The ViPEC units sure look like the M&W ones, and I'm told the guy who designed the M&W units runs ViPEC. The ViPEC site shows multi spark as an option, while the M&W site doesn't. Aaron says M&W has multi spark??

 

Well M&W also makes the Motec CDI, except the programmable one so seems like M&W is in the middle of all of it...

 

Really, someone said that? If you knew the situation you'd find that statement hilarious. The only reason I'm responding is because this thread is the second link down when you search for 'vipec M&W' on Google.

ViPEC is a marketing company run by Ray Hall, that sells rebranded/modified versions of other people's products (e.g. Link, M&W). As far as I know, the only thing he has had to do related to M&W is throw his sticker on their units.

 

If that's the case, why does ViPEC offer multi spark, while M&W doesn't? Can you elaborate more, since I'll freely admit that I don't know the situation.

 

M&W does sell multi spark units (e.g. Pro-12).

Ray Hall did marketing and distribution for Autronic for years. Now he's off creating another brand (Vi-PEC) based on other vendors' products, with some of his own stuff mixed in.

Look at the identical spec sheets between the M&W Pro-14 Rotary S3 and the Vi-PEC XPS-4 CDI. Even the Vi-PEC manual is a modified M&W manual:

http://www.mwignitions.com/pdf/Rotary_S3.pdf
http://www.vi-pec.com/techdata/XPS-4_CDI_Doc.pdf

 

Yes, I got an e-mail reply from M&W stating that they make the Vi-PEC boxes for Ray Hall. Odd that they don't offer (or at least advertise) multi spark on their own units.

 

After doing some reasearch, I'm sold on the benefits of inductive ignition. I think the longer spark duration will enhance driveability, especially since I'm only running 9 PSI boost.

According to the manual, the MoTeC M2R has an 0.6 amp max current draw on the Ign drivers. I was firing my coils with a pair of MSD DIS-4 HO CDI boxes, but the boxes overheat on long stints, and it seems like most people aren't very happy with them anyway. I want to keep the coils I currently have because they're already mounted with ignition wires, and I also want to make it easy to switch back to CDI if I need to (with a better CDI box, of course).

1. These are the coils I'm running. They're called IGN-1 in some circles. Will they work well in inductive mode (picture below)?

Coil Specs:

Turns Ratio: 85:1
Primary Resistance: .09 Ohms
Secondary Resistance: 988 Ohms
Inductance: 3.7 mH
Max Voltage: 43,000 Volts
Peak Current: 800 mA
Spark Duration: 125 uS

2. I assume the current draw to fire the coils is too high to run them directly from the M2R, so I'm considering using a pair of Bosch Ignition modules (Dual Bosch Module 0227 100 200) to fire the coils, or maybe a Quad Module (Bosch 0 227 100 211 Module). Are these the right way to do it?

3. What should I set the dwell to on my M2R?

 

Those coils are also available with a built-in ignitor that is supposed to be quite powerful. The ones you have will work just fine with an external ignitor as well though.

 

Aaron is on the money as usual; the IGN-1A does have a built-in ignitor. Your IGN-1 and my IGN-1CD do not (i.e. "dumb ignitors). However, both the IGN-1 and 1A were designed for inductive ignitions.

All of these coils are from Lance Nist. If you need to get a hold of him for dwell or other questions, I know you can contact him ("Pantera EFI") on the EFI101 Forum.

BTW, if you're interested, I've got a used Bosch (quad-channel) Ignitor Module (p/n 0 227 100 211) with both connectors with attached harness and a custom made heatsink. PM an offer if interested.


Hope this helps.

 

Carlos,

You da man! I've received an amazing lack of information from BMEP and 034 Motorsport regarding these coils. When I ask them for specs, they're evasive or imply that I'm trying to steal their design so I can make my own!?! Looking at the specs, the ones I have must be the capacitive discharge version (IGN-1CDs). If I want to go inductive, I think I'll have to change to the inductive version.

Do Paul Yaw and Simon Wagner know about the IGN-1 and IGN-1A coils? What do they say about them?

