Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,147
Likes: 1
From: San Diego, CA
Gosh, lots of negative comments lately.
I think most of the people who have left such comments have never undertaken a large project and demanded the type of perfection David is after.
I for one can attest that set back and delays tend to seem endless with this kind of custom work. It takes a LOT of patience.
Keep on truckin' David... you're almost there and I for one want to see how it turns out.
I think most of the people who have left such comments have never undertaken a large project and demanded the type of perfection David is after.
I for one can attest that set back and delays tend to seem endless with this kind of custom work. It takes a LOT of patience.
Keep on truckin' David... you're almost there and I for one want to see how it turns out.
sans FD....
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, LOZ, KCMO, then CO
sometimes things don't always work out the way they were planned to, but that's life. hell, it took a year longer than *scheduled/expected* just for my car to get tuned.
big props to David for staying in the rotary game for so long. That's true passion for ya.
i just wish i had a 20B as well....
big props to David for staying in the rotary game for so long. That's true passion for ya.
i just wish i had a 20B as well....
~Insane Burnout
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
From: Off the grid
sometimes things don't always work out the way they were planned to, but that's life. hell, it took a year longer than *scheduled/expected* just for my car to get tuned.
big props to David for staying in the rotary game for so long. That's true passion for ya.
i just wish i had a 20B as well....
big props to David for staying in the rotary game for so long. That's true passion for ya.
i just wish i had a 20B as well....
I hope we hear from David real soon!
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 2
From: San Francisco, CA
Keep in mind that just as things are about to come together with this project but don't for one reason or another, David changes his mind, adds things to be done or insists other things get redone.
That alone will prevent any project from ever seeing fruition in a timely matter.
As most custom projects require shakedowns to determine if everything is performing as expected, many encounter hiccups that need addressing and this takes time, particularly when you are contracting a shop to do the work. With very few exceptions, no one client financially supports a shop so there is other work to be done by the shop.
Then throw in the fact that almost without exception, when David encounters one of those hiccups, he decides he wants to make changes to the setup. Round and round it goes.
I'm expecting him to just swap it out for a 4-rotor before this comes to an end
That alone will prevent any project from ever seeing fruition in a timely matter.
As most custom projects require shakedowns to determine if everything is performing as expected, many encounter hiccups that need addressing and this takes time, particularly when you are contracting a shop to do the work. With very few exceptions, no one client financially supports a shop so there is other work to be done by the shop.
Then throw in the fact that almost without exception, when David encounters one of those hiccups, he decides he wants to make changes to the setup. Round and round it goes.
I'm expecting him to just swap it out for a 4-rotor before this comes to an end
Keep in mind that just as things are about to come together with this project but don't for one reason or another, David changes his mind, adds things to be done or insists other things get redone.
That alone will prevent any project from ever seeing fruition in a timely matter.
As most custom projects require shakedowns to determine if everything is performing as expected, many encounter hiccups that need addressing and this takes time, particularly when you are contracting a shop to do the work. With very few exceptions, no one client financially supports a shop so there is other work to be done by the shop.
Then throw in the fact that almost without exception, when David encounters one of those hiccups, he decides he wants to make changes to the setup. Round and round it goes.
I'm expecting him to just swap it out for a 4-rotor before this comes to an end
That alone will prevent any project from ever seeing fruition in a timely matter.
As most custom projects require shakedowns to determine if everything is performing as expected, many encounter hiccups that need addressing and this takes time, particularly when you are contracting a shop to do the work. With very few exceptions, no one client financially supports a shop so there is other work to be done by the shop.
Then throw in the fact that almost without exception, when David encounters one of those hiccups, he decides he wants to make changes to the setup. Round and round it goes.
I'm expecting him to just swap it out for a 4-rotor before this comes to an end
Keep in mind that just as things are about to come together with this project but don't for one reason or another, David changes his mind, adds things to be done or insists other things get redone.
That alone will prevent any project from ever seeing fruition in a timely matter.
As most custom projects require shakedowns to determine if everything is performing as expected, many encounter hiccups that need addressing and this takes time, particularly when you are contracting a shop to do the work. With very few exceptions, no one client financially supports a shop so there is other work to be done by the shop.
Then throw in the fact that almost without exception, when David encounters one of those hiccups, he decides he wants to make changes to the setup. Round and round it goes.
I'm expecting him to just swap it out for a 4-rotor before this comes to an end
That alone will prevent any project from ever seeing fruition in a timely matter.
As most custom projects require shakedowns to determine if everything is performing as expected, many encounter hiccups that need addressing and this takes time, particularly when you are contracting a shop to do the work. With very few exceptions, no one client financially supports a shop so there is other work to be done by the shop.
Then throw in the fact that almost without exception, when David encounters one of those hiccups, he decides he wants to make changes to the setup. Round and round it goes.
