93' black touring
 

Hi all, starting a new build thread. This time keeping it mostly stock, for now at least. It's going to be a slow build, as I have a few other projects under way.

I have a 94 R2 that is heavily modified, so looking to keep this more tame. But would like to hear your advise before I get started on it.

It's stock, 93 touring, black on tan, automatic, clean title, 80k miles. It has a blown motor. I have another that I'll drop in, but keeping it auto for now.

Let me know what option you'd go with:
1. Keep completely stock
2. Simplified sequential, but otherwise stock
3. Simplified sequential, plus basic mods of SMIC, fuel system, PFC or adaptronic plug and play, AEM smart coils.

I really don't want to go too crazy, but not sure if it makes sense to stay completely stock. I have most of the parts for the basic upgrades. Wouldn't mind hearing a few opinions before making a decision.

More pics to come, but here is a pic from when I picked it up.

Nice! Stinks that it's an auto. But you can't beat the mileage.

The ECU for the auto cars has a lot of control on the auto, it does the hold feature and all that jazz. If you want to do a PFC with the auto Banzai Racing has an adapter that lets the stock ECU plug in with the PFC so it can control the auto and the PFC controls the engine.

Dale

Thanks Dale, I was starting to lean toward adaptronic PnP. Any chance anyone know if that works with an Auto or know how to make it work?

Also, now that I've done a compression test and know the front rotor has 0psi on all three corners (RCT 5 doesn't even register on the front rotor and no audible pulses), I need to get the twins off to see if they ate a seal. If they are damaged, this is going to take a turn toward single turbo real fast.

Here is our Banzai Racing automatic project car making 346rwhp http://www.banzai-racing.com/br_projects_auto_pg3.htm

We designed to Auto adapter so that any PNP manual trans ECU can be installed.

Awesome. Was just about to email you haha. Wasn't sure if it worked for the different types of ecu's, but I guess if they are plug n play, pin outs must be the same for a patch harness.

Well. No longer keeping it stock. I've had a D code short block for a number of years, the first of the peripherals arrived.

EFR 9280 IWG
ProJay 20B Bully intake kit (new billet version)
Xcessive mount kit will be used, with their "b" version oil pan to work with the REW front cover.

And yes, I know the turbo is small, but I don't need more than 700whp. And yes, I know the intake is overkill, but it's beautiful and I also don't have the stock LIM, UIM, or throttle body. So when you factor in the avoidance of buying used stock items and an Xcessive LIM/fuel rail combo, the price actually isn't bad.

And I'm keeping it Auto!!! until it breaks haha

Edit: the intake is for a PPort, I was too excited to not take pictures, it will be returned for a non-PPort version. Jay at ProJay is great to deal with.

Rad parts. Those style intakes are notorious for difficult drive-ability. The extra rotor might help. Planning any block work to handle the power?

Yeah. The throttle body is huge, but I've been reading up on how monsterbox is dialing in his driveability. I have the haltech elite 2500 too. I'm ok if it's not perfect (I'm used to the SMG transmission clunking around getting confused in stop and go traffic in my M5, which is a different drivability issue I've gotten used to)

The bock is streetported, it's a D code so it can handle the 600-700 I'm after without a lot of work. I will go with the apex seals that I see IRP suggesting (can't remember the name right now).

Nice. Looking g forward to updates.

Hopefully you break it in short order so you have an excuse to put a proper transmission in it.

So I've been spending most of my time remodeling a house, but collecting parts for the FDs at the same time.

CD009 6 speed adapter just came in from Careless. I am absolutely shocked. Now I haven't installed it, but the attention to detail and communication and even the packaging is something I've never seen before in buying low volume custom parts over 15 years of building cars. Simply fantastic.

Would love to see more pictures of the car!! Are you planning a 6spd manual trans conversion?

Started taking it apart. Probably not a good idea to have a cutout off the downpipe aimed at the oil pan and motor mounts...

Also got the twins out. They are converted to non sequential. :(

So I spent a little time dissecting the twins. Also a size comparison to a EFR 9280 for fun.

