My Budget Peripheral Port/80mm Turbo/60mm ITB/Intake Manifold/Fuel System Build
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,428
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From: Marion, Ohio
I just read this whole thread, and have to agree with everyone that this is awesome! I currently have a similar 4 rotor project going on in my "spare time". I run the fabrication dept. at a Porsche race shop and have much of the same equipment on hand minus the CNC stuff. We get to design/build this kind of stuff everyday.....need a job? 
. I've been working my *** off on it past couple weekends; tuning is scheduled for May 2nd. I will most certainly not be revving to 10k, more than likely around 8.5k. Exhaust and 99% of the engine work is finished, just need to wire up a proper ignition and sort out the interior.
Speaking of ignition, I purchased two MSD Blaster HVC coils (will be triggered by a single-channel Haltech ignitor) for the leading plugs. Will these be sufficient for 600-650whp? I ran completely stock ignition on 530whp with no problems, so I am assuming so. Any suggestions on spark plugs?
Actually, I DO need a job. I will be up Monday morning for an interview .
I've been working my *** off on it past couple weekends; tuning is scheduled for May 2nd. I will most certainly not be revving to 10k, more than likely around 8.5k. Exhaust and 99% of the engine work is finished, just need to wire up a proper ignition and sort out the interior.
Speaking of ignition, I purchased two MSD Blaster HVC coils (will be triggered by a single-channel Haltech ignitor) for the leading plugs. Will these be sufficient for 600-650whp? I ran completely stock ignition on 530whp with no problems, so I am assuming so. Any suggestions on spark plugs?
. I've been working my *** off on it past couple weekends; tuning is scheduled for May 2nd. I will most certainly not be revving to 10k, more than likely around 8.5k. Exhaust and 99% of the engine work is finished, just need to wire up a proper ignition and sort out the interior.
Speaking of ignition, I purchased two MSD Blaster HVC coils (will be triggered by a single-channel Haltech ignitor) for the leading plugs. Will these be sufficient for 600-650whp? I ran completely stock ignition on 530whp with no problems, so I am assuming so. Any suggestions on spark plugs?
Are you going to tune for 10k rpm once you get a different e-shaft?
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Idaho
Wow I always wished I was enrolled in the automotive program at our university so that I could work on cars all day but seeing what you've done in your program blows my mind! Bang up job man! I can only hope by build goes nearly as smoothly as everything you've managed to accomplish in such a short period of time.
I don't think that your HP limit will be from the detonation resistance of the fuel as you increase boost with 110 octane and methanol, but rather keeping the exhaust dillution of the intake charge in check as you increase boost and therefore exhaust backpressure.
I was just reading that when Mazda made its turbo race engines they chose bridgeport instead of peripheral port.
My guess is the P-port is always open where as a moderate bridge is shrouded by the rotor flank at times.
The book also said Mazda had a system to open the wastegate under lower rpm/load to help engine response. I am guessing move also reduced intake exhaust dillution.
I think you will make a boat load of HP with a huge exhaust housing and a couple huge wastegates with runners designed for WG flow, it would just lack the response Mazda was looking for on the road course.
Awsome work BTW!
I was just reading that when Mazda made its turbo race engines they chose bridgeport instead of peripheral port.
My guess is the P-port is always open where as a moderate bridge is shrouded by the rotor flank at times.
The book also said Mazda had a system to open the wastegate under lower rpm/load to help engine response. I am guessing move also reduced intake exhaust dillution.
I think you will make a boat load of HP with a huge exhaust housing and a couple huge wastegates with runners designed for WG flow, it would just lack the response Mazda was looking for on the road course.
Awsome work BTW!
Just found this thread, you have some skill my friend!
I live in Ohio, and plan on hitting up alot of the local meets, I hope to see this car out and about. The craftsmanship is amazing!
I live in Ohio, and plan on hitting up alot of the local meets, I hope to see this car out and about. The craftsmanship is amazing!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,428
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From: Marion, Ohio
Set sail for fail. 
Took it to Defined Autoworks on Tuesday for a good race gas tune, however ran into serious issues. As boost went up, power went down. The car made a paltry 350rwhp at 12psi, then went down to 250 at 18psi. The engine did not respond well to boost at all and made quite a fuss. Logan suspects there is just too much exhaust gas reversion. I agree with him and believe it is because of the exhaust port size and location. The two used housings I purchased had very shoddy exhaust porting already done, with one of the ports being quite a bit higher than stock. When I ported them to match, I ended up with less than ideal exhaust ports. I had hoped that the large 1.32 a/r T6 turbine and 4" straight-through exhaust would provide minimal back pressure, but it seems it is still too high for this port configuration. Luckily, I have a spare set of PP housings with stock exhaust ports that I am most likely going to design an ideal exhaust port for. Unfortunatlely, I have to pull the damn motor back apart to swap them out and it will be a few weeks before I can get back on the dyno.
