Buddy everything i posted up i have personally done! I havent read through this thread and frankly im glad i did not..Just for the fact that your an imature ***. And just soo you know its aleady too late you have already pissed off half the people who actually know something about these car's like myself and other's who took the time to read this worthless thread!
Maybe you should search and you would find there has been threads like this in the past newb! Calling senior members here names and insulting them is foolish if you wish to talk tech...hmm you talk **** instead.

Lol and yeah newb wires and plugs are sure going to cut some serious weight!

Let the flames begin

 

hey, Fuckbag, I don't give a **** about what the **** you've done with your meaningless life. "Senior member"? Just because you've been on this forum longer than I does not mean that you are smarter you asshat. I actually went to ******* school for this **** and have worked on cars since i was 14 or so. I'd say i know quite a bit having passed 4 ASE exams, Fucknut. Before you go around calling people "newbs" get some ******* common sense you regurgitated *** bubble. Are you a ******* downs kid or something? Yes, this may have been posted in other posts, but not all posted together, nor is there anything about trying to reach 200 on a stock port N/A. Now, go **** Barney some more while we have a discussion about technical things, wouldn't want your brain to hurt from all the "smart people" things. Go run along now little boy.

Yeah dumbass, because there isn't about 50+ lbs. of unused ******* wiring. Dip ****.

 

Ok i will retract my last statement... You first stated you needed idea's to make power on an NA so people posted useful info!

Then it changes into a NA that has to be smog legal without header and make 200rwhp?

Say we have a Na with a custom made CAI and a nice cat back. Now let's add to that and say that we have a perfect port matched intake system with the extra TB plates removed and the Auxiliary sleeve's and actuator's/rod's removed and the remaining unwanted material removed and polished. you may with this setup net yourself 150rwhp and thats optimistic. Now the next thing would be a header but since you changed the rules and you cannot use that anymore that will be the main bottleneck!
The engine is a pump to make power you need to make it easier to ingest and expel air into and out of that engine. saying no header is fubar since a safc will cause you to fail state inspection's like a header would, at least here in ca!

Removing wires and plug's may shed about 10lbs max! that's a whopping 1/100 off your 1/4! or about a tenth of a car length! i thought we where talking hp here and not times?

I think you need to look into an s5 intake setup or you need to go carb buddie and both of those are not smog legal ether!

So your confusing everyone now because you are going back and forth from making power,getting good times,staying smog legal, and staying NA and everyone has a different approach in how you achieve them!


Basically what your asking is impossible given the circumstances.

 

Your problem is the way you talk to people you ask for help then shoot down there suggestion's!

For your info since you brought up the ***** measuring contest i was a m1a2 abram's tank system mechanic in the army i have exp you could only dream of! ever replaced a 1500hp gas turbine engine in 30min in the field while it was raining?

Didnt think so so before you go calling people out make sure your not going to own yourself in the process!

Newb's..when the wiring harness of an s4 weigh's 50 lb's.

 

I helped put together the only N/A 2 rotor on this forum that made 200 RWHP on sideports (206 actually! on a ******* dynapack!). I'm not trying to take credit, my point is simply that I know what it takes to make 200rwhp n/a, I saw it first hand! It's more complicated than you're making it out to be, and there's a lot of fine tuning and trial and error involved. I dont care what ******* fuel you use, its not happening with stock intake ports and a ******* stock exhaust manifold.

I've seen more than a few people like you come and go, all promising big power n/a with some very simple (and frequently stupid) ideas, auxiliary bridge porting comes to mind. No one has been able to hit their 200hp goal, and most of them just dissapear (in shame I'm guessing). I've even seen some peripheral port and full bridgeport engines fail to do it. It's not exactly easy.

It's not that I even care what you believe or what you do with your car, but you come on here saying **** like this:

and you've never even ******* done it! how could you even say that and actually believe it!? You're flat out spreading misinformation and wasting everyone's time.

 

blackball7, you really made yourself look like a dumbass. Why insult people like that? It does nothing for the thread, and just clogs it. Your 18 and "you've been to school for that ****". At 18, I can't really see you having much mechanical schooling with the exception of some concurrent classes at your local college.

And did no one teach you to respect your elders? **** like that is the reason our generation is looked down.