9280 vs stock HT12 twins

In the post above, you saw dissected stock sequential twins. I plan to use sequential EFR turbos..... I cut the flanges off the turbo housings (the part that bolts to the exhaust manifold), leaving the prespool and turbo control in place. I have 2 EFR 6758 turbos with internally gated VBand inlet housings. I'm going to weld small schedule 10 stainless pipes to the old twin turbo housing flanges, and weld on the V band flanges to those pipes (2 3/8 outside diameter). These short pipes will be made from concentric reducers, and the small end will need to be hammered into shape to match the old turbine flanges, as they are more of a rectangle and only 1.5" or so.

There are issues with welding to cast, but the stock twins aren't made out of junk cast iron, they have high nickel content and as long as cooled down in a controlled manner, should take to being welded.

It seems like I can make it fit, I'll then modify the stock Y pipe to the 2 EFRs so I can keep the control valves in place. If this were to actually work, it will be much better flow than the stock twins ever could as the exhaust outlets are no longer pushed through such a tight area and are no longer opposing each other prior to the downpipe. Plus, 2 internal waste gates built in will also help in controlling boost a lot better than the stock design at high pressures.

So, sequential EFR turbos, about 90lbs of max flow, ball bearing, water cooled, better wastegate management, better flow through manifold without opposing exhaust outlets. Better spool than stock twins and about 550-600whp capacity (although I will likely never try that, even if I eventually get it to work). You could also think about it similar to a EFR9180 but with better spool than stock twins.

Who knows if I'll ever finish it, but thought it would be fun to try. Will steal the motor out of my twincharged car, and use the 20b with 9280 for that instead. Its more heavily modified than this one, so this is a better candidate to keep all the original twin turbo control/wiring on.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...91dc0c3e9c.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...b0e2e51082.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...b277180c79.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...15a81bb18d.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...674dde2e6f.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...e7f26a1506.jpg
Twin EFR 6758 with V-band housings, internal wastegates

Sweet. The internal gates solve a lot of packaging problems for twin singles. If you get them to work sequentially that will be dope

Subscribed!!! I have to see how this goes. Sounds badass and I hope you can make it work.

Whoa super interesting. Looking forward to seeing this.

I'm hoping I can make some progress, there sure isn't much room in there, especially to manage 2 down pipes while still managing to get the turbine housings to attach to the stock locations in order to keep the sequential system flappers working. A long way to go between propping them up with 2x4's and being attached properly haha.

I'm going to need to get an Xcessive LIM to give more clearance near the rear rotor, the secondary turbo needs to go as far back and up as possible (while still leaving room for its downpipe) in order to provide clearance for the housing and downpipe of the primary turbo. I've ordered some pipe and transitions, will get the secondary tacked up and then work around it with the primary turbo.

A little detail on the turbo selection:
Sizing is in mm

My goal was to keep the exhaust turbine small to keep spool, still bigger than stock but think it will still spool as fast if not faster than stock due to ball bearing, lighter weight, and better aero of EFR. And then go to substantially bigger compressor to get more flow, hopefully without loosing spool. I tried to triangulate here, seeing that the SP twins have a 68mm exducer and I'm guessing it didn't kill spool, and also seeing charts of the 7670 single turbo builds that still enable really good spool. Based on that, I felt the EFR6258 was too small (and has the same packaging as the 6758 anyway), and the next size up (EFR7163) would be too much of a risk to spool, even though it had a higher top end capability, as it would go underutilized because I don't plan to push it passed 500-600whp even if I am successful.

EFR was selected due to sizes available, internal wastegate and vband housing availability, ball bearing, and light weight aero. I also like the integrated BOV.

Compressors:
Stock: 57x41.6
Bathurst sp: 68x47 (from a thread I won't mention here, only including as I used the compressor size of 68 as a factor to help understand whether my selection of the 6758 was out of wack or not)
EFR6258: 62x49
EFR 6758: 67x54 (18%x30% bigger than stock)

Turbine
Stock: 50x45
Bathurst sp: 56x51
EFR6258: 58x51
EFR6758: 58x51 (16%x13% bigger than stock)

Did you change plans and decide to not swap to the 20B or are your more recent posts for a different car?

