When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
The "local guy" may be reputable, but the part is still used. I would think a local Mazda dealer could order it. May be more than in the US, but you won't have to pay shipping. Part no is N3G1-10-400. Price down here is around $150 USD +/-
The "local guy" may be reputable, but the part is still used. I would think a local Mazda dealer could order it. May be more than in the US, but you won't have to pay shipping. Part no is N3G1-10-400. Price down here is around $150 USD +/-
Price in Canada is about $190 USD if I recall correctly. I'm gonna try to find a solution.
Again, I have a good oil pump from a low mile reman that was pulled for an LS swap just sitting in my attic in a box. Make me an offer if you want it.
FWIW I have never taken apart an oil pump during a rebuild. I didn't even take the gear nut off to pull it. I always just used a box end wrench on the 4 M6 screws holding it to the iron. Just slide it on with a pump new chain and tighten the screws with a wrench to German torque specs.
Where in Canada are you? If you’re local, I can swing by and give a second set of eyes and help with the restack. If not, maybe post something in the Canadian forum?
You had multiple things wrong with your oiling setup. You are lucky the engine didn’t run, because in short order the entire engine would have been trash.
your original line routing took all of the engine oil and dumped it straight back into the oil pan: had the engine run, every bearing would have been destroyed, and all of the irons would have blued- at that point, it would just be a question as to which bearing seized onto the eccentric shaft first.
I really have no idea how any oil managed to get to the turbo.
Your “red” line routing is functionally correct, although series-plumbed oil coolers provide 8 times the pressure drop across them compared to parallel-plumbed coolers. It won’t affect cooking performance, but it means your oil pump has to work a bit harder, and the entire system pressure will be higher leading up to the pressure regulator, which means an increased chance of leaks. How much higher is entirely dependant on your entire system design.
Again, I have a good oil pump from a low mile reman that was pulled for an LS swap just sitting in my attic in a box. Make me an offer if you want it.
FWIW I have never taken apart an oil pump during a rebuild. I didn't even take the gear nut off to pull it. I always just used a box end wrench on the 4 M6 screws holding it to the iron. Just slide it on with a pump new chain and tighten the screws with a wrench to German torque specs.
I like to buy stuff from people that help me, but this time I cannot, borders USA/Canada are closed so I can't access my address in USA (I would've asked you to ship there). I opened the oil pump only to see if there was any damage. Now I'm an expert at rebuilding these pumps!
Originally Posted by scathcart
Where in Canada are you? If you’re local, I can swing by and give a second set of eyes and help with the restack. If not, maybe post something in the Canadian forum?
You had multiple things wrong with your oiling setup. You are lucky the engine didn’t run, because in short order the entire engine would have been trash.
your original line routing took all of the engine oil and dumped it straight back into the oil pan: had the engine run, every bearing would have been destroyed, and all of the irons would have blued- at that point, it would just be a question as to which bearing seized onto the eccentric shaft first.
I really have no idea how any oil managed to get to the turbo.
Your “red” line routing is functionally correct, although series-plumbed oil coolers provide 8 times the pressure drop across them compared to parallel-plumbed coolers. It won’t affect cooking performance, but it means your oil pump has to work a bit harder, and the entire system pressure will be higher leading up to the pressure regulator, which means an increased chance of leaks. How much higher is entirely dependant on your entire system design.
I'm in Quebec, I don't see many Quebecers on here (probably because of french). I think the bearings were starting to seize up. Strange for the oil in turbo... It was all black. Maybe it was exhaust fume... I'm not quite sure.
Thanks for confirming the "red lines" routing, I'm going to keep that diagram preciously!
You have one of Canada's only rotary shops 90 minutes from you. Why don't you go there, ask them for help, or buy your parts from them? I told you this last year and you didn't listen. Look where you are now.
You have one of Canada's only rotary shops 90 minutes from you. Why don't you go there, ask them for help, or buy your parts from them? I told you this last year and you didn't listen. Look where you are now.
I bought lots of parts from Derwin Performance already. They also did my engine porting.
Where I'm at now? Well, car didn't run since 4 years. I rebuilt the engine myself and I did some mistakes.
But!
Total cost for these "2" rebuilds will be about the same as if I sent them the engine for 1 rebuild. And most importantly... I've been owning the car for 13 years and I plan on keeping it for decades. My knowledge on this car has improved a lot. In my opinion, it has been all worth.
I like where I'm at now and I am satisfied with the decisions I took. When I'm done with this rebuild I'm going to send the car to Derwin Performance for a tuning session.
