HP limit on E85 - Page 8 - RX7Club.com



HP limit on E85

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Old 04-11-17, 12:57 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR View Post
"we realized the water injection pump was missing. Made a pass anyways thinking how much is the water really doing.

SO is this a example of how important my water injection is to my tune?"



"Uhh

You knew it wasn't working and you ran it on the strip anyway? That's an expensive experiment."



Chuck is probably if not THE most, for sure one of the most accomplished racers in our community because:

he is ALWAYS racing.

he is ALWAYS trying different things and learning

he ALWAYS shares his learning both positive and negative

and he is going fast.

i see what Chuck did as entirely consistent w his prior efforts. he clearly stated why he decided to run without water... "to find out how much is the water doing."

i offer thanks to Chuck for doing the research and sharing it w the community. it looks like that even alcohol can benefit from AI.

Howard
I don't appreciate all your bullshit about adding water injection in the Alternative Fuels section. There's an entire forum for that, rave about it there.

The simple fact is that you're adding another system with the possibility of failure, and it's a bandaid for quick fixes of power. You can't race or go cross country with it, so it's useless for any REAL build that's not set up for drag racing.

By suggesting that someone on a pump gas setup get AI to reach their power figures, you're leading them down the path of NOS. Ricer ***, bullshit. Funny thing, another person who loves that AI is RICE Racing. Great name...

Now, back to e85.

I'm sure if you ran -12AN fuel lines and 4 stage injection, you could do close to 1000whp on a 2 rotor. Chuck is awesome, he does big things, but the "HP Limit" is a stupid question.
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Old 04-11-17, 07:36 AM
  #177
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My feelings is hurt someone thinks my question is stupid. I always tell my grand kids there are no stupid questions just dumb answers, But yea maybe it is today but 7 years ago maybe not.

Current fuel system consist of two 1100hp gas rated fuel pumps with both running -10 line to the fuel rails. Six 2200 and two 1000cc injectors. 5.2 total injector time at full power.

One thing if 750rwhp is doable on e85 is the ignition up to the task. Currently running four stock turboII ignitors and four trailing coils. AFR is high 11s. 11.8. Am looking into upgrading the ignition system so the AFR can be run richer.
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Old 04-12-17, 02:06 AM
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One thing if 750rwhp is doable on e85 is the ignition up to the task. Currently running four stock turboII ignitors and four trailing coils. AFR is high 11s. 11.8. Am looking into upgrading the ignition system so the AFR can be run richer.
So true! I'm nowhere in your range as far as power but igniting really rich A/F on E85 at high boost levels is no easy task! Had to raise A/F to mid to high 11's at anything over 30 psi and mid 600's. AEM smart coils could not keep up.
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Old 04-12-17, 08:21 AM
  #179
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you might take a look at Kenne Bell's Boost A Spark. under boost the module raises Volts to your coils. Volt level is adjustable.
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Old 04-12-17, 10:21 AM
  #180
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Think this is what ill be getting. Thank Howard.

Just realized something after doing a search of the unit. My plugs are old and have a few passes on them. Forgot to check the gap. bet this is part of my issues. Ordered new plugs and going to get the boost a spark

mo money mo money does it ever end!!!!
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Old 04-12-17, 08:09 PM
  #181
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Last edited by arghx; 04-12-17 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Never mind, other thread
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Old 04-13-17, 12:33 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR View Post
you might take a look at Kenne Bell's Boost A Spark. under boost the module raises Volts to your coils. Volt level is adjustable.
Does adding this Boost A Spark not put the coils at risk? By running them at a higher voltage would you not have to drop the dwell time as well to keep them within their limits?
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Old 04-13-17, 12:51 PM
  #183
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Good News re the Boost A Spark

if you visit KB's site and do some digging you will find they are now only offered w an output of 17.5 volts.

this is a problem as the IGN1A/Mercury Marine/AEM Smartcoils (all the same except for the badging) have an internal V clamp at 17.

prior Boost A Sparks (BAS) had an adj dial zero to 50% V increase.

apparently all the "modern" coils work great at 17.5 so KB is phasing the adj out... also they said people were bypassing the dial to get more V.

however, the CTS-V can't handle 17.5 volts and is a big seller so they do have the dial/adj item.

KB does not have dealers so you have to call them.

the sales line is 909-941-6646 and the tech line is 909-941-0985 closed at noon for an hour Ca time.

ask for Mike who can be reached on either line and order the BAS for the CTS-V.

here's a link to the BAS page

Boost-A-Spark

i run my IGN 1A coils at 16 V and around 4 mS dwell.
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Old 04-14-17, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sleeper7 View Post
My feelings is hurt someone thinks my question is stupid. I always tell my grand kids there are no stupid questions just dumb answers, But yea maybe it is today but 7 years ago maybe not.

Current fuel system consist of two 1100hp gas rated fuel pumps with both running -10 line to the fuel rails. Six 2200 and two 1000cc injectors. 5.2 total injector time at full power.

One thing if 750rwhp is doable on e85 is the ignition up to the task. Currently running four stock turboII ignitors and four trailing coils. AFR is high 11s. 11.8. Am looking into upgrading the ignition system so the AFR can be run richer.
Sleeper7 is right 750 is a cake walk.

On PUMP E85 from a gas station I made 839 WHP @ 30psi. With a Aeromotive eliminator @14V and 6 2200's. -12 feed to pump -10 to the rails. I had more than enough fuel. This is a Street car not a track only car. Ignition is 2 MSD DIS2's and 4 MSD Single Post Coils.
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Old 04-16-17, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueMx5 View Post
Sleeper7 is right 750 is a cake walk.

