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Injectors finally installed. Had to get CJM bungs for the dummy injectors as the dummy injectors are a hair shorter than the 48mm ID injectors and had a little slip up and down. The CJM bungs sit just a little higher than the FFE bungs.
1050 primary and 1700 secondary.
Excessive LIM is ported, vapor honed, and then painted with high temp epoxy paint.
Sorry if it was missed,
Did you order the "short" false dummy injector from race parts solution?
Thanks
no problem. I went with the medium version which is for 48mm injectors. Although I will say they are more like 46mm if you measure the way ID does their dimensions, they are a tad shorter (which is why I went to the CJM bungs).
It seats fine in the rail, and it bottoms out in the bung and doesn’t slide up and down, but the o ring doesn’t go as far down into the bung as I’d like (remember, the top part of the bung has a slight taper so the first few mm is not part of the seal. It’s in there, but I felt a little uneasy in terms of how far down the engagement is vs an actual injector. If I could find another brand of 48mm block offs I would. Projay makes nice ones that taper off at the bottom so they sit farther down into the bung, but I have 60mm and he is sold out of 48mm
also, make sure you get the right style or it won’t instal all the way. On the first delivery they sent me 2 different ones by accident (they said an old style one slipped in by accident and sent me a different one for free the next day).
You need the one on the right You can see the slight difference in length relative to o-ring placement here. Not a lot, but millimeters do matter. The injector is narrower at the end and gets inserted deeper, and the o-ring ends up deeper in the bung.
I ended using old injectors as dummies which is far from ideal. This seems to be a much better option even if not perfect.
Enjoy following your build, keep up the updates!
Latest on the 21st century sequential turbo system. EFR 6758, electronic internal gates, SXE compressor covers for higher flow, and all sequential system valves are electronically controlled and able to be variably positioned via the ECU.
Turbos are in their final resting place on the mocked up manifold. Took a while but finally got clearances where needed. Every time I solved one problem, another problem would surprise me. For example, mocked it up without a lower intake manifold first, then my primary turbo didn’t have room for a downpipe. Made adjustments but then I was hitting the water pump housing. Adjusted away from that and then the wastegate actuator arm was grazing the secondary turbo’s turbine inlet pipe. But now it all clears. And I have an excessive LIM which will actually be used on another car and I’m hopeful the new Turblown LIM will come out before I finish this which will have a bit more clearance. If not, I will mush the 3” downpipe for clearance around the bulky the front intake runner so I can get proper heat shielding.
Now that the base manifold is set, I can make the primary to secondary cross over pipe. I’ll go down to 1.5” pipe for that to save a little room vs the 2” everywhere else. Should be fine given it’s only active at lower rpm. Will work on the intake side after the exhaust side is done.
Front view. Trying to make them have the same angle relative to the engine block. Pointed slightly inward due to needing clearance by the primary downpipe vs the intake manifold. I wish I could make the compressor housing outlets have the same orientation, but that will be a compromise due to the wastegate actuators taking priority. Will work on the intake side after the exhaust side is done.
Side view. They are on vband housing inlets so can rotate to align perfectly before making the downpipe which will lock them in a fixed position
Excessive LIM clearance. This is as good as I can do without moving the secondary turbo out further to make more room for the primary turbo, but if I go any further the secondary turbo will hit the strut tower. I could use pie cuts here instead, but if the new intake doesn’t provide more clearance than this one, I will likely get this up and press in the corner. Kind of like how OEM downpipes are mushed around the steering bf rack on RHD cars haha.
This is why moving the primary turbo away from the intake isn’t really feasible. All the internal gate stuff takes up a lot of space. I’ll shave this down a little and there will be room on the secondary pipe for heat shielding while still allowing the wastegate actuator to move freely.
Little clearance from secondary turbo to strut tower. But just enough for heat shielding without contact.
Turbo control and prespool valves combined into a single valve thanks to the turbosmart straightgate. No rats nest or brittle solenoids needed to control it either. Red circle is where the crossover will be added.
