sleeper7

Not questioning your HP. That is a cool ignition setup. Explains why you can get away with a larger gap the stock plugs have. Glad you posted this.

There is no way a stock or LS coils will fire stock plugs at 700hp. Reason why i feel the gap of the plug is very important. And with the plugs I posted the gap is adjustable and also the heat range.

With my current setup consisting of stock igniters and coils, 2$ plugs gaped at .020, I am able to run 7ms of fuel at 8000rpms at 30psi. That's six 1600cc injectors at 60psi base pressure.

afawaterpolo

iTrader: (7)

No worries its all good, trust me I'm jealous of your ignition system especially considering how much I spent on mine. Goes to show there are more than a few ways to get set ups to work if you're willing to put in the time.

Looks like you have done a lot of work to figure out what works, I like the out of the box thinking. Unfortunately sometimes people just say it can't or won't work because its easy to say no.

A lot of people told me my set up wouldn't work, it would blow, etc., especially since its not pinned/doweled, has stock bearings, air intake wouldn't work.

You know how it goes. Anyhow we are changing out the wastegate spring to up the boost and see what the turbo or fuel maxes out at on this set up running E85 only.

sleeper7

You'll get a good laugh from my boost controller.

It is a manual controller made from home depot = plumbed from turbo outlet to bottom of wastegate.

Then I have a 3 gallon air tank and pressure regulator from a compressor hooked up to the top of the wastegate.

I use the manual controller to get my low boost setting. around 25psi. Then when I want to run more boost I adjust the pressure regulator to increase pressure to the spring. Works great..12lbs spring and ran as high as 38psi. Not the best set up but cheap and very easy to adjust.

About the ignition system. Thinking with a better ignition system one can make more power, safer. With my weak ignition system it will only burn a certain amount of fuel. With a M W system, more fuel can be injected and more power will be made. more in more out. just a thought.

sleeper7

Ended up keeping the Weldon a100 fuel pump. added a secondary 255lt pump. 8 1600cc injectors. pre mix 12 to 15 oz per 5 gallons. Still on the stock turboII ignitors and coils. Also modified a 60mm waste gate down to 6psi and using a 4port solenoid to control boost.
Estimated 800+ whp has been reached, well that's what I've been told.
best times so far are
1/8 mile 5.98 and 123mph
1/4 mile 9.25 and 152mph
2650 lbs with me in the car.

Now that we got a few issues worked out we're hoping for some 8.9 seconds passes next year.

Some things we're going to try next year, run with out a intercooler and cut the e85 with Methanol. maybe 25%

sleeper7

Made the change. NO more intercooler. 3.5 inch pipe from turbo to t-body. Air temp is right before t-body. Two 1600cc injectors are 12 inches from t-body. Also installed a water/meth injection. one M5 and one M10 nozzle right after the turbo. The two 1600 injectors come on at 6psi. (secondary injectors)

Did some testing last night. Air temp before the two fuel injectors came on was noticeably higher. But one the secondary injectors came on the temp started to drop like a rock. Hard to say but estimating the air temp were around 15deg higher then with the intercooler.

Another thing we noticed was the boost. With the intercooler we had the setting set were the boost did not over boost and was pretty flat. Left the boost settings alone and boost over shot the target boost. But roughly 4-5 psi. With intercooler the start duty was 50% and held steady at the duty cycle. Now with the start duty at 50% the duty cycle went to 30% to try and control the boost.
More testing next week.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Very cool Chuck!

sleeper7

Want to add.

These results are with a S480 turbo. And at 600hp this thing does not have to work very hard like 66 or 70mm turbo so the air temp reading would be higher with the tiny turbo.

drftinmx6

iTrader: (6)

Chuck what if you sprayed water only before the turbo as well, do you think that would help even more with the air temps?

sleeper7

LOL. read your mind! Yesterday added a M5 nozzle before the turbo that comes at 2 psi. Will be testing more Wednesday night.

BUT the nozzle before the turbo will be from the same pump as the two in the charge pipe. 50/50 water, meth. I know this may be a problem praying meth on the wheel. My wheel has seen it's better day so going to give it a try as is. Would have like to use just water with pre turbo nozzle but we'll see how this works out.

Thinking about moving the air temp sensor to the manifold right before the motor. In the secondary runner. and use two secondary injectors as primary injectors. This may give us a better idea on how E85 cools the charge.

sleeper7

Did some testing last night. OH what a difference is throttle response. Increased the pre turbo nozzle to a M10. Air temps are still higher then with the intercooler but still with in working range in my opinion. Will be testing more next week and increase the two nozzle in the charge pipe. M5 and M10 to M10 and M15. May also go bigger on the pre turbo nozzle also. M15. Last night this thing was drinking the water/meth like a drunken sailor. Have to get a bigger tank.

Worried how things are going to work in this Texas heat in six months. Just add more nozzles as it gets warmer.

sleeper7

Ran 10.1 at 139 last night. 1.8 60ft. Air temps with one M10 pre turbo and one M15 right after the turbo were 10/15 higher then with the intercooler. Still working on getting the boost sorted out. AFR was high 10s. No intercooler works just takes more time to tune. It might be me playing it safe.

Sandrock

iTrader: (26)

There is no limit as long as you can keep turning up boost and keep adding more fuel :p

drftinmx6

iTrader: (6)

I think it's just you playing it safe, i think as long as you have enough water spraying and you're on e85 it should be fine, this has been an idea i've wanted to do for awhile, i feel like intercoolers are a little over rated. however, i'm not willing to test that theory just yet because i dont want to risk blowing my motor, lol

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

congrats to all on a high value thread that is in its fourth year. and why not, fuels are clearly one of the most important factors in making power and preserving turbo rotary happiness.