I'm expecting him to just swap it out for a 4-rotor before this comes to an end
However, this isn't why the project has taken so long. It's generally, with the exception of Gotham, due to the ineptness of the shop doing the work. The Pettit Banzai setup did not work as advertised and didn't make the WHP claimed. Why? Turns out the engine rebuild was not done to standard and the engine was failing from day one. I'm just fortunate it started to fail while at Gotham and they were able to pull it apart and document the numerous issues with the build. The single turbo uprade by Wolf EMS USA (Chris Greene) was scheduled because the Pettit engine just couldn't make the claimed HP. Didn't know at the time the engine was failing or I wouldn't have gone down this path. And what happened there? Chris Green went out on a drug/drinking bender and totally screwed me. Was lucky to get the car out of his shop before he was shut down by his landlord. Several other forum members were not as fortunate.
I then spent a year at Gotham trying to have all of the screw-ups by the other shops fixed. This ultimately resulted in them finding the Pettit engine issues and it's taken me several months to recover from this, only to now have the turbo blow up and the car broken into. The good news is everything now seems to be on track to get the car done. I'll post up more soon - hopefully
Am I picky and do I insist that work should be redone if it is below par? Probably yes. I do expect the car to be in perfect condition and the work done to a high standard. Shouldn't we all have this expectation? I've owned the car from day one in 1994 so I know to what condition it's been maintained.
And no, there is no 4 rotor in the future for me. I value my marriage much more than the car and I think I've pushed my luck too too much with the build. My only goal is to get the car back so I can now enjoy it.
I've said my piece. You may now go back to your regularly scheduled programs
Way, way off the mark on your comments. I haven't changed my setup because of hiccups. Any alterations that have been made come from the desires of the shop (currently Gotham) because whatever existed needed to be fixed or the current setup was prone to failure down the road.
However, this isn't why the project has taken so long. It's generally, with the exception of Gotham, due to the ineptness of the shop doing the work. The Pettit Banzai setup did not work as advertised and didn't make the WHP claimed. Why? Turns out the engine rebuild was not done to standard and the engine was failing from day one. I'm just fortunate it started to fail while at Gotham and they were able to pull it apart and document the numerous issues with the build. The single turbo uprade by Wolf EMS USA (Chris Greene) was scheduled because the Pettit engine just couldn't make the claimed HP. Didn't know at the time the engine was failing or I wouldn't have gone down this path. And what happened there? Chris Green went out on a drug/drinking bender and totally screwed me. Was lucky to get the car out of his shop before he was shut down by his landlord. Several other forum members were not as fortunate.
I then spent a year at Gotham trying to have all of the screw-ups by the other shops fixed. This ultimately resulted in them finding the Pettit engine issues and it's taken me several months to recover from this, only to now have the turbo blow up and the car broken into. The good news is everything now seems to be on track to get the car done. I'll post up more soon - hopefully
Am I picky and do I insist that work should be redone if it is below par? Probably yes. I do expect the car to be in perfect condition and the work done to a high standard. Shouldn't we all have this expectation? I've owned the car from day one in 1994 so I know to what condition it's been maintained.
And no, there is no 4 rotor in the future for me. I value my marriage much more than the car and I think I've pushed my luck too too much with the build. My only goal is to get the car back so I can now enjoy it.
I've said my piece. You may now go back to your regularly scheduled programs
However, this isn't why the project has taken so long. It's generally, with the exception of Gotham, due to the ineptness of the shop doing the work. The Pettit Banzai setup did not work as advertised and didn't make the WHP claimed. Why? Turns out the engine rebuild was not done to standard and the engine was failing from day one. I'm just fortunate it started to fail while at Gotham and they were able to pull it apart and document the numerous issues with the build. The single turbo uprade by Wolf EMS USA (Chris Greene) was scheduled because the Pettit engine just couldn't make the claimed HP. Didn't know at the time the engine was failing or I wouldn't have gone down this path. And what happened there? Chris Green went out on a drug/drinking bender and totally screwed me. Was lucky to get the car out of his shop before he was shut down by his landlord. Several other forum members were not as fortunate.
I then spent a year at Gotham trying to have all of the screw-ups by the other shops fixed. This ultimately resulted in them finding the Pettit engine issues and it's taken me several months to recover from this, only to now have the turbo blow up and the car broken into. The good news is everything now seems to be on track to get the car done. I'll post up more soon - hopefully
Am I picky and do I insist that work should be redone if it is below par? Probably yes. I do expect the car to be in perfect condition and the work done to a high standard. Shouldn't we all have this expectation? I've owned the car from day one in 1994 so I know to what condition it's been maintained.
And no, there is no 4 rotor in the future for me. I value my marriage much more than the car and I think I've pushed my luck too too much with the build. My only goal is to get the car back so I can now enjoy it.
