MoTeC My *Official* Motec M2R Thread
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 1
From: Connecticut
These are the fundamental expenses for a midlevel Motec system then?
What benefit would that offer over less expensive EMSs? Reading through the feature list of the Motec doesn't seem to offer much more then other ECUs besides sequential injection and a heck of a lot more I/O.
That would be a standard of any EMS install.
What benefit would that offer over less expensive EMSs? Reading through the feature list of the Motec doesn't seem to offer much more then other ECUs besides sequential injection and a heck of a lot more I/O.
That would be a standard of any EMS install.
The harness I purchased is slightly more involved than most and we discussed a bunch of compelling reasons for me NOT to do the bulk of it.....
Regardless though the unterminated harness from Motec is $625 (or it was)
Pics of harness
mid level is joke... lol
the only reason i went through two lambda controllers was because I was sold on the glint and glamor of aem. it was a wash though because i was able to sell the aem for the price of the lc-1
the only reason i went through two lambda controllers was because I was sold on the glint and glamor of aem. it was a wash though because i was able to sell the aem for the price of the lc-1
I got a MSD 6AL hooked up. It made my base fuel map lean everywhere. The Lambda control kept the car running well for the most part, but idle and boost needed retuning.
We re-tuned the whole map, just to have a solid fuel map. But it went really fast. (about 1 hour)
On the way home, I did a little 1-4th pull. When I took off, I heard my belt squeel a little, and then about 1/2 way through the pull, I noticed my lights dim, voltage went to 12V and I smelled rubber (not tires).
The belt had flipped off the pulley, and turned inside out!! I've never seen a belt do that before. But it didnt break. Unfortunatly, I didnt have the tools to put it back on, so I had to wait about another hour for the coolant to drop. I was about 2 miles from home, so I limped her home eventually...
It's been a real adventure tuning lately.
We re-tuned the whole map, just to have a solid fuel map. But it went really fast. (about 1 hour)
On the way home, I did a little 1-4th pull. When I took off, I heard my belt squeel a little, and then about 1/2 way through the pull, I noticed my lights dim, voltage went to 12V and I smelled rubber (not tires).
The belt had flipped off the pulley, and turned inside out!! I've never seen a belt do that before. But it didnt break. Unfortunatly, I didnt have the tools to put it back on, so I had to wait about another hour for the coolant to drop. I was about 2 miles from home, so I limped her home eventually...
It's been a real adventure tuning lately.
Is there an itemized list of how much you spent and exactly what options you went through to get to your final configurations? Even if you don't want to post the exact prices, a "good enough" figure is probably a lot of help
M2R- 1600
Sensors- 330
Harness- Can't remember (think 150)
Deadband timing for 4 injectors- 200
Laptop Cable- 20
Wideband- 250
Advanced Tuning- 500
So, 3k to get where I'm at with this EMS.
Where does my car stand?
-Took one day to get running, after install of system (this is without the advanced tuning and NO base map)
-Went through the ups and downs of configuring the best wideband option. (now you don't have to)
-Got a mod'd stock turbo dialed in, after a couple nights of tuning
-Beat a C5 (300hp) vette
-Got a t04E dialed in after a couple nights of tuning
-My car is making so much power, I'm breaking differentials
All this is going on with the MoTeC and I am still upgrading the car. (fuel system, methanol, ingnition). So this whole time hasn't been spent on just tuning. The car it's self has been changing. When I started this thread, I had almost NO experience with tuning, so it took a while for me to become familiar with the skill. I'd say it's come a long way in a short time. this project is 2 years old in June.
Aaron!!! I got my AI system. Parts all came in this weekend. I need some advice on how to hook it all up to the MoTeC. I am planning on having the table run only off manifold pres. The pressure will determine how much psi the pump sprays.
How do I tell the pump what voltage = what psi?
How much control will I have over the pump?
Thanks
How do I tell the pump what voltage = what psi?
How much control will I have over the pump?
Thanks
Here is the Boost Juice system!!!!
Looks like it belongs in that bin, don't it!
Here is the second stage. I am running it post-compressor, pure methanol.
Here is my original AI system. It's a small injector, pre comressor, and is now spraying RO water ONLY. it will stay in tact and is activated at 1 PSI.
The second stage is wired into the MoTeC and went pretty smooth. So the MoTeC controls the AI system. Right now, the pump is on, or off. I don't yet have the ability to vary the duty cycle, but once I find the proper resistor, I'll have that ability. Right now, the AI table is set up based on PSI. Eventually, RPM or EGT will be added to the table.
I found the Over-boost feature on the MoTeC and set that up. It cuts fuel at the injector if there is a failure in the system, such as wastegate failure.
Looks like it belongs in that bin, don't it!
Here is the second stage. I am running it post-compressor, pure methanol.
Here is my original AI system. It's a small injector, pre comressor, and is now spraying RO water ONLY. it will stay in tact and is activated at 1 PSI.
The second stage is wired into the MoTeC and went pretty smooth. So the MoTeC controls the AI system. Right now, the pump is on, or off. I don't yet have the ability to vary the duty cycle, but once I find the proper resistor, I'll have that ability. Right now, the AI table is set up based on PSI. Eventually, RPM or EGT will be added to the table.
I found the Over-boost feature on the MoTeC and set that up. It cuts fuel at the injector if there is a failure in the system, such as wastegate failure.
Thanks for clearing that up Nick. There are a total of 4 aux outs on an M4, however on a rotary, you end up using 2 of them to run ignition and are only left with 2 to control fuel pump, fan, etc. There is a way around this as you can purchase an ignition expander box to control up to 8 ign outs from the single dedicated ignition out on the M4 and are then left with all 4 aux outs to use as you desire.