"I've been owning the car for 13 years and I plan on keeping it for decades. My knowledge on this car has improved a lot. In my opinion, it has been all worth."
Again, I have a good oil pump from a low mile reman that was pulled for an LS swap just sitting in my attic in a box. Make me an offer if you want it.
Originally Posted by MuRCieLaGo
I like to buy stuff from people that help me, but this time I cannot, borders USA/Canada are closed so I can't access my address in USA (I would've asked you to ship there). I opened the oil pump only to see if there was any damage. Now I'm an expert at rebuilding these pumps!
Can you double check if you've got 1 rotor set that is OK? There are 2 rotor sets per pump (they are both exactly the same).
That's all I need...
Yeah, sorry the surfaces that are supposed to be ground mirror finish have marring in the direction of spin. I think they would chew themselves up eventually. Must have had some grit go thru it... shouldn't be hard to find in the FS section. I had quoted around $20-$30 to ship it to you USPS.
Yeah, sorry the surfaces that are supposed to be ground mirror finish have marring in the direction of spin. I think they would chew themselves up eventually. Must have had some grit go thru it... shouldn't be hard to find in the FS section. I had quoted around $20-$30 to ship it to you USPS.
Thanks anyway, I appreciate it. Same thing happened with the local guy, that's my only missing piece (right now).
So, there's a guy here who would sell me a brand new single turbo harness. He has built it himself (his 3rd) and he is a well known guy locally. Price is good.
As in a stock harness that was modified or a whole new harness built by hand?
There's definitely an art to building all new harnesses, it's one thing to make a harness that will pass a bench test and another to make one that will last and be solid for years and years.
Yeah, sorry the surfaces that are supposed to be ground mirror finish have marring in the direction of spin. I think they would chew themselves up eventually. Must have had some grit go thru it... shouldn't be hard to find in the FS section. I had quoted around $20-$30 to ship it to you USPS.
IMO, as long as the scoring didn't result in any raised ridges, they will do no harm - they will just serve as reservoirs for oil to additionally lube the interface. Some rubbing surfaces are intentionally designed that way. And if there are raised ridges less than a thousandth or so, you could polish those off by hand on some 400-grit emery cloth or emery paper.
As in a stock harness that was modified or a whole new harness built by hand?
There's definitely an art to building all new harnesses, it's one thing to make a harness that will pass a bench test and another to make one that will last and be solid for years and years.
Is your harness damaged?
Dale
It's a whole new harness built by hand. My harness is more than damaged! For sure it has to be changed, so it's a great opportunity!
So I received all internal parts from Atkins Rotary and the bearing press tool set from Pineapple Racing. At first I didn't quite understand the tool set from Pineapple for the first rotor bearing so I pressed the bearing in too far for about 1/4''. I pressed it back out, there doesn't seem to be any damage so it should be good. At this moment I understood how the tool works so I know that it is in good position.
Today, I would like to bring back a subject. The corner seal plugs.
As I mentioned before, 10 out of 12 were completely destroyed (I think the 2 good ones were OEM from Mazda and the other 10 were from Atkins). So I went ahead and blamed Atkins. However, I'm not even sure Atkins offer aftermarket plugs.
Why have they been destroyed? I want to understand. They have been destroyed pretty much all in the same pattern. What is preventing the corner seal plugs from going back and forth?
And what's the purpose of them? What happens if somebody just ignore them and don't install them (I already bought 12 OEM but I would still want to know).
Also... Main bearings installation. I tried to search, without success. How am I supposed to align that notch? Why is it there? I know I've got to align one of the holes with the screw (any will do I'm guessing)...
May want to see what the shop manual has to say on pressing those bearings in. I haven't personally done stationary gear bearings - I've done rotor bearings before, though.
BTW, I think I mentioned it earlier - get a Sharpie and a straight edge and draw a line on the outside of the bearing with whatever you need to line up (the notch, hole, etc.). Makes it WAY easier to perfectly align the bearing when you're on the press.
I'm baffled by the corner seal plugs. They are there for a reason - they help low speed compression. I've never seen any that look like that after a tear down. Also weird that they look like that with so little time on the engine.
If you think about it you were not getting oil from the oil pedestal to the bearings. The front cover is where the Hot oil is supoused to come out to be cool. I short words "Heat". You were trying to start the engine without or minimal lubrication.
I wouldn't worry so much trying to see what happened to those plugs after finding the biggest issue here (heat due to oil system failure or oil lines routing failure). To be honest I was expecting all your bearings to be destroyed.