I've said my piece. You may now go back to your regularly scheduled programs
+1.. good reply...
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 2
From: San Francisco, CA
In no way did I mean to give you grief over your project, sorry if it came off that way. However 
, I've been following this thread since day one and I do not need a summary of of it. Regardless of the fact that Gotham or whoever suggests this or that, ultimately the car is yours and all decisions have to be approved by you.
I know Steve well and have met that tweaker from Wolf and all I can say is you are in good hands now compared to before.
I've been through it too am about to embark on something even more insane than what I'm normally used to, ask Steve. I know how determined you are to see this through to the highest level you expect and I would expect nothing less too.
Cheers
, I've been following this thread since day one and I do not need a summary of of it. Regardless of the fact that Gotham or whoever suggests this or that, ultimately the car is yours and all decisions have to be approved by you. I know Steve well and have met that tweaker from Wolf and all I can say is you are in good hands now compared to before.
I've been through it too am about to embark on something even more insane than what I'm normally used to, ask Steve. I know how determined you are to see this through to the highest level you expect and I would expect nothing less too.
Cheers
In no way did I mean to give you grief over your project, sorry if it came off that way. However , I've been following this thread since day one and I do not need a summary of of it. Regardless of the fact that Gotham or whoever suggests this or that, ultimately the car is yours and all decisions have to be approved by you.
I know Steve well and have met that tweaker from Wolf and all I can say is you are in good hands now compared to before.
I've been through it too am about to embark on something even more insane than what I'm normally used to, ask Steve. I know how determined you are to see this through to the highest level you expect and I would expect nothing less too.
Cheers
, I've been following this thread since day one and I do not need a summary of of it. Regardless of the fact that Gotham or whoever suggests this or that, ultimately the car is yours and all decisions have to be approved by you. I know Steve well and have met that tweaker from Wolf and all I can say is you are in good hands now compared to before.
I've been through it too am about to embark on something even more insane than what I'm normally used to, ask Steve. I know how determined you are to see this through to the highest level you expect and I would expect nothing less too.
Cheers
I also agree with you that one should have a plan and stick to it. Do more research than necessary before beginning the project and sit down and develop a detailed plan. Then stick to the plan through completion and hold the shop to completion dates. My major mistake was not doing this when I began the project at Pettit. I gave them free rein on the car and it turned out less than what I expected. Thus, my 4 year struggle began and here I am.
And I am right there with those of you that want to see me driving the car. Hopefully soon.
Magic Triangles no more!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
My car was down for almost 4 months while I swapped in an LS1 (waiting on parts) and I was getting antsy. Can't imagine 10x longer...
Things I've learned from dealing with shops:
1. Don't trust ANY shop, no matter what.
2. Hold them accountable for completion dates.
3. Do everything yourself.
Things I've learned from dealing with shops:
1. Don't trust ANY shop, no matter what.
2. Hold them accountable for completion dates.
3. Do everything yourself.
[QUOTE=aaron1017;8239195]
Things I've learned from dealing with shops:
1. Don't trust ANY shop, no matter what.
2. Hold them accountable for completion dates.
[QUOTE]
Thats a little extreme dont you think. Keep in mind the guys who work at shops have personal lives also. You would be amazed at the sacrifices shop owners and good shop employees make to keep a paying customer happy. Of course it is the shops job to provide the service that is paid for, but sometimes people are unrealistic on how long this type of work takes. Keep in mind we are messing with cars that were produced 16 yrs ago and at this point most have had a new engine put in which means likely stuff has been done wrong or rigged at some point.
Most of what it seems Gotham has done is fix others mistakes, and in the end they will probably make less profit then the ones who shafted David in the beginnning.
There are a few good shops left out there. However, taking on a project like David's is asking for stuff like this to happen. Just search all the other 3 rotor swaps out there, I dont think anyone has completed one within a year of their predicted date.
This isnt some domestic LSx setup that any ole guy at an oil changing shop can do a full rebuild and dianosis on
I threw that last comment in just for comical relief, not to start a LSx vs rotary debate.
Good luck David and I am sure this is coming to an end real soon.
Things I've learned from dealing with shops:
1. Don't trust ANY shop, no matter what.
2. Hold them accountable for completion dates.
[QUOTE]
Thats a little extreme dont you think. Keep in mind the guys who work at shops have personal lives also. You would be amazed at the sacrifices shop owners and good shop employees make to keep a paying customer happy. Of course it is the shops job to provide the service that is paid for, but sometimes people are unrealistic on how long this type of work takes. Keep in mind we are messing with cars that were produced 16 yrs ago and at this point most have had a new engine put in which means likely stuff has been done wrong or rigged at some point.
Most of what it seems Gotham has done is fix others mistakes, and in the end they will probably make less profit then the ones who shafted David in the beginnning.