Changed plans. This car has a blown engine (bought it that way, 0 compression on rear rotor). And it's an automatic.

It's mostly stock compared to my widebody car, so I felt like the widebody car should get the 20b. I was just going to take the good Engine out of the wide body car and put it in, but you can't bolt up a manual transmission rear iron engine to an auto tranny.

So I'm taking the whole drive train from the widebody car (manual) and putting it in this car with the sequential twins (if I can't make the EFRs work I will sell the turbos and buy the BNR upgrades). The widebody car will then get the 20b and CD009 transmission (which is why I bought Careless' adapter kit). It already has all the upgrades needed to handle 20b (cooling, fuel, ignition +2 more couls, Ecu, etc). When I made the wiring harness, I included extra fuel injector and coil wires to accommodate up to a 4 rotor, so there should be very little wiring needed.

So I made a little progress in terms of getting them in place and making sure there is actually space. It's definitely a tight fight. The reducer came in, the 1" side is circular and is too small for the rectangular opening of the turbine housing flange, but whats nice is that when you cut the reducer at an angle, its becomes more of an oval, which is actually a pretty good fit. I need to heat it up and squeeze it with the vise to make it a bit better, but it's cut. Now I just need some 2" tube with about a 45 degree angle to go between the 2" side of the reducer and the vband for the turbo. With the angle like that, it seems to give enough clearance for the 3" downpipe coming off the front turbo. It's a bit higher than I would like, and its close to the firewall so I'm going to need to run a 90 degree turn at the start of the downpipe, but still better than how the stock turbos flow. The front turbo with luck out with a straight downpipe until they merge together.

The front turbo just doesn't have enough room to mount to the flange of the old primary turbine, the angle just puts it up too high. So I'm going to have to weld straight to the manifold. This is actually good as it will place it very low (I think still enough room for the oil to drain into the front cover), and gives enough clearance for the downpipe underneath the secondary turbo. It also gets rid of the need for one of the gaskets between the manifold and the old primary turbine flange. Just need a pie cut of 2" schedule 10 SS, as it needs to be thick enough to weld to the manifold. The only parts I'm a little concerned about fitting are the wastegate actuators, they aren't that big, but there isn't much room, I'm going to order the 14psi turbosmart actuators made for the EFR series.

So I need to get a bit of pipe and then i can tack a few pieces together.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...4f9a390ff3.jpg
SS304 Schedule 10 reducer, 2"x1". Cut this at an angle to get the correct alignment at the secondary turbo flange and also get an oval shape on the small end to match the size of the flange.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...d65f2511c2.jpg
before cutting the reducer, the 2" end is perfect, just need to match the small end to the old turbine housing cutoff
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...33e9da4c76.jpg
just trying to get the secondary turbo to stay about where I want it so i can see how everything lines up
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...099823938c.jpg
I was relieved once I got the secondary turbo here, enough room for a downpipe from the primary turbo to pass to the left. You can also see the cut reducer in this picture, a small 45 or 60 degree 2" pipe will go between the reducer and the vband flange on the turbo.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7aa856550e.jpg
There is enough room for when I actually weld it it won't hit the lower intake manifold, its just touching because I have it clamped. I'm also hopeful there will be enough room from the primary turbo that I'll be able to rotate the compressor cover clockwise and face it down, getting the BOV away from the primary turbine housing and also a better shot to the Y pipe
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...d8d54c087d.jpg
Here you can see the ample room for the primary turbo downpipe, but the flange from the primary turbine just doesn't give enough room to mount the turbo to it, by the time I adapt it to 2", it sits too high, I can't really change the angle either as then I can't access the bolts to mount it to the manifold
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...76e0ac38da.jpg
Primary Turbo: so I'll port out the manifold to be more circular and closer to 2" before welding. It's just high enough to allow for turbo oil drain. and the angle will help with downpipe clearance
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7df20566b0.jpg
Both pretty much in place, again, I'll rotate the compressor covers once I have it tacked up, so that will make more sense later.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...202cfb6cd0.jpg
Better view of the downpipe clearance
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...9d7b564bce.jpg
From the side to show how far they stick out