If at least for historical or cultural reference, or just to put 'us christians' in our place.

Where are these misinterpritations you claim?
Where are these flaws in the Word of God you all clammor about?


All I've heard from you are excuses! Things you have observed of mere men!

You hypocrites! Claiming to be so open minded while refusing to even consider the 'opposing side!'

Your own questions would have been answered should you have read the Word that God has given to us.

A man has died, given his life to you, and you refuse the gift! You would not even listen to his words or learn of the circumstances!

I was once in the world, as you are. I once shared your beleifs. I once was blind, but now I see.

I beg of all of you who do not know, to read and learn. If you want to debate with us, do the homework and read that book. Because it is rather blatantly obvious that many of you havent. Who argues a point they don't even know the basic background of?

jayk

If I actually believed it was the word of god, maybe I'd read it. The two of you saying that it is in capital letters does not make it true.

I can guarantee that in 5000 years people will look back on our definition of religion and find it as entertaining as we consider greek mythology (sorry if i've offended anybodies deities). Of course nothing I can say will convince you of that, nor can anything you say convince me that the bible is more than a collection of stories written by men for their own purposes.

cosmicbang

I believe in God and in the Bible. You just seem to read it differently from the way I and others do. Similar to the alcohol issue. The idea that there is only one correct way to read or interpret scripture is a rather modern idea.

Verses from Leviticus were used not many years ago to justify slavery! Leviticus also forbids eating shellfish, and wearing garments made of mixed fibres.

As Archbishop Carnley (Primate of Australia) said: "The exact meaning to be read from these texts and whether they can rightly be made to provide a neat pre-packaged answer to our contemporary questions is what is at issue. Anybody brave enough to claim to know the inner mind of God on the basis of a personal claim to be privy to the only conceivable interpretation of some biblical texts is guilty of self-delusion."

In God's entire infinite universe, how important is this really? IMHO, there are far more important things to be concerned about.

Tofuball

1 Corinthians 14:38

"But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant."

jayk

I fully agree.

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

This has become quite the entertaining thread. I haven't been this amused since I finished up 12 years of Catholic school (and the obligatory church sessions thrice weekly).

Maybe the admins will create a 'Religion discussion' section right next to the 'other engine conversions' area of the forum now

cosmicbang

Good idea. Since the bible allows polygamy, are we allowed to have a hybrid vehicle with a rotary AND a V-8 in the same car?

krautrocket

\


were you talking to me ?

i hope not because i do not disagree or profane any of your ideas ...

i just do not happen to believe in the holy trinity as you do

yes OUR god is the same , the god of abraham, i just do not choose to revere or respect him by spending time in a synagogue... being of a religion does not have anything to do with what your physical manifestation of that is

even my rabbi from when i was young told us, being jewish does not have ANYTHING to do with attending synagogue, eating kosher foods, wearing a yarmulke its what you believe and feel in your heart and mind

i choose not to accept the construct of organized religion as the earthly manifestation of god's word and choose to live my life the best i see fit, and that includes not downplaying anyone's beliefs

but anyone's uninformed opinion of me based on my choice to not accept the new testament as part of my bible. i dont agree with that. I am Corey, not THAT JEW (well some of my friends call me the pillsbury jew-boy but thats joking and thats fine)

krautrocket

joey...when ARE we getting that golf cart

Tofuball

I wasn't talking about you, but OK :p I agree with a lot of what you said, and so does the bible.

I could easily preach the validity of the new testiment using only the old, I'd be glad to show you what I mean sometime. The book of Matthew and the book of Hebrews are new testiment books that help tie them all together as well. The Messiah and what to look for in him has been mentioned many times, again and again, most noteably in the prophesies of Isaiah, Jerimiah, and the Psalms. (All Old Testiment)
I encourage you to read, for example, Isaiah 53.


And about living your life as you see fit (as I once did):

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.

Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil...."

- Proverbs 3:5-7

krautrocket

we're just waiting for different things i guess...

DarkAngelKamui

falnfenix

i just spat water on my monitor. that's hilarious.

krautrocket

thats hilarious...

he's gonna kill you ... hahaha

DarkAngelKamui

I'd hope not...

Seeing how he's all forgiving, i'd at least hope he'd have some humor bundled into that holy package somewhere...

jayk

Of course he has humour, why else would he have "designed" monkeys? In all seriousness, if god does exist, there is just no way he/she is as narrow-minded and petty as all of his followers believe.

If the vast majority of people are capable of seeing past homosexuality wouldn't an all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-forgiving supreme being also be capable?

And would an all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-forgiving supreme being be so petty as to require that the little humans build pointless churches, synagogues, and mosques to worship him/her?

In my opinion, the only thing that could possibly be of enough importance for god to notice in our day-to-day lives, is the quality of the life we lead and the way we interact with other people.

krautrocket

:applause:

Tofuball

You'd know, if you actually READ the bible you're preaching against, that it DOESN'T require us to biuld these little houses of worship you refer to. And you'd know God sees past homosexuality and the like, FAR past it.

falnfenix

the problem is a vast majority DON'T read what they are trying to talk about...and those are generally the most vocal. it's people like that who keep people like me from wanting to be around christians in general. sure there are the occasional few - you, for example - who are pretty cool about everything...but most aren't.

jayk

Did I ever mention the bible? The bible is just a book with a collection of stories, it only takes on meaning when people pick it up and use it for their own purposes. My argument is only with the followers of the various religions "if god does exist, there is just no way he/she is as narrow-minded and petty as all of his followers believe". Probably shouldn't have claimed "all of his followers" but you get my point. I'm in no way claiming that all religion is bad or that nobody should be religious, but I do believe that the vast majority of people use religion for the wrong purposes. Which brings me back to the original reason I posted in this thread, which was the idea of an event that excluded people based on their religious beliefs.

Tofuball

How would you know that without reading it? The bible is a collection of stories (did you learn that from this thread?), but theres more then just stories. Theres letters to churches, phrophiseis (I cant spell, sorry :p), songs, psalms, and proverbs (among other things).

The words God speeks are recorded in some of these books. It is very hard to misinterpret, unless you are reading some totally wacky (read: wrong) translation. (And even then, most of the translations aren't really THAT different from eachother . . . as long as you have a word-for-word translation and not a paraphrase or line-for-line translation.)


That is why I encourage you again, to read it for yourself, whether or not you belive it was inspired from heaven. If at least for the historical value, or the ability to point out all these 'contradictions.'

Hey, thanks for the compliment

I do agree with you, it's a pretty major issue when somone just goes to "church" and listens to a few words said by a "preist" and then does thier little ritual and dance and then goes home to their rather sinful life, preaching at others like they've got their stuff together, thinking they're cool with God.

For those, there is what Jesus said in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 7, verses 3-5:

"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

jayk

I was raised catholic (mother is roman and father is greek orthodox) and have spent plenty of time reading various parts of the bible, I've spent even more time sitting through masses and sermons listening to priests interpret the bible. I certainly haven't read every word of the bible, but I'm familiar enough with it to understand what it is about. From my own experience with the bible I believe it is a collection of stories/letters/etc written by humans trying their best to understand, explain, and record their own existence.