And to killakitiie, thanks for serving. I used to be a 97E (HUMINT).






With all that said, there has been alot of useful knowledge in this thread that will definately help me towards my 180+rwhp goals.

 

HAHAHAHAHA....

The ASE tests are basically a way to get money from people. They give you all of the answers in the test book! But when you give them all that money (what is it, $85/certification every four years, times nine certs) you get a piece of paper that says "Hey, I can sit at a desk for a half hour and give them lots of money."

Two can play the "I haz moar experients then u" game. But then I've only been working on cars professionally for 12 years, on the side for longer... and I can also tell you that just because you know how to service, diagnose, and repair cars, does not mean you know jack about *engineering* things. (Hint: This is why many many shops refuse to do any custom work, because once most techs are outside the realm of OEM, they're boned)


You are an example of youthful optimism (good) untempered by the scars of experience. We all have been like that.

Even assuming that you can make more power with hydrogen than gasoline (unlikely, given that the main problem is getting more *oxygen* into an engine, not more fuel), where are you going to store it? Storing hydrogen is quite expensively heavy and awkward given how the stuff is so small it can leak right *through* solids. (The BMW hydrogen car leaks out about 1/3rd of its fuel load every *day* whether you use it or not)

I sincerely hope that you're not planning on generating it on the fly. In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

 

+1 on the ASE exams- those are a joke. As far as blackballs goes- instead of all this hear say, prove to us what you say can be done and do it, if not then stop talking **** and go study for another ASE exam. I know what it takes to make 200hp and it isnt going to happen on stock ports and exhaust and pass smog. So prove me wrong or STFU!

 

wow. before you start talking ****, learn to ******* read... were did i say you have to keep the stock ******* exhaust manifold?

Tanks and rx-7s go hand in hand? ****, news to me.

right dumbass, actually, ive had 2 years of auto tech, 2 years of manufacturing, and 2 of small engines and will be continuing classes next year.

and i have done work with hydrogen and have seen the results first hand. its only emission is h2o, the more hydrogen you use and less gas = better emissions. My old shop teacher has the ******* proof. the only thing we dont have "visual" proof of is the power gains, but you can ask anyone in the class and they'll tell you it was a good gain.

bitch, ive done more in my 18 ******* years then you have in your meaningless ******* life. just because your a "elder" doesnt mean you deserve ******* respect, you still have to earn it. I gave everyone respect concerning their posts weather i agreed or not, and you want to bitch at me? ******* ***.

i never said it would be easy to make that power with stock ports, but it can be done. and if i had the ******* money i would gladly show you results, but i have my priorities straight and my project car is not the biggest priority that i have.

 

Tell me you're not talking to me?

 

Since you pretty much pissed away any knowledge anyone has about n/a tuning on these cars, here's something to think about. If you do happen to hit your 200whp on stock ports(unlikely now), do you know how peaky the power band will be? You will need very close gear ratios to make it worth it. Area under the curve is what makes you fast.

You need to think about how you come at people, especially those who know more than you and are (were) willing to help you.

 

wow! Where's the moderator? You guys should chill with the naughty language. Only someone whose logic has failed will resort to verbal personal attacks outside of decent discussion. Why not use an oxygen tank along with a hydrogen tank? Rocket fuel is good. air is only 20% oxygen. Enough with the name calling. You should both be barred for being childish.

Ramses666

 

I was not being childish i approached this thread as an adult and was attacked!

Im cool with everyone that is adult and respectfull.

 

The claim of "passes emissions". That would require the OEM manifold, given as no header currently has an exemption and therefore would fail a visual.

When you make a broad statement, you need to cover all of your bases. In the case of "passes emissions" then you need to go from a worst-case example.

I could just as easily claim that my peripheral port passes emissions. Here's how: We don't have a visual. For cars as old as mine, there isn't a sniffer test, either. (To show you how much of a JOKE the sniffer test is, I have passed a carb stockport 12A with a halfway clogged Catco (useless) converter and a check valve instead of an ACV. No air pump. Oh, and my ignition timing's mechanical advance was locked at 22 degrees, with the vacuum advance on top of that... you know how ignition timing and hydrocarbon emissions are related... and it did about half of the maximum HCs)

That and a set of wrenches from Harbor Freight can help you do oil changes.