Crossover pipe beginnings. Since taking this pic I’ve decided to switch to 1.5” pipe instead of 2”
Another view
Last edited by TwinCharged RX7; Aug 31, 2023 at 12:19 AM.
That's going to be amazing. Are there differences in the exhaust housings in the turbos? From the pictures it looks like the lower one may be a smaller A/R than the top but could just be the angle. I've always wanted to build something like this but I would have a fairly small turbine for almost instant response with a larger taking over. Lots of math and manifold routing to be able to properly pull that off to efficiently change from one to the next but using two similar turbos and compounding them makes that a bit more simple.
Thanks. They are the same turbos. These are pretty small so response should be better than the OEM twins and better than the best spooling single efr option that a lot of people really like. Will have emap sensors and turbo speed sensors on both and I think tuning the transition won't be too bad with how the ECU can control it. E.g. at 4k rpm, open the gate to 10% to act like the stock prespool valve and then gradually open all the way for a full twin system performance at 6k rpm. Log the data and fine tune it to get the smoothest transition and avoid over spinning the primary turbo prior to opening the second one.
the problem with EFRs is they’re so long and bulky, I’d love to do a pair of Garrett G25 v-bands direct piped straight up rather than sequential. The compressor is 79-80% efficient at peak, but I’ll have to live that virtually through you.
EFRs spool with the ceramic turbine impeller though, if you get the sequential worked out it should be quite the setup!
Thanks. They are the same turbos. These are pretty small so response should be better than the OEM twins and better than the best spooling single efr option that a lot of people really like. Will have emap sensors and turbo speed sensors on both and I think tuning the transition won't be too bad with how the ECU can control it. E.g. at 4k rpm, open the gate to 10% to act like the stock prespool valve and then gradually open all the way for a full twin system performance at 6k rpm. Log the data and fine tune it to get the smoothest transition and avoid over spinning the primary turbo prior to opening the second one.
The little kid in me wants to hear what this thing is going to sound like more than anything. I've always been addicted to turbo noises, especially from twin sequentials like MKIV supras (Probably one of the best sounding factory vehicles) and RX7s. I've built and tuned a few twin garret cars a while back but nothing sequential and would love to hear this during transition.
The little kid in me wants to hear what this thing is going to sound like more than anything. I've always been addicted to turbo noises, especially from twin sequentials like MKIV supras (Probably one of the best sounding factory vehicles) and RX7s. I've built and tuned a few twin garret cars a while back but nothing sequential and would love to hear this during transition.
I totally agree with you. Cruising around even at low rom in a TT Supra sounds amazing. The compressors really sing. I'd love for this to sound a bit like that.
the problem with EFRs is they’re so long and bulky, I’d love to do a pair of Garrett G25 v-bands direct piped straight up rather than sequential. The compressor is 79-80% efficient at peak, but I’ll have to live that virtually through you.
EFRs spool with the ceramic turbine impeller though, if you get the sequential worked out it should be quite the setup!
Well you will have quite the wait. Not sure when this will actually run haha. These turbos definitely take up more room than expected. And the internal gate makes them really long. I went internal gate because I thought it would save space, but it's really been challenging once I learned how much space the actuators take up. Had to rethink the placement a lot from my original plan. The actuators stick out in a very challenging spot. I originally thought the secondary turbo would be further back and had it mounted up before I bought the actuators, but then the actuator bracket hit the strut tower when I had it in the middle, and hit the ABS when I had it farther back. So forward it came. I don't mind how it ended up though, but thinking internal gates would save me a bunch of space was just the opposite of what happened. They still keeps things simplified though, so I don't really regret it yet.
And if it ultimately doesn't work well sequentially, I can just make a delete pipe for the turbosmart valve and run parallel. I'll probably tune it like that first and then start adding in the sequential functions.
