stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

The innovate install went well. It was pretty straight forward. I downloaded all the software and manuals from their website.

At first, the innovate was spitting out some weird numbers, and I started freaking out. Not this again!!! I had already calibrated the unit so i was starting to get pist.

I opened up the Lambda calibration software and updated the Firmware. As soon as I did that, the unit was reading properly.

So i took the car into emisions while it was in closed loop, and I failed. It was over by double in both CO and HC.

Hopefully I'll be able to tune it to pass quickly...

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

CAR PASSED EMISSIONS!!!!!!!!!!! w00t! It passed on the third try.

Since the lambda table wasn't updated on the initial tuning trip, it hardly made any difference on the 2nd emissions pass.

Then I took another tuning trip. Tuned the lambda table, disconnected the wastegate rod, and leaned the hell outta the fuel map.

The car went flying through!

1st
HC 4+ FAIL
CO 34+ FAIL
NOX 1.56 PASS
Gas Cap Test PASS
Pressure Test PASS
Evap Components PASS

3rd
HC 1.3 PASS
CO 3.6 PASS
NOX 1.5 PASS
Gas Cap Test PASS
Pressure Test PASS
Evap Components PASS

In order to get the car to pass ,I had to:

*Put a catylitic on the car

*Get an airpump and bracket, then go to Checker and experinent with their belts to get the correct belt.

*Run a hose from the air pump to the nipple off the side of the cat.

*Get a charcoal canister and all lines. Hook them up.

*Replace the AEM EUGO lambda controller with the Innovate LC-1. AEM had some communication issues with MoTeC.

*Disconnect the wastegate rod. Most of the people at these smog places out here are young. They cant seem to go through a whole emissions test in my car with out pushing 5+ lbs of boost...

*Tune, Tune and Tune

I tuned the car for a target lambda of .97 to 1.0. the car wasnt running great, but it was running.

The lambda table made it real easy to tune as long as the car is in closed loop. Although, sometimes, the car goes outta closed loop and I cant figure out why. I think it is based on load.

But then what is the point of closed loop if it doesnt govern the car all the time?

Also, what then takes over once closed loop is dis-engaged? Just the main fuel table?

2a+RoN

closed loop turns off during any accel enrichment or fuel cut. If you're just cruising along and it randomly turns off, it might error out and disable say if it's trying to enrich over your stated maximum enrichment for longer than 30 seconds or whatever it is setup to.

You should call Paul though, we have some very interesting stuff that we've been playing with and I think it could greatly benefit your car and speed up the entire tuning process...

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

will do. Thanks Aaron. Now that I've got through the emissions fiasco, I'l like to concentrate on making some reliable power.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

Tuned for boost a few nights ago.

The O2 sensor has been moved back about 2FT down the downpipe.

Waste gate rod is hooked back up and AFR's are safe again. It is getting so easy to tune this thing now. The car was tuned for safe boost in two short sessions. The Lambda tuning makes things real simple.

Basically, I tune what my desired AFRs are at X pressure and X RPM. As long as the car is in closed loop, it finds the desired AFR no problem. Then I turn off Closed Loop and try to match the fuel maps so that if the car goes out of closed loop, it still is safe. That part is a little more time consuming. The 'Q' key is my friend!!

I was getting 17 MPG with the wastegate rod disconnected. Not sure what I am getting now with the turbo hooked back up, I'll have to gauge the next tank because she's in the shop for now. (turbo rebuild)

I raced a late C4 vette (Story in Kills Section). Boosted to about 10psi. I could smell the oil seal in the turbo cooking. It was damamged before, but now it's toast.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

Aaron, I just re-read this and it brought up some questions:
So is the ignition expander box something I have to get from MoTeC?

Or will a MSD 6A box work?

Lets say I have 1 6A for leading and one for trailing, do I need the expander box to tie these into the dedicated M4 input?

Also, I sent ya'll my map a little while ago. Since then, I've tuned the car again. Did ya'll ever get my map?

And How is that project coming?

2a+RoN

The expander box is only if you want to be able to only use one of the M4's ignition outputs to control all ignition channels so you can free up some additional outputs. MSRP is $380 plus $150 for the harness.. But then you'd be able to hook up a boost controller, water injection or whatever with the extra outputs.

If you just want to hook up a 6A, you can wire it inline before the coils. If you want a ignition box for each channel, you would actually need 3 boxes, one for leading since its wasted spark, and two for trailing. There are also 4-channel cdi boxes, but most are around $1k.

I believe we've got your map. We're still developing the software, plus we've made some recent advances that may make the entire tuning process substantially easier and faster... We've got an m400 on the way to wire into the shop gtus car so Paul can spend countless sleepless nights sorting everything out. We'll definitely give you a heads up once its ready..

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

cool bro. i just handn't heard from ya'll in a while and I know it gets busy over there.

Hit me up when your ready so I can get you an updated map.

Are you talking about Paul's Red GTUs or another one?

So with MoTeCs expander box, I can run MSD coils to an MSD box, then run the three MSD boxes in the expander box?

2a+RoN

Yeah the red gtus.

The wiring would go... single ign out from M4 into expander box, then you could run the three signals out of the box into the three msd's, then into the coils. With the expander box, you could even run direct fire if you wanted, so each spark plug would have its own signal, rather than waste spark on the leading.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

sweet. that is I was thinking.
Thanks for clearing it up.

Sometimes I just need a diagram to envision the connection

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

well, i got a big Turbo kit recently and the MoTeC lambda control did a good job of compensating with the new turbo, but I had tweak the base fuel map.

