Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

Expensive lessons be had. My engine was smoking fairly bad after I rebuilt it. I tore it apart to find that the oil control rings stuck, puzzling since i used new springs and seals and installed them correctly and didnt tear an o ring. I wish that was the only thing that went wrong because my corner seals dug the **** out of my newly resurfaced side housings. I used new corner seals, new buttons, and new apex seals and installed them correctly as far as I could tell, why they would scratch the crap out of everything is beyond me. On top of that the chrome on my brand new rotor housings look faded. Hopefully they are still good, as im assuming it just takes a break in period to make them have a mirror finish we are used to.

So far my front rotor has scratched my front side housing and my middle side housing front side, i havent even checked the back sides yet. I was rather frusterated.

Could someone shed some light on what went wrong or why my oil seal rings jammed up to begin with?

click for bigger image

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Do you have pictures of the rotor on that side?

dubulup

Did you use a good assembly lube? Did they give good spring back when assembled?

Did you check clearances after your irons were lapped? Did you check clearances on your new corner seals?

Sounds like the high side tolerance off your new corners were too much for the low sided iron tolerance...since they were resurfaced (someone could have shaved a little too much)

What did your shaft end play look like after you torqued the flywheel down?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

What apex seals did you use?

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

Yeah the oil seals sprung back fine durring assembly, i was actually obsessed with anything that needed to spring back and made sure they did. Side seals sprung good and they were new with new springs. The corner seals sprung just fine, I dont see how lapping irons is going to change rotor and corner seal clearance since the rotor housing determines that. I didnt measure, didnt see a reason since they were new corner seals... etc.. End play was checked and corrected to the T. I made several trips to the dealership making sure i had new bearings and several spacers to test from.


I used RA apex seals. If I find out that these housings are indeed good im going to sell them.

black93RX7

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

I have seen several housing which used RA apex seals and they were in bad shape.

When you rebuild again I would suggest using factory seals, thats what I did.

Hope things work out for you.

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

welp i took off the other rotor and the other side housings have the same gouges. I gave you guys some misinformation about new corner seals, i only bought new corner seal buttons and re-used 4k mile corner seals. The seals dont resemble any damage that are showing up on the side housings, the side seals are new and they look fine. The surfaces of the oil control rings look fine too. I'm so friggin confused. Anyone torn an engine apart this early with lapped side housings? Could it be that without the nitrite coating that there is accelerated wear durring break-in? I doubt it though, these cuts have a razor sharp step in them like the rotor machined the side housing. Now that i think about it the oil was a little gray, i thought it was just from my assembly lube. Man what the heck is going on.

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

well i double checked the rotors themselves. the side surface inside of the oil rings has wear, like they have been making contact with the side housings themselves. Only 2 things can happen hear, either the o-rings are too short or the rotor housings are too short. The rotor housings are brand new, and I have new RA o-rings. So what the hell could be the problem?

saxyman990

How do your bearings looks? Have you measured the clearance on them? Bad bearing clearances can cause the rotors to slap the irons and rotor-housings. You see this quite often as the result of spun bearings.

-Rob

Edit: Forgot to ask: what about end play? Did you measure that when you rebuilt the engine?

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

end play was corrected. i didnt bother checking the bearings since it was built 4k miles ago by guitarjunkie, and i see no reason for it to suddenly cause problems just because i take it apart.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Another reason not to lap irons...some people do not try to recoat them with the factory nitriding, and those who do usually do not get it right...leading to excess wear all around on the irons. You cannot prove to me that a decent used iron is EVER any worse than trying to lap housings when they don't need it.

I can't say I've ever seen a groove dug like that around the iron though. Even if an oil seal were not totally installed into the rotor, tensioning the block together with the tension rods would have "seated" it automatically. It's pretty much impossible to have too much spring tension on oil seals, unless something were in the groove under the oil ring before installation, or unless the ring bound up on something in the groove while being installed, not letting it seat itself.

Those rotorhousings look fine to me...they generally start out a slightly dull gray color, which is the grit finish used to break in new seals. After about 5-10k miles the finish wears down a bit, and after about 15-25k it begins to look like regular chrome that we see in used housings.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

That's nice to know!

scathcart

Looks like the rotor gear walked out of the rotor and contacted the side housing. It does happen; they're only held in by roll pins.

I see some multi-window stationary gear(RX-8?) bearings... is this a high rpm engine? If you're regularly taking the engine above 9500, gear walk is common, and will chew right into a non-nitrided side-plate. Ask me how I know.

Check the gear-rotor width with a 3-4" micrometer and compare it to the width of the rotor housings. Take a look at the gear on the rotor, too. Is it dull, or shiny? If its shiny, there's your problem.

If not... check for a bent eccentric shaft and that the rotor spins wthout wobble on the journal.

GUITARJUNKIE28

what would the apex seals have to do with the side housings?

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Oil seals make a circular pattern. You had a burr or piece of **** stuck in the corner seal, the end of the apex seal, or side seal/side seal groove near the corner seal.

luiml73

iTrader: (1)

I noticed from other threads that you have your car running now, but I could'nt find how you fixed the problem. Did you rebuild it yourself again, or did you have someone else do it?

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

i got one from pineapple racing.
I found out what i did wrong. When i took the rotors out for cleaning, i was distracted for a few mins, came back, and labled the rotors wrong. I wont make that same mistake again.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I don't think that would have had any impact at all...the 13b rotors are all interchangeable. The only difference comes when you install oil seal springs, wihch are directional...and if you get them backwards, then later down the road (a few 10k miles or a few years) when the oil seals start to flatten out a bit, they can begin to spin and eat themselves up causing more smoke. There's no way this could happen on a brand new engine even if it were the case.

luiml73

iTrader: (1)

I was very carefull with my oil seal springs, and double checked that they where installed correctly. I'm still worried something elso can go wrong. we'll see


BTW: What did you do with yout brand new housings?

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

hrm, well if switching them didnt kill them i still dont know what happend then. I know i put the seals and springs in correctly. I tripple checked that before putting it together.
I still have the housings. The chrome hasent even broken in yet, only on the edges. I'll prolly let them go for 500 for the pair +shipping.