that's freaking nuts man, congrats.

 

Ahh this thread just complicates my options, but let it be known that whatever I pick, water/alcohol or both will be sprayed. There is just no other way to go anymore.

 

I am pretty much of the same opinion, rnz'. I think all of us ought to run some variant or version of it.

B

 

Thanks, Cam!

Well, certainly running an intercooler alongside alcohol injection, provided the injection point is well upstream of the throttle, is going to extend the practical limit in terms of the intake air temps one can run versus boost. The reason I'm doin' hot air is because I don't want to run an intercooler and just want to find out how much boost I can run and what kind of IAT's it'll produce. There's going to be a limit somewhere. Just don't know where it is.

The thing on water and alcohol... they work in different ways. Water's magic is its high latent heat and specific heat. In practical terms, we want as much water in atomized form to hit the combustion chamber as possible to convert into steam and cool the chamber down plus slow the flamefront down and bring stability to the burn in the power stroke. Also I think it's beneficial pre-turbo in pulling some heat out of the compression process in the compressor ultimately yielding lower discharge temperatures at the same (comparative) pressure. That make sense?

Alcohol is different. It's not inert like water. It's a fuel and will operate as such in the combustion chamber. It has many beneficial qualities over gasoline: an "effective/dynamic" octane rating that's massively higher although I'm not sure if it's possible to truly measure it, has substantially higher auto-ignition temperatures even over high quality race gasoline, has vastly more stable burn pattern, and has a high latent heat over gasoline. Methyl alcohol in particular flashes at 52-57*F so hitting it in atomized form in the intake piping, unless it's really really cold to begin with, will flash it pretty quick into a vapour and pull heat out of the charge. That's what I'm using it for on mine. The second thing about it is it's a great chamber coolant and, when its molecular structure dissociates, its output temperature is much lower than that of gasoline, further staving off the potential for knock. Even though it only produces about half the heat energy in BTU's of that of gasoline, it's a vastly better fuel for high RPM and heavy loads. It's the reason why stuff like E85 is doing so damn well on these cars.

In practice, I am using it as a charge cooler (well, trying to see how far and how much boost I can run it before I'd have to add an intercooler) and as a way of virtually adding a very high octane, knock-suppressing fuel to the mix under high boost to simulate a high octane race gas setup albeit without the aggressive spark advance. So far, so good.

B

 

it would interest me to know your charge air temp before the alcohol

 

You and me both. The only way I've been able to come up with what I think is a close figure is by using a Turbonetics T70 compressor map. I plugged all the various temperature data into an applet I found on the web and that's where I came up with the ~300*F discharge a year and a half ago. I'd have to hunt for it again to find it. Short of hacking the pipe up and sticking an air temp sensor in there, I know of no other way to get a solid temperature reading due to the fact that I cannot find any Master Power compressor maps anywhere.

B

 

take a temp reading right before the first jet so you know how hot the air is when it exits the compressor.

 

Easier said than done, unfortunately. Not really up for pokin' another hole in the pipe.

 

what about a laser temp reader? surely you can borrow one from someone you know. If you're worried about the pipping changing the temp from inside to out, also check it at the point of the ait sensor and add or subtract temp based on that reading.

 

You would have to use something other then a typical automotive iat sensor too if you wanted this data. Awhile back I estimated the max temperature that the stock 3rd gen sensor could go, (as well as the fast iat) and while I can't recall the estimated temp I came up with, it was well below 300 degree's. You would need something designed for a higher range of temperatures. Probably similar to an egt probe. The data would be interesting though. I'm still waiting for the results of 350cc of water preturbo.

 

Hey KKM, good idea! I should've thought about that!

B

 

ive tought bout doing that when i was at a dyno.
havent got that far yet ha

 

a friend of mine used 2 digital temp sensors, that he just clamped on the metal pipes, the wires on the clamps had a small contact temp sensor , and went to a box with a switch over rocker switch.

it checked instantly temps in and out of intercooler, at different load and speeds.

he was a commercial air condition tech guy, and said they use it often to troubl shoot probs with A/C setups.

he said it gave close enough readings inside pipes, for comparision purposes.

went from 0F* to 500*F.

anyway give it some thought. better than nothing.

 

Good idea!

 

NVM wow this is an old thread

 

Still a good read though