 

I spoke with Lance Nist and Simon at MoTeC. Lance is an interesting character -- extremely knowledgeable, easily distracted, and obviously brilliant -- like a few college professors I've known. Simon only has good things to say about the coils, but at this point, it's all based on bench testing. His first feedback from a race application will be in a few months from a Viper team.

I'm now convinced to go with the IGN-1As, with the built-in ignitor. It means I'll have to re-do my mounting brackets, but that's OK -- I think it'll be worth the effort. It's such a nice, self-contained package, that I can't pass it up.

This is a challenging, expensive, but rewarding journey. The best things are the people you meet along the way and the knowledge you gain . . .

 

Glad I could help. Sounds like your talking to all of the right people (i.e. Simon, Paul, Lance). Though I've never had occassion to communicate with Lance directly, I've read perhaps hundreds of his posts and would concur completely with your assessment.

That said, I have to admit that I'm surprised by your interaction with Brian at BMEP. Though admittedly I purchased my coils from him, I had EXCEPTIONAL customer service from Brian. I though him obviously very knowledgable and receptive to my many questions.

Again, I absolutely concur with you about the rewards of these rotary adventures. In the end, it's always meeting interesting and like-minded enthusiasts that is the true fountainhead of joy in the endeavour.

 

I'm getting to the point with the tune that the car is a genuine ball to drive. It's almost like stock, with about 3 times the power. I'm controlling boost with the ECU, and we're gradually turning it up. The W/G springs are 0.6 Bar, or 9 PSI, and we've worked up to a whopping 11 PSI so far. I know -- not a whole lot of boost, but the car is an FB, and 355 RWHP feels pretty fast. My goal was to make a car that's relatively fast, well put together, and near bulletproof -- capable of long road race sessions without issues. Temps are all nice and low. Can't wait to get it to the track.

 

355 rwhp in a 1st gen sounds like a blast!!

 

Hang on for the ride... LOL

 

Installed the IGN-1A's, and it's nice. Compared to my old setup with the twin DIS-4 HO boxes, this arrangement seems to start better and run smoother. The exhaust tone is a bit mellower. Power seems about the same.

Based on two days of driving, I think this was a great change -- the setup cost about $900 less than what I had, it's more reliable, and runs smoother.

Since I was using the tach output from one of my DIS-4 boxes to send a signal to my tachometer, I had to use an IGN-Combiner module from MoTeC to combine the pulses from the two leading ignition channels so the tach would read correctly. I did need to use the 1K pullup resistor to get it to work properly.

Also, I wired in a Raptor shift light. It's pretty simple and very nice. Small, self-contained, with 3 wires -- +12V, Ground, Signal. It has switches to set pulses per revolution and RPM limit.

 

its funny how some people like to call those coils there own when there actually mototron coils from mercury marine engines...

 

When I spoke with Lance, he said he was part of a group that designed the coils. Untrue?

 

Aaron, I am curious if the MoTeC M2R has a feature to regulate the fuel pump with load?
I've upgraded my fuel pump to a Walbro, and have bypassed the stock resistor (or what ever stock unit was originally there).

 

Dwell Table for IGN-1A: My ignition's breaking up at about 6K. My current dwell is set at 3.0 ms across the board. Do I need more dwell at higher RPMs? Does anybody have a table that would correct this?

 

I thought the MoTeC guys would enjoy a little log action ( check out the AITs!!!)

 

ok just a quick question, is this too close to have the two units sitting next to each other, as some tuners in my neck of the woods have hinted that i may get interference from the cdi box crossing over to the m2r , yay or nay, or are they just being gay

 

They should be fine as long as the wiring doesn't get anywhere near each other.

 

thats what i thought and have done, plus they are used to dealing with teh shitty microtech harness, and not the quality motec harnesses, not many motec users in perth on rotaries, its a micro town

 

My car has some buck and bobble at very light throttle. I was looking at the Lambda Table, and noticed that wide band is turned off (lambda value of zero) over the entire light load region. Should it be turned on? What should the values be? My idle is at around 1800 RPM. At what RPM should it be turned on?