The IWG is always longer, but it’s just a shorter end on the DP if there’s room. The IWG Garrett G25-550/660 is 1.25” shorter than the IWG EFR6758. The housing diameters are smaller, which would probably help more than the length for fitment positioning. Which translates into more than the impeller sizes below suggest. The one thing that bugs me about BW is they don’t publish the housing ctoss-section dimensions, just mostly the lengths:
Yeah, cross sections would be nice. There are more sizes in the B1 frame, a nice set of 7163 recently posted in the for sale section here. I've got like 3/4" clearance around the housings, so theoretically could step up if ever needed. But don't think I'll need to with both of these 6758 combined it's more than enough flow for my street ported engine with, gasp, oem seals. Let's hope I don't shatter two nice EFR turbines with chras that can't be rebuilt.
Started putting in the lizard skin on the blue car. Sound deadening first, then after a few days will put the ceramic insulation layers in. This will be nice to have done because I’ve got way too many interior pieces laying around. Will free up a lot of space.
and also more work on the BNR turbos and short block slowly becoming a long block for the silver car. New studs with high temp nickel antisieze. Remflex gasket torqued to 30lbs for the brick. And new OEM gaskets for the turbos. Have been making clearance for the Xcessive LIM, and also the OMP sticks out further and needed the heat shield bent due to the sohn adapter. New sleeping for the new OMP lines which don’t come with sleeving like they did from the factory.
Out of the garage first time in a while. All prepped. Most of the OEM sound deadening is out but I couldn’t get all of it (or was too lazy to try harder than I did).
1st coat
Shaving secondary turbo compressor cover for Xcessive LIM clearance.
Of course I painted it first. But at least this won’t be seen.
OMP shield bent for clearance due to sohn adapter. Mocked up. Clearance but not everything is torqued down so I might shave a little more off to be sure I don’t run into issues. Sohn adapter New OMP lines and covering.
Last edited by TwinCharged RX7; Sep 16, 2023 at 05:45 PM.
Are the stage 2 compressor housings that much larger? I did not have to shave anything for the 99's
I think they are normal. The issue is the Xcessive manifold. There is another thread on here that explains the steps that need to be taken to fit stock twins. Unfortunately no pictures and not much detail other than bend the oil and coolant feed lines and grind on the housing. So I’ll get some good pics as I work through it. Hopefully I’ll have time to do the oil and coolant line adjustments tomorrow. This is because the Xcessive LIM has big secondary runners and sits further forward, right where the oil feed and coolant go.
I have the xessive lim too. I had to beat the manifold to engine shield to clear. But the actual turbo compressor housing did clear. Are there different versions of the xs lim? There were other things I had to tweak like you said. I'm sure I have pics of it all in my thread.
Interesting. I’ll take a look through your thread.
here is a quote from an old thread regarding fitting 99spec which were assumed the same compressor housing dimensions. Maybe you got lucky with castings? It all fits on mine now though, and the grinding was minor. Hopefully I can bend the oil and coolant lines without cracking. I’m have tempted to cut and weld them, I’ll need to find some others to practice on first though.
Getting the 99 twins to fit with the Xcessive LIM took a little bit of work. There are several things that don’t allow them to bolt right up. Here is a list of modifications that need to be made: Oil and Water supply lines need to be bent to clear the front side of the LIM
Primary turbo compressor housing needs to be cocked about 5 degrees out for the piping to fit. Fortunately the Pre-Control and Waste Gate actuators do not need modification if you don’t over do the rotation.
Oil fill neck needs to be heated and bent forward about ½” (thanks Rich for this tip).
UIM front bracket needs to be bent about ½” towards the front of the motor and the slot lowered (I did this with a dremel)
Secondary turbo needs about ¼” shaved off the compressor housing to avoid contacting the LIM.
Heat shield needs to be hammered in on the back of the turbo to avoid contact with the LIM.
Vacuum hard lines need to be bent to avoid the new position of the oil and water turbo supply lines.
Out with the EFR 9280. In with the G50-1700 + Tial 1.31AR housing. For some reason Garrett doesn’t make their own vband turbine housing for the G50 model.
Seat covers just arrived for the blue twin turbo car. Switching up from the 93 tan interior to black/red and adding rear seats. Will also do a black alcantara headliner.