On PUMP E85 from a gas station I made 839 WHP @ 30psi. With a Aeromotive eliminator @14V and 6 2200's. -12 feed to pump -10 to the rails. I had more than enough fuel. This is a Street car not a track only car. Ignition is 2 MSD DIS2's and 4 MSD Single Post Coils.
Damn man. What turbo was that on?
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Old 04-19-17, 09:29 PM
  #186
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I don't appreciate all your bullshit about adding water injection in the Alternative Fuels section. There's an entire forum for that, rave about it there.

The simple fact is that you're adding another system with the possibility of failure, and it's a bandaid for quick fixes of power. You can't race or go cross country with it, so it's useless for any REAL build that's not set up for drag racing.

By suggesting that someone on a pump gas setup get AI to reach their power figures, you're leading them down the path of NOS. Ricer ***, bullshit. Funny thing, another person who loves that AI is RICE Racing. Great name...
WTF are you talking about? You can get water anywhere. Cross country all day. It's not a band aid, it prevents detonation as evidenced by Chuck's experience.

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Damn man. What turbo was that on?
https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...-s483-1033394/
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Old 04-21-17, 03:14 AM
  #187
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WTF are you talking about? You can get water anywhere. Cross country all day. It's not a band aid, it prevents detonation as evidenced by Chuck's experience.



https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...-s483-1033394/
It's one more point of failure when you tune an entire system with it and the pump has an issue, you run out of water mid-drive, etc. Unless you're including a backup pump and have a huge reservoir, it's not practical.
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Old 04-24-17, 10:58 PM
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It's one more point of failure when you tune an entire system with it and the pump has an issue, you run out of water mid-drive, etc. Unless you're including a backup pump and have a huge reservoir, it's not practical.
Nothing about these cars is practical. Once you get to 30+ PSI it isn't about having a spare water pump and big reservoir its more about having a spare transmission or two and the ability to rebuild your own engine if needed.

Would be different if he blew his motor, then whined about how it was because he ran out of water. But he didn't. Chuck knew the water was down, knew the risks, did it anyways, blew it, didn't give a ****, rebuilt it immediately, and headed back to hit it again with more water.

Oh yeah, and he provided constructive feedback on here somewhere in-between all that.

In my mind, that is 100% badass mode right there. The world needs more rotor soldiers like this man.

Skeese
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Old 04-25-17, 12:53 AM
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Nothing about these cars is practical. Once you get to 30+ PSI it isn't about having a spare water pump and big reservoir its more about having a spare transmission or two and the ability to rebuild your own engine if needed.

Would be different if he blew his motor, then whined about how it was because he ran out of water. But he didn't. Chuck knew the water was down, knew the risks, did it anyways, blew it, didn't give a ****, rebuilt it immediately, and headed back to hit it again with more water.

Oh yeah, and he provided constructive feedback on here somewhere in-between all that.

In my mind, that is 100% badass mode right there. The world needs more rotor soldiers like this man.

Skeese
I wasn't referring to Chuck's awesomeness. The point was that this is an e85 forum and it's diluted with dat H2O.
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Old 04-25-17, 05:49 PM
  #190
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It's one more point of failure when you tune an entire system with it and the pump has an issue, you run out of water mid-drive, etc. Unless you're including a backup pump and have a huge reservoir, it's not practical.

That's why you use a mechanical water injection kit....you don't tune an engine any different with water compared to meth, it doesn't change your AFR's like meth. Now, that said you can't run over 12-13 psi on pump 93 without water or meth.
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Old 04-25-17, 09:45 PM
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That's why you use a mechanical water injection kit....you don't tune an engine any different with water compared to meth, it doesn't change your AFR's like meth. Now, that said you can't run over 12-13 psi on pump 93 without water or meth.
^I can completely agree with that. I have room for a 2 Gallon reservoir in one of the fender corners.

I'm not sure what you'd drive a mechanical, high pressure pump off of, and if you did one of those vacuum/boost solenoid systems, I don't think the pressure would be adequate.

The Wannaspeed Kit looks like a joke, and is priced as one too.
Rice Racing is about as "meth'd up" as could be imagined.

What did you have in mind?

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Old 04-26-17, 01:22 PM
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I use the wannaspeed kit, it's legit. You can literally see it work out of the car with an air compressor and correct connections, and I used it to run 17psi on my FC reliably. Now with that being said I can see why it could seem like a joke dude to very little materials and what not, but he has nozzle sizing and everything
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Old 04-26-17, 05:21 PM
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I use the wannaspeed kit, it's legit. You can literally see it work out of the car with an air compressor and correct connections, and I used it to run 17psi on my FC reliably. Now with that being said I can see why it could seem like a joke dude to very little materials and what not, but he has nozzle sizing and everything
When you say mechanical pump, I'm expecting something to be driven off an idler pulley with real mechanical advantage, then a PWM controlled solenoid that has it's first duty cycle percentage at 3000 RPM, and builds in duty cycle until redline.

Oh well, I'll just design it myself.
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Old 04-27-17, 04:46 PM
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When you say mechanical pump, I'm expecting something to be driven off an idler pulley with real mechanical advantage, then a PWM controlled solenoid that has it's first duty cycle percentage at 3000 RPM, and builds in duty cycle until redline.

Oh well, I'll just design it myself.
His kit works in the same sense, boost pressure switch activated at 10 psi, which for most is 3500ish RPM. But I can see what ya mean in terms of solid reliability doing it the way you're explaining, I might even run one too
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