Yes that would work. All that is left is to control that solenoid with a pressure sensor.

 

I dont know. I dont completely like this idea. I'd rather have a backup, so I can boost. while this idea will work, keeping the car from boosting would suck, IMO.

Can we find someone with a bad o-ring or something that wants to try this? i'll gladly install the system on the car for test, hehe.

 

Damn you people... your ideas are killing me...

if any1 of you are going to throw your aftermarket IC away... please donate it to me... i still could not imagine the 7 wivout an IC. Its just plain weird hearing it. hehehe

I dont mind getting the kit from you, Zero. But i will try to find the parts here first. Then, if im missing some, ill PM you. Im still in the middle of putting my turbo back. So it will take time.

The two stage is not a bad idea... just make sure to test it and retest it again b4 you sell it to people... How many are interested in the kit??

 

Im working on the schematics right now. Currently I use a 6.32-7.75 (40/60 psi) GHP nozzle at the elbow to the Manifold. I bought 5 more nozzles to experiment with. I will start with a .63-.81 (40/60 psi) nozzle that is attched to the IC exit. It will come on at 1 psi. The other nozzle will be changed to a 3.16-3.87 nozzle (40/60 psi) nozzle and will remain at the entrance to the manifold and come on at 8 PSI. This brings me about total of 5 GPH.

I will use another pressure switch and one more selenoid. This will use less water than currently and my guess is it will be just as effective since the water comes on at a slower rate, but much earlier in the process. I will be able to change nozzles if I find its not enough water.

I love to work on my car and do cool things with it, I'm not interested in selling kits. I will do it if someone cant get the parts or is too lazy, Just PM me.

 

i understand what you mean. Self accomplishment is greater than money... like i said, the problem wiv me is the lack of availability of parts. I just wish is as easy as in the states.

 

Well it's better than having an engine kill switch. At least the car would still be drivable.

 

From your wiring diagram you are powering the pump and the water solenoid at the same time. Is there a lag period between when the pump gets power and creates full pressure? Seems like in might work better to run the pump all the time and have a return line, similar to a fuel system set up. That way you would always have full water pressure. May the lag isn't significant enough to worry about. Another advantage of the return line would be you could use two water solenoid each on their own pressure switch (one set at a higher boost) to create a dual injection set up.

I didn't read the entire thread so sorry if this has already been talked about.

Your diy solution seems like a nice alternative to aquamist. I am considering wi as a substitute for a low boost v8 application, only because there isn't a good place for an IC.


mark

 

I use a bosche style relay that has 2 87 pins (87 and 87A) The selenoid is on 1 and the pump is on the other. However it makes no difference, you can wire the relay from the water pump line. I use .17 inch ID polypropelene hose. The first time you run it, it may take 1 second to spray. From that point on, the water stays in the line. When the selenoid closes the water is right there. its instant. I have tested by taking the eblow off and jumping the selenoid.

hope that helps.

 

The more I think about it the more I like this water injection idea. My other option was a water to air IC, but I think is has the same reliability issues has water injection. If it leaks you could run out of water, if the pump dies it won't work, if one of the hoses gets blocked it won't work. Very similar to water injection. At least water injection raises the octane. Let’s see do I want to spend 150 dollars or 1000+

I was looking at my tecIII manual and I have several GPO's that I can set to activate at any rpm + map. May run two water solenoids for a staged set up.


mark

 

Just got back from Hawaii

While I was there I was lucky enough to participate in an FD meet. One of the guys there had a friend come with his Mr2 which had a turbo kit. The funny thing about the setup though was the car didn't have an IC, he was using water injection alone to control detonation at 7psi! However, the pump he got from aquamist broke and he was only able to run about 3-4psi of boost, and even then he was having problems with too much heat. I just found it pretty interesting that he's able to run 7psi with JUST Water Injection, kind of a testiment to the technology

 

I went to a dual mode setup today. The changes I made are below:

I replaced the 7.7 GPH @ 60 psi nozzle (6.32 @ 40) with a 3.85 @ 60 psi (3.16 @ 40) Before I put the elbow back on I watched it spray and OMG it is a far finer mist than the larger nozzle. It may be that the smaller the nozzle the better of a mist you get. Anyway, it was like night at day. So I installedt his one first and drove the car. The cooling effect was identical to the larger nozzle. I then began stage II.