On a positive note, I should have plenty of data on ideal peripheral port timing and design by the time I get this figured out. Logan did a great job tuning the car with what he had to work with and I will certainly be taking it back to Defined until I get this right.
Took it to Defined Autoworks on Tuesday for a good race gas tune, however ran into serious issues. As boost went up, power went down. The car made a paltry 350rwhp at 12psi, then went down to 250 at 18psi. The engine did not respond well to boost at all and made quite a fuss. Logan suspects there is just too much exhaust gas reversion. I agree with him and believe it is because of the exhaust port size and location. The two used housings I purchased had very shoddy exhaust porting already done, with one of the ports being quite a bit higher than stock. When I ported them to match, I ended up with less than ideal exhaust ports. I had hoped that the large 1.32 a/r T6 turbine and 4" straight-through exhaust would provide minimal back pressure, but it seems it is still too high for this port configuration. Luckily, I have a spare set of PP housings with stock exhaust ports that I am most likely going to design an ideal exhaust port for. Unfortunatlely, I have to pull the damn motor back apart to swap them out and it will be a few weeks before I can get back on the dyno.
On a positive note, I should have plenty of data on ideal peripheral port timing and design by the time I get this figured out. Logan did a great job tuning the car with what he had to work with and I will certainly be taking it back to Defined until I get this right.
I would think about this a little more before tearing down the motor. I wen VERY high on my ports and still made a **** ton of power. We had to raise the rev limiter because the power was still going up at 9500. The power finally peaked and started dropping at 10,200. Mine is not a full p-port either. You should be able to make some insane power in the upper RPM range!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
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From: Marion, Ohio
Logan suggested temporarily hooking up a Electromotive to see if it is an ECU or ignition problem before tearing apart the motor. I was running B10EGV plugs gapped to 0.022", two 2nd gen leading coil ignitors driving two MSD Blaster SS coils and stock trailings for ignition.
I would try another stand alone. I don't see the porting making things EXTREMELY bad. Although, the exhaust ports are huge I still don't see it making performance decrease. Even if I'm wrong, an ecu swap is much quicker than a R&R with a full teardown...
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,428
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From: Marion, Ohio
^You could very well be right, I will be changing some things around when I go to the dyno again. I am currently installing a pressure sensor on my exhaust manifold so we can get a better idea of what is going on there. I am going to try going back to stock ignition again (I have never been able to get an aftermarket ignition to work properly with this Microtech) and try going back to two secondary injectors instead of the four. Logan has suggested a few other potential problems that we will investigate as well. Does anyone know where I can get different sized S475 turbine housings? I am thinking about trying a different A/R...
Here are a couple dynographs from last time. Seems to run fine, although very laggy, up until about 5300 RPM when everything suddenly goes to ****.
Here are a couple dynographs from last time. Seems to run fine, although very laggy, up until about 5300 RPM when everything suddenly goes to ****.
Hope you get it sorted out. FWIW, I'm a huge fan of my electromotive. Very powerful box! The single tower coils that they provide have lit down as low as 9.5AFR on my setup without hiccups (not that I run those ratios, but during tuning it had no problem lighting them. Below 9's it wasn't happy though) No complaints here!
After reading thru your build.. I was too thinking your hotside housing was TOO big. P-port with a huge AR hotside on a 13B seemed like overkill to me... 1.32 hotside is way big on a 20B...so its HUGE on a 13B and even P-ported
You have a 1.32 right??
If this was my setup I would go with a 1.0 or 1.05 max....
You are on a T6 flange hotside.... right?
If so, I have a NEW Garrett T6 1.05 hotside left over from my GT45. My Exhaust wheel is an 83 trim (very small), and I am sure your S475 exhaust wheel is larger.. This means you could use my 1.05 and machine it to accept your larger exhaust wheel as I am sure you trim is larger than 83.
If you decide you want it pm me.. Again its NEW.. My GT45 is now sprting a Tial Stainless steel 1.0 custom housing... So I have no use for the T6 housing any longer..
Brian
You have a 1.32 right??
If this was my setup I would go with a 1.0 or 1.05 max....
You are on a T6 flange hotside.... right?
If so, I have a NEW Garrett T6 1.05 hotside left over from my GT45. My Exhaust wheel is an 83 trim (very small), and I am sure your S475 exhaust wheel is larger.. This means you could use my 1.05 and machine it to accept your larger exhaust wheel as I am sure you trim is larger than 83.
If you decide you want it pm me.. Again its NEW.. My GT45 is now sprting a Tial Stainless steel 1.0 custom housing... So I have no use for the T6 housing any longer..
Brian
Last edited by Japan2LA; May 19, 2009 at 03:37 PM.
If you're looking for a hot ignition talk to Luke Weber (comitatus) about his Mercury coil setup. Will trigger directly off the Microtech if you use the stock toggle off the trail coil. Are you sure you're getting spark on all four leads?