IAT emerges early in the thread. given the high temps coming out of a turbo at higher boost i can appreciate the interest. of course what we are really trying to do is get as many oxygen molecules into the engine as possible. when combined w fuel oxygen makes power. the more O the more power potential.

as charge air temp decreases O density increases. lower (IAT) more O, more power and it can be pretty linear.

a few years ago, looking at one of my Power FC IAT logs i decided that looking at all 27s from 2000 to 8800 just wasn't giving me the IAT info i needed. i switched to a ViPEC V88 and added two more Type K Thermocouples. some of us use them to monitor EGTs. they are accurate to almost one degree F and react to the mS.

quite a bit different than looking at 27 C for the whole run...

and, of course this info is important. i have posted a log from Sep 13, 2013. it is the tail end of a run thru 5 gears to 205 mph on the dyno. GT4094r, E85 w 50/50 WM, around 25 psi and 575 hp.

IAT directly out of the turbo before the Pettit Cool Charge IC moves from 150 F to just under 400.

IAT at the OE location (under the FD UIM) moves from 90 to just under 200.

i was somewhat surprised at the temps. the GT4094r can do 80 pounds per minute and was running around 10 pounds per minute under its max flow... yet v close to 400 F.

a combo of the intercooler, which is generally good for a 130 degree takeaway and the w/m in the elbow removed approx 200 degrees.

(you will see an additional temp spike which is from a very modest throttle lift.)

i am not happy w my IAT in spite of the fact there is absolutely no knock nowhere and will switch back to 100% meth as AI going forward. i did not have a proper fuel cell for the AI and had to get thru tech at the Texas Mile so i just added water to make it not flammable.

i do expect to see lower temps w just meth.



i expect to be on the dyno in Feb and will report in as to temps.

do consider adding a thermocouple or two to your setups... (i like Exhaust Gas Techologies offerings)

howard

sleeper7

Every time I've had my junk in the rollers all the temps are always lower then the track.

In the possess of moving the air temp sensor closer to the motor. Next time out going to just tune the thing with the current WM set up and just ignore the air temps. Cause do we actually know what the air temp is at the motor? I think 800rwhp is going to happen with out the intercooler and roughly 1200cc of WM on E85.

Moving the pre turbo nozzle to after the turbo. Just don't feel comfortable with the WM pre turbo. I like pre turbo but with strait water, not WM. Will come up with another kit to do so.

All my I/O are being used. Thinking about upgrading to additional 12 I/O. Then I can monitor more things.

sleeper7

Had it on the rollers yesterday. Hood was up, no fans in front of car, 80f ambient.
Ran it around 10 times from 4000 to 7000 and 30psi in a hour.
Air temps before each run was high 150f. Start of pull after 6psi lowest was 115f and the highest temp at the end of the pulls were in the low 130s.

It does spool faster so there is more power under the power curve. this was the first thing the dyno operator noticed.
3oz pre mix per gallon. Looks like we're going to increase to 4 oz per gallon.

Hope to make a few passes next week.

sleeper7

Made a few testes passes last night. Just running through the gears, no launching and short shifting at 8500rpms.

ALL I can say is running with out the intercooler works. And works good. Boost response is much better. I always thought when guys ran methanol and no intercooler it was the methanol that made the extra power. Got to say running with out a intercooler plays a part in making the extra power. Even at lower boost levels were the intercooler is still efficient.

sleeper7

Next project will be mixing methanol with E85. Maybe four gallons of e85 to one gallon of methanol. No intercooler and NO water/meth injection since my main fuel will contain 20% methanol. And increasing the premix to 4 or 5 oz per gallons. Currently running 3 oz per gallon and really thing 4 oz is required with e85 for my setup. So maybe 5 oz per gallon after mixing fuels.
But that will not happen for a couple months.

sleeper7

had a few more runs Saturday night. 10.0 with some 1.55 and 1.61 60 ft times. At low boost and shifting 300 to 1000 early in 2nd and 3rd gear. On average the air temps were in the low 130s. Air temp did get to 150 a few times in second gear. Thinking it was because second gear takes less then two seconds the water/meth really did not have the time to spray enough to make a difference.
In 4th gear was the biggest change in boost response. Before with intercooler the boost was slow to target boost where we were thinking about spraying Nitrous to help. No there is no need for Nitrous. Boost curve reached target boost like it was climbing a wall strait up.
Thoughts were that this car had a 8.9 in it but never really felt good about it, now with the way the boost response is, do think a 8.9 it possible with out Nitrous.

sleeper7

incar of one 10.0 pass the other night. 1/8 was 6.45


Shift light comes on at 8300rpms.
Launch was at 7900 at 9psi for testing. 1.55 60ft
burnout was in 3rd gear
clutch assisted transmission

AXA

iTrader: (2)

Why so much Premix ... are you using benol?

I only use 1 oz per gallon with E85.. do we need that much?

But I only have less than 500whp at the moment...

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Chuck, does yer car smoke a lot using that much premix?

vrx8

iTrader: (18)

Im sub 500whp and use 2oz/Gallon

ArmyOfOne

iTrader: (12)

What you guys using as motor oil and premix running E85?

sleeper7

Engine oil. Use to use the 8$ quart bottles, now use the cheapest oil on the shelf. It gets changed so often it still looks clean when removed.

Premix, Does it smoke? Don't pay attention if it does. we go by what the plugs look like every two or three passes and what the housings look like when torn down. If for a daily driven car one ounce may be fine for most cars. But as power levels increase or the amount of time the car is on the track, the amount of premix MUST go up. Also different seals play a part in how much premix is enough. Don't see 4 oz being to much for my car.

Know when it does start smoking a new turbo thrush bearing is needed, it takes a beating even at 125 psi oil pressure. Even with a blow off valve. Maybe it was bad. So no longer using one for awhile.