I removed my intercooler and from behind the exit endtank I Drilled a hole for the new nozzle. I chose a very small nozzle, about 1 GPH.This one is spraying into the endtank, so I want to make sure it all evaporates, rather than condensating in the intercooler. This one comes on at 1 PSI and runs as long as I am in boost. At 8 PSI the other nozzle comes in and joins it. I did the stage II for 2 reasons. I found that the 7.7 GPH nozzle that I had was a little too much for my system (atleast at 8 psi). Not only was I using alot of water (my new setup cuts it in half), but when I got into high RPMs my car would start to break up a litte or feel soft. My new system doesn't do that. It pulls HARD.

I chose to put the other nozzle in the IC for 2 reasons, first on a really really hot day, it will pre cool the air before even getting to the elbow, where it will be cooled again. the 2nd reason, I do believe my intake temps will drop further than they are now and be maintained even easier. Currently I average about 28-32 in conservative city driving. I feel I will likely be about 25-28 average with the new setup, but have not tested yet.

The new system requires all the parts as the regular system, excep you need another selenoid, pressure switch and brass fittings, and of course another nozzle.

 

I told you that setup would work better. He he he. Can't wait to see your final results.

 

sometimes it takes a while to sink in.

 

Dual mode... YUUUMMMM...

Zero, so now that you got everything running, how much hp would you think can be gained by going to the dual mode WI system?? and how much boost are you able to run safely??

 

Did you just T it off the existing feed hose from the previous setup? It wasn't mentioned in your post.

 

yes, I tee'd it near the ABS bracket, routed the hoses underneath that and under the hoses that connect to my rx7fashion cold air box to my IC.

I'm still experimenting on what boost setting to run the 1 PSI at. Also, I bought a 90 degree elbow for inside the IC end tank so I can better angle the flow. I may install that today.

No times yet, the car is way more peppy in hot weather. I run 13-14 psi on the street on 91 octain with my Blitz smic.

 

Back to what Wade posted (first few pages, I haven't read all of them) about keeping a more constant water/fuel ratio, throughout the rpm range, not just boost specific; Has anyone thought of using an injector style setup? I don't know how they like water, but I imagine that there is a way to tap the signal from the fuel injectors and run an additional water injector. If you are looking to keep a 15% water/fuel ratio with stock sized injectors, just find a 390cc or close injector and still have it come one at the desired boost. This might be a little complicated, but it's just an idea. Let me know what you think.

 

if you where to use a fuel injector and pulse the signal you would have to set up some type of water return line and run the water pump all the time just like the fuel system. You would also need a fuel rail to put the injector into.

The way he is going it is power the pump and solenoid at the same time. If you did this and pulsed the injector the pump would be pushing against a closed injector between pulses. Not sure if it would damage the pump. You could pulse the pump to but I don't think it could handle the frequency of the pulses.

I agree your idea is ideal, just harder to set up.

mark

 

you could still configure the system (and need to) only when you are in boost. So the pump would start at 1 psi. I dont think you need that other equipment, aquamist does not use it (atleast I think).

I found a link that has an electronic box that you hook up to your ecu that regulates the water based on fuel. I'm looking into that, hard to find data on it.

 

Re: Soon my exhaust should be steam cleaned....

Has anybody ever thought about that one for a second !?

What happens when water hits hot explosion !?
Steam, ever tried to get grease / oil off the driveway !? What's just as good as grease cutter if not better !?
Steam Pressure Cleaner !? Why !? It makes oil dissapate.

SO...... Guess what's happening inside the rotor chamber... !? Squeeky clean Apex seals with "0" Oil on them...

PERFECT !!!

Unless someone can disspute this, I would seriously concider the risk of steam clening your engine...

-DC

 

You seem to be so against water injection yet you can not back up any of your claims. Not one. I can find web page after web page after web page talking about the benefits of water injection, yet I cant find anything negative except the potential for hydro-lock.

Please show me any evidence to support your theory. Any at all.

There are 2 things to consider:

1) you have a better chance of detonating without WI.
2) You can make your OMP inject more oil via your power fc if you want.

Ask rice racing or marshall how thier single turbo Rx7's with WI are holding up.