Where did the unverified power gain come from? Was it due to hydrogen, or was it due to mixture control/atomization problems when the engine was running on gasoline and the use of a gaseous fuel helped correct that? Comparing hydrogen to another gaseous fuel such as propane would be a better example. Ever worked on a Chevy inline six? Horrible mixture problems. The end cylinders and the center cylinders would see wildly different air/fuel ratios because the carb was right over the center cylinders and the intake manifold was a collection of right angle turns. Get 2 and 5 right, and you'd have two wet-fouled plugs and two bone-white plugs, because wet fuel doesn't travel the same way a gas does. Propane (or really good carb heat to get the gasoline vaporized) would help this situation a lot.

Just the opposite... you give everyone respect until such time as they make it apparent that they do not deserve it. (Such as you are trying very hard to do, it seems) This is how civilization works.

"Elder"? Hardly. I've only been doing this stuff for barely over a decade. The elders are the guys who've been doing it since the 60's or earlier and have piles of twisted wreckage to show what they've been doing.

Of course, they didn't have two-year courses and Internet knowledge back then, so they had to actually *do* stuff.

 

The moderator has just taken a vacation and is very disappointed to come back to this little tragic mess.

Alright everyone, back to your corner, next insult I see gets an infraction. No warning will be given here, just infractions. I don't care whether you have the greatest rebuttal in the world ready for the last insult someone just gave you, keep it in yourself, lest you want a quick trip to the timeout bench.

I'm leaving the garbage up so people can see what NOT to do.

Only positive discussions here, people

Assumption is NA is air + fuel with fuel being gasoline or something else accessible to the common member.

You can talk about hydrogen, that's fine, but please preface it at the beginning of the thread so you don't get people's hopes up for nothing. Otherwise, you look like a dumbass, period.

Besides, even someone as simple minded as me can't understand this question:

If you have, in a contained chamber, 10 moles of oxygen and a stoichiometric ratio of gasoline (14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel by mass) and in another contained chamber, 10 moles of oxygen and a stoichiometric ratio of hydrogen (whatever hydrogen's AFR is, I'm not quite sure), which mixture makes more power when ignited with a spark?

 

Liquid Hydrogen has a BTU (British Thermal Unit) of 60,000 per pound where as gasoline has a BTU of 18,000 per pound. Therefore hydrogen not only is more explosive it takes less to make the same power therefore making it lighter and more efficient when used properly.

So with everything being equal my bet is with the hydrogen seeing as it hold's a higher btu envelope than gasoline and will give off more energy when ignited

 

Doesn't it depend on the available air in the sealed system as well?

 

problem is hydrogen has more energy per mass (joules / kg) than gasoline but almost 1/3 the energy per volume (joules / L) that gasoline does.

 

How many pounds of hydrogen do you need for a safe mixture with oxygen? If it's 4x as much then it's a downside.

Explosive is bad, BTW. We don't want the mixture to explode, we just want it to burn. Exploding breaks parts.

Which brings me to my next point... BTU is a small part of it. If the fuel can ignite cleanly and burn *quickly*, then you need less ignition lead, so you are doing less negative work trying to compress a burning mixture. (This is why a piston engine absolutely craps on a rotary for efficiency - good mixture burn characteristics - and the latest chamber technology is insane for getting the fuel burnt quickly)

That's a lot of why alcohol fuels seem to make more power than the numbers generate... since they carry oxygen in their molecules, they are more of a monopropellant than gasoline is... one of the big hurdles in burnability is getting the fuel vaporized well enough to get all the oxygen to it. (And this is also why rich fuel mixtures make more power to an extent... ensures every oxygen molecule gets fuel)

Engines aren't air pumps, engine technology derived from firearm technology. Engines are guns!

 

Eventually....you will have to crack the case- as my brother HAD to (DAMN, those factory apex seals ). After he got his car back, the setup was as follows: street port, turbo II secondary...that's it. The E-fan (FOR A V8), cone filter, removal of cat; he had previous to the apex-fail. The setup was known to beat a V8. If some more power is wanted; ****- drop a turbo in...

Damn- can we all just get along? Egos are getting out of control!