May want to see what the shop manual has to say on pressing those bearings in. I haven't personally done stationary gear bearings - I've done rotor bearings before, though.
BTW, I think I mentioned it earlier - get a Sharpie and a straight edge and draw a line on the outside of the bearing with whatever you need to line up (the notch, hole, etc.). Makes it WAY easier to perfectly align the bearing when you're on the press.
I'm baffled by the corner seal plugs. They are there for a reason - they help low speed compression. I've never seen any that look like that after a tear down. Also weird that they look like that with so little time on the engine.
Dale
Alright, I referred to the FSM and it was quite simple. The bigger hole lines up with the oil passage. I used the Sharpie trick for the rotor bearing, however I did not use it for the main bearings. If I had to do it again I would not use Sharpie for the rotor bearings neither. I was just very careful with the alignment, using a dead blow hammer at first.
Yes I still do not understand why the corner seals look like that... And I don't like it!
Originally Posted by Red94fd
If you think about it you were not getting oil from the oil pedestal to the bearings. The front cover is where the Hot oil is supoused to come out to be cool. I short words "Heat". You were trying to start the engine without or minimal lubrication.
I wouldn't worry so much trying to see what happened to those plugs after finding the biggest issue here (heat due to oil system failure or oil lines routing failure). To be honest I was expecting all your bearings to be destroyed.
Well to be honest I think both rotor bearings were still fine (but I still replaced them). 2 main bearings were destroyed (and it took NO force at all to take them out on the press).
So today is Day 1 of reassembly. Here is the first iron all ready. I'm fighting with Hylomar, it is very thick, they say it doesn't dry (oh god it does dry and very quickly). I used some acetone to thin it down but I still can't believe I'm using that product again (I had some leftovers). I don't like it.
You use it only in the waterseal grove.. use a piece of side seal or something sof similar size to spread it in the grove of the water seal. It is less mess.
use small, even amount of rtv on the legs. ( thats me, though). Thats what worked for me.
That looks messy though.
You use it only in the waterseal grove.. use a piece of side seal or something sof similar size to spread it in the grove of the water seal. It is less mess.
use small, even amount of rtv on the legs. ( thats me, though). Thats what worked for me.
That looks messy though.
I followed your adviced, I removed the Hylomar from the legs and put Permatex Ultra Black instead.
Front iron is all done. This is the last view I had before I put the housing on top of it.
As expected, I managed to start the car twice tonight. First time 5 seconds, 2nd time about 75 seconds.
I had 2 problems here: 1st was a loose ground on the starting circuit, 2nd was a low compression.
It runs pretty strange now. I have to keep my foot on gas pedal, otherwise it stalls.
Everytime it stops, compression becomes low, so I have to pour transmission oil one more time.
Turbo isn't connected, few nipples aren't connected on UIM, LIM to UIM isn't bolted... There are vacuum leaks everywhere. Could it be the reason why? I just screwed the small bolt in front of the throttle body that adjusts the idle.
And... To your experienced ears... Does it sound like it's running on one rotor? Remember, there are vacuum leaks all over the place right now and this is the first time the car really started after lots of months trying and trying. Engine has also been "street ported" by a rotary shop.
I started reading this thread just now and instantly realised that your problem was this grouding wire as i had exactly the same mistake of not conecting it back after installing back the engine. Each page i read i was hoping you would quickly find the reason as I know the struggle. I literally did everything you did. Fortunately for me it didnt take more than a day to realise the issue. I feel your pain and glad you eventually found the issue. Great that youre doing this yourself and learning from it. Good luck for the 2nd rebuild
I started reading this thread just now and instantly realised that your problem was this grouding wire as i had exactly the same mistake of not conecting it back after installing back the engine. Each page i read i was hoping you would quickly find the reason as I know the struggle. I literally did everything you did. Fortunately for me it didnt take more than a day to realise the issue. I feel your pain and glad you eventually found the issue. Great that youre doing this yourself and learning from it. Good luck for the 2nd rebuild
Hopefully it'll solve the problem. Low cranking speed was the main thing here and I'm supposing the lack of oil to the bearings was the main cause. Thanks for your nice words.
So today I didn't do much because I'm out of Super Glue to install the apex seals.
I'm persisting on the corner seal plugs subject.
There's a gap between the corner seals and the plugs. Is it normal? I mean, nothing is holding the plugs from falling out in the apex seals grooves.
Is that the apex seal spring?
You have 2 apex seal springs.
i thought that you had the engine assembled by now. If I am following your process, you have irons with silicone? You can not let that silicone dry without assembling the engine.
04-08-20, 12:51 PM