 

hey Zero
would you mind sharing where you got this stuff? also i looked at the aquamist site and it looks like you can buy individual parts from them, though i don't know any of their suppliers. maybe one of their nozzles?
but their simplest kit is listed at over 300 pounds (price, its a british company) and last i checked a pound was worth a good bit more than a buck so i'm all for trying your setup.

anyway, where'd ya get the water tank, filter, and pump? i know the water tank was a blitz but couldn't find it.

also, any detail on how the nozzle is mounted and the work done to the elbow??
thanks

 

forget about blitz that was 5 water tanks ago. You can use any water tank. Im currently using a 1.25 gallon rubbermaid container as in this pic, I just bought the 2 gallon version and im going to mount that one. Just pick something that you can mount good and that is big enough to last you based on your useage.




If you look at my injector on my elbow you will see its angled so the it gets the maximum area for the spray. You want it to be mounted in the widest area possible, because the spray pattern is 90 degrees. If you put it in a narrow area, its going to hit the sides of the pipe and drain into the IC instead of evaporating, get it?

you can look at the links in this thread, hell here is the link again:

http://www.members.aol.com/raydorman..._noz_parts.htm

Look at the misting nozzle, it connects from in the elbow, you place the 90 degee outside the elbow and torque the misting nozzle in place. then you connect the water hose to the other side with a brass fitting.

I warn you to be very conservative with the size of the nozzle and the boost that its activated. Remember 6.32 GPH @ 40 psi, is about 7.7 @ 60. that was too much for my car.

 

Ok...In my ever evolving quest to make my neighbors think I'm crazy I took my elbow off my car and did some re-positioning of the misting nozzle. Actually, from the picture it looks the same, but inside the elbow hides a really cool design. I recommend to install yours like this, I'll give you the basic idea, you will need to buy the brass fittings to make this work.



You see the picture above. Its easy to visualize this, the injector is screwed into the brass elbow that you see on the elbow. So its spraying down from that position. Infact you can see the angle in which the brass elbow is attached to the plastic elbow. The spray goes at an agle toward the manifold. Make sense?

Ok, so I thought about this for a while, the hot air goes into the elbow and goes the SAME direction as the water. It more or less pushes the water into the engine where it will turn to steam. I feel like I had results, but i'm always looking for a better way, enter my new idea.

the brass elbow is still in the same location as before, now you need to visualize this cause I dont have pics.....but under the plastic intake elbow connecting to that brass 90 degree elbow is a 1.5 inch 1/8 threaded brass pipe, which connects in turn to another 90 Elbow which holds the injector. the injetor now faces towards the intercooler. When it sprays, the mist goes in the DIRECTION of the hot air, rather than with the hot air.

when I took the elbow off and tested the new configuration, the misting was really cool, it would actually make it all the way down the elbow toward the IC. Im sure now that all the water will be steam before it even gets into the engine.

as I get updates I will be updating this thread. Im getting like 2-3 PM's and IM's per day about my setup, all I ask is that you read the thread first, as I dont always have enough time to respond to PM's. Also, im always open to suggestions .

My current configuration has a 1 GPH misting nozzle in my intercooler end tank (exit) and a 4 GPH misting nozzle as described above in my intake elbow. Both come on at 10 PSI as of right now, sometimes I change it to 8.

 

I used to be all for WI, but just as I was about to go out and buy an Aquamist System I was chatting with my Mechanic and he said to me that in piston driven engines WI is possibly a great thing since the Oil sits under the O Ring and continuously lubricates the O Ring and the Piston, with a rotary you have a whole different mechanism... and the effects of Steam Cleaning your Apex Seals won't show up until you dismantle the engine, to replace apex seals or whatever and see rotor scarring....

According to Rotary Folklore... Getting the apex seals not to scar the rotor housing was THE Biggest Obstacle to overcome on rotary engines... so I'm all for cooler air and less chance for detonation, but not at the expense of my rotor housings...

And I don't have any concrete evidence to back this up, it just makes sense to me and I wanted to share some common sense that might have blinded some people in the quest for cheap HP gains...

Everything comes at a price, in my Opinion even WI, and THAT's what I'm trying to say here... If you figure you're going to go through an engine every 60K or 100K anyhow, and look at it like an Oil Change, that has to get done periodically, go for WI !

-DC