My 750cc couldnt hang with the to4E. I ran outta fuel while doing some test runs. 4th and 5th seemed fine at 9psi, but 3rd gear gave me one of MoTeCs infamous warnings: "Max injector Duty Cycle" pops up on the screen.

I went up to YawPower yesteday to get a couple 1600s. They are the Bosch brown tops. I think we are gonna put the high impedence injectors back in the primary spot to avoid getting peak injector warnings. We'll take a look at those today.

enzo250

those peak injector warnings, are you getting them while the car is running?

I believe those errors come up when you haven't reach the peak current you specified. I would try to lower your current setting until those errors go away.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

no, I am not getting peak errors. But I will if I run low impedence primaries and 1600 secondaries. That is why I am running hi impedence primaries.

Since the 1600s peak at a higher current than the low imp, and a lower current than the high imp, I am using the high impedence primaries. With the M2r (m4), I can only specify one range for all four injecotrs. The MX00 series allows you to assign differnt impedence for every injector though.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

I got the deadband timing for my 1600a and my high imp 550s... should have that info uploaded tonight!!

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to interupt, but it seems to me, that your EMS seems like it takes MORE work to get right, than any other that I have heard off. Do you agree? For the price I would hope that it would tune itself, but instead (to me) it seems like you have to battle it every step of the way. O.o

TitaniumTT

He's just keeping very good track of the progress of what's going on. Most people don't and it never gets spoken of. I have a good friend who battled his meecrotech so much that the thing wouldn't even start and despite countless threads and calls to AU it never even fired. Bought an Rtek and it ran PERFECT. No-one hears about the failures, only the successes when people want attention.

Motec is so far ahead of the other software it's silly. The support is second to none as well. I'm happy that Stylemon has started this thread. I plan on starting my own in the next week or so becuase I know I am going to need some help with the Version 3 software. It scares me a little

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

me = jealous

Thanks Titanium. Tweak, there is a LOT that goes into setting up EVERY ECU. We didnt even have a base map that was usable. If you read all of this thread, it took us ONE day to get the car drivable... And the tuner had never touched a MoTeC.

So to get the car drivable took us very little effort.

Tuning is a never ending thing with every ECU. Keep in mind that no one else has a M2R, and no one here is posting about MoTeC. So there is a learning curve here. There is just so many tunability tools with MoTeC... I mean, who else even uses deadband timing for their ECU... It's a small step but is HUGE when you are maxing out efficiency and power.

I'll admit, the lambda thing was a pain in the ***, but ask anyone who has tried to use AEM with other devices... it usually ends up with broken AEM parts...

2a+RoN

I think you hit the nail on the head. Most people don't realize the time that goes into properly setting up an ecu especially for somebody doing it the first time.

Titanium, I can't get over how cool version 3 is. After using it for over a year on my daily I keep finding new ways to use the nearly limitless control to do things that no other ecu could. I'll keep an eye out for your thread and help out when I can.

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

dude... make version 3 for the m4... please.

enzo250

Version 3 is very cool. I like it as well.. Although the SM4 is very similiar in limitless control. The only downfall to it is that is doesn't have the same number of inputs/outputs available due to limited number of pins.

enzo250

Then nobody would ever buy the Mx series ecu's...

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Questions...

Is there an itemized list of how much you spent and exactly what options you went through to get to your final configurations? Even if you don't want to post the exact prices, a "good enough" figure is probably a lot of help.

I've done a heck of a lot of EMS installs and I have to agree with TweakGames. Reading through this thread it seems that there was a lot of money thrown at this install. All kinds of dealer options, two different widebands, etc. Is this what one should expect with a typical Motec install?

The reason I ask is because I am considering a Motec for a future project. It's the only EMS that seems to have enough outputs. But if it's going to cost $5,000 then I'd just rather spend $189 on a Megasquirt and spend a few hours with a soldering iron adding the outputs I need...

TitaniumTT

That's what I'm hoping for. I do need to do alot of learning with the Version 3 though. I've delved into it VERY little to be completely honest with you but the guru that I went though holds the product and the company in the absolute highest regards. And in speaking with Simon last year about this project he feels that the Version 3 is basically the only product that will allow us to do what we are trying to do - FD sequential twin turbo's with an almost unnoticable transition. After we get the stockers dialed in we're going to bolt on a set of the BNR's and crank the boost to 18+.

What are you running for your FD if you don't mind me asking?

I spent WAY more than $5,000
M820 - $4300
Lambda - $700
DC Servo - $300
AIM digital Dash - $1000
Harness and connectors and senosors - alot.

I really don't think something that can be soldered together has the software capabilites of the version 3 though. I could be wrong. Isn't it just code that needs to be written in


I expect to be finishing the harness and installing everything else shortly and then firing her up hopefully by the end of March. That tis the plan. We shall see. I'll be sure to send you a PM with the link though Thanks for the offer.

-B

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

These are the fundamental expenses for a midlevel Motec system then?

What benefit would that offer over less expensive EMSs? Reading through the feature list of the Motec doesn't seem to offer much more then other ECUs besides sequential injection and a heck of a lot more I/O.

That would be a standard of any EMS install.

2a+RoN

that is not the mid-level system, that's right at the top. However, all motec prices just rose by 9%, so it will be even more expensive unless you pick up a used system.

Control and reliability are the main advantages over cheaper ECU's.. In version 3 you can change the axis on virtually any table to do whatever you want. Not to mention the injector controls witch are far better than most cheaper ECU's. Download the software and go through it and see what you think.