There are a few good shops left out there. However, taking on a project like David's is asking for stuff like this to happen. Just search all the other 3 rotor swaps out there, I dont think anyone has completed one within a year of their predicted date.
This isnt some domestic LSx setup that any ole guy at an oil changing shop can do a full rebuild and dianosis on
I threw that last comment in just for comical relief, not to start a LSx vs rotary debate.Good luck David and I am sure this is coming to an end real soon.
[quote=djseven;8239255][quote=aaron1017;8239195]
Things I've learned from dealing with shops:
1. Don't trust ANY shop, no matter what.
2. Hold them accountable for completion dates.
Thats a little extreme dont you think. Keep in mind the guys who work at shops have personal lives also. You would be amazed at the sacrifices shop owners and good shop employees make to keep a paying customer happy. Of course it is the shops job to provide the service that is paid for, but sometimes people are unrealistic on how long this type of work takes. Keep in mind we are messing with cars that were produced 16 yrs ago and at this point most have had a new engine put in which means likely stuff has been done wrong or rigged at some point.
There are a few good shops left out there. However, taking on a project like David's is asking for stuff like this to happen. Just search all the other 3 rotor swaps out there, I dont think anyone has completed one within a year of their predicted date.
This isnt some domestic LSx setup that any ole guy at an oil changing shop can do a full rebuild and dianosis on I threw that last comment in just for comical relief, not to start a LSx vs rotary debate.
Good luck David and I am sure this is coming to an end real soon.
I couldn't agree more David.
-J
Things I've learned from dealing with shops:
1. Don't trust ANY shop, no matter what.
2. Hold them accountable for completion dates.
Thats a little extreme dont you think. Keep in mind the guys who work at shops have personal lives also. You would be amazed at the sacrifices shop owners and good shop employees make to keep a paying customer happy. Of course it is the shops job to provide the service that is paid for, but sometimes people are unrealistic on how long this type of work takes. Keep in mind we are messing with cars that were produced 16 yrs ago and at this point most have had a new engine put in which means likely stuff has been done wrong or rigged at some point.
There are a few good shops left out there. However, taking on a project like David's is asking for stuff like this to happen. Just search all the other 3 rotor swaps out there, I dont think anyone has completed one within a year of their predicted date.
This isnt some domestic LSx setup that any ole guy at an oil changing shop can do a full rebuild and dianosis on
I threw that last comment in just for comical relief, not to start a LSx vs rotary debate.Good luck David and I am sure this is coming to an end real soon.
-J
Thats a little extreme dont you think. Keep in mind the guys who work at shops have personal lives also. You would be amazed at the sacrifices shop owners and good shop employees make to keep a paying customer happy. Of course it is the shops job to provide the service that is paid for, but sometimes people are unrealistic on how long this type of work takes.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,793
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
I agree 100% with what david jerome posted
At this point, I typically tell customers that their car will be done when it's done.
In the rotary specialty game, if you want the work done right, either do it yourself (if you have the requisite skills) or wait for those that are skilled to complete it.
At this point, I typically tell customers that their car will be done when it's done.
In the rotary specialty game, if you want the work done right, either do it yourself (if you have the requisite skills) or wait for those that are skilled to complete it.
Usually shops is who says when stuff will be completed. If bysiness can't stay on target date - too bad. This is what he is talking about. I never myself set dates but I do ask when it will be complete. If it's not done in time - it's only shop's fault. They should know better and estimate accordingly.
Customers want to know when it will be done so you give them a conservative guess. Each car is different and sometimes they get done a week or two before schedule, you never hear those stories from the customers. Take and extra week or two and those are the stories that are usually heard.
I did a single swap for a customer a couple months ago, have the turbo sent off and rebuilt, install the turbo only to find it is still leaking oil out the exhaust side. Not my fault, but not the customers fault either. Since I sold him the turbo kit I ended up buying him a brand new t04r(not cheap by the way) and just eat it and get the job done about 2 weeks behind schedule. He understood the situation but these are things that happen when you are trying to do a quality build on a 16 yr old car.
If every shop said it would take 2-3 months to finish a job people would go elsewhere. Its just the nature of the business.
Im glad there are still people like David in the rotary world that can appreciate these cars and spend money to have things done the correct way.
I'm probably going to stoned alive for this...
Yep, some (all at some point in time) will lie to get your business and then string you along and inconvenience you until they complete the job or drain your assets... it has happened to David twice of the three shops his car has been to. Now how can you explain that?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,793
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
I should also mention that while I do give a ballpark time frame, we make it crystal clear that nothing is set in stone. Keep in mind this is in my specific case....Ihor and I do this part time, so it's an 'on the side' kind of thing
I think David Hayes has the right attitude about the situation, keep on truckin' bud
I think David Hayes has the right attitude about the situation, keep on truckin' bud