The M400/600/800 all have 8 proprietary aux outputs separate from ignition, so you can run a plethora of functions all with the immense control that version 3 allows.
I need to remember the heart rate monitor compensation, that's a good idea!!
The M400/600/800 all have 8 proprietary aux outputs separate from ignition, so you can run a plethora of functions all with the immense control that version 3 allows.
I need to remember the heart rate monitor compensation, that's a good idea!!
http://www.motec.com/products/cdi/cdi_main.htm
Stylemon,
Can the M2R run sequential ignition as is? or would this expander 2a+Ron mentioned need to be purchased?
EDIT NVM, MoTeC site answered that lol
YES it can by itself but you're left with only 1 extra output for a fan or fuel pump.
Can the M2R run sequential ignition as is? or would this expander 2a+Ron mentioned need to be purchased?
EDIT NVM, MoTeC site answered that lol
YES it can by itself but you're left with only 1 extra output for a fan or fuel pump.
Rotary Freak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Likes: 0
From: chandler, AZ
I'm in the same boat you were -- high impedance primaries and low impedance secondaries. My primaries are OEM 550cc Cosmo injectors -- side feed. Were your primaries side feed? If so, which ones did you switch to -- PN?
i went with hi primaries. the 1600 secondaries are more of a middle impedance. So by using the hi primaries, I don't have to worry about those silly peak inj warnings. yes, side feed
no, I am not getting peak errors. But I will if I run low impedence primaries and 1600 secondaries. That is why I am running hi impedence primaries.
Since the 1600s peak at a higher current than the low imp, and a lower current than the high imp, I am using the high impedence primaries. With the M2r (m4), I can only specify one range for all four injecotrs. The MX00 series allows you to assign differnt impedence for every injector though.
Since the 1600s peak at a higher current than the low imp, and a lower current than the high imp, I am using the high impedence primaries. With the M2r (m4), I can only specify one range for all four injecotrs. The MX00 series allows you to assign differnt impedence for every injector though.
I have the low impedence Bosch 1680s as secondaries on my engine, and there seems to be a similar injector offered my Marren that's rated at 570cc: http://www.injector.com/specs/05570PI.pdf
Would this combination be a good pairing? Would it cause a peak error?
Rotary Freak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Likes: 0
From: chandler, AZ
The peak errors are NOT caused from running 4 low impedance injectors, but from running the wrong current settings. You will be fine with high imp. primaries like stylemon is running. We have a high imp. injector with great atomization and flow qualities that would be perfect for a primary.
with the m series you cannot. they need to match. With the MX00 series you can specify separate ranges.
What I have is 1600 sec. that are actaully mid impedence. I dont remember the exact ohms but it's between the high and low range.
The reason I went with Hi Imp Primaries is because I wont get Peak errors on the primaries. the primaries are never peaking out since they have a higher resistance than the sec.
What I have is 1600 sec. that are actaully mid impedence. I dont remember the exact ohms but it's between the high and low range.
The reason I went with Hi Imp Primaries is because I wont get Peak errors on the primaries. the primaries are never peaking out since they have a higher resistance than the sec.
MSD off my Christmas Mailing List
No -- not running yet, but not because of the DIS-4s. I had no compression, pulled the motor, disassembled it, found that I had corrosion breaching into the rotor chambers from the coolant passages in both the front and rear irons. The water in the rotor chambers caused the side seals to stick in their grooves. I've replaced all the irons and rotor housings, used oversize studs and streetport, new rotor seals, and I'm about to put it all back together again.
What's to regret with the DIS-4s? I know that ignition cut on the ECU will be interpreted by the DIS-4s as low RPM, which will cause them to multi-strike (bad), so I have limited it to fuel cut only, per MoTeC's recommendation.
What's to regret with the DIS-4s? I know that ignition cut on the ECU will be interpreted by the DIS-4s as low RPM, which will cause them to multi-strike (bad), so I have limited it to fuel cut only, per MoTeC's recommendation.
!!! I have DIS-4 HOs, and they overheated while I was out crusing a few days ago. Almost loaded up my pants because it made the same sick sound as a blown apex seal. The relief came when I looked at my tach and it was at zero -- no trailing spark. After the boxes cooled, they came back to life again, but I'm thoroughly pissed now, and want nothing more to do with MSD. They say the HO boxes are for drag racing only, but an MSD Tech Rep convinced me that the weak link was the coils, and that I'd be OK if I used the right ones. He was wrong. This is compounded by all the bad reviews I've recently read about the regular DIS boxes (non HO versions).Now that my rage is subsiding, which CDI box do you recommend? Autronic, M&W, ViPEC? I hear that the multiple spark is good for driveability. Autronic and ViPEC offer that feature.
Rotary Freak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Likes: 0
From: chandler, AZ
I'm quite sure that the M&W has multiple spark as well. We have had great success with the M&W and I am running an autronic in my car, have yet to use the ViPEC though. Call Paul and he can get you a price on the M&W if you're interested.
Yes, I'm working with Paul on that now.
BTW -- a big thumbs up to Paul! He came to St. Louis to tune my car, and the whole thing was an awesome experience. I learned a lot, Paul learned a little (about some of the software idiosyncracies of the M2R), and the end result is that my car is now fast and fun to drive -- at least for a couple of hours until my DIS-4 boxes overheat. He knows a lot of stuff & I learned everything from how to set up my suspension to how to throw a good jab.
I highly recommend him.
BTW -- a big thumbs up to Paul! He came to St. Louis to tune my car, and the whole thing was an awesome experience. I learned a lot, Paul learned a little (about some of the software idiosyncracies of the M2R), and the end result is that my car is now fast and fun to drive -- at least for a couple of hours until my DIS-4 boxes overheat. He knows a lot of stuff & I learned everything from how to set up my suspension to how to throw a good jab.
I highly recommend him.
