ZeroBanger

What causes atomization is the PSI running through the injector. When you are running 12 lbs of boost in the setup you are talking about a max of 12 psi will go through the injector. It will not atomize enough.

water injection needs to be done right.

Kento

What you seem to be forgetting is that proper atomization occurs through a venturi only if there's a major difference in pressure from one side to the other. Using boost pressure to inject the water into the manifold means you're only injecting into an atmosphere of equal pressure. Much higher pressure than the boost you're running (manifold air pressure) is necessary for proper atomization.

ronbros3

I read somewhere, in a fluid dynamics book, the droplet size halfs for each full bar of pressure increase, and they actually are round in shape, so it may seem the higher the press the better atomization, guesstemates about 500psi would be all most steam, which would make for better in chamber mixing,raising effenciy of what we are trying to accomplish, I realize that makes things more expensive. thanks RON

ronbros3

opinion about venturi it is a restriction does not help overall VE, I talked this over with a carb man , said that water is compltly defferent than gasoline, somthing about sonic ratios 1/2 way thru the vent (I got lost), I think he knew about carbs , helped design the famous holley 4 barrel for racing hre in daytona, anyway i believe hi pressure the way to go. thanks RON

ronbros3

oh well one last thing, im still screwing around with a 60 - 90 psi system WI / alky, i cant say good or bad , rotarys mazdas dont come alive till 15 lbs boost then stuff really happens at 20 lbs and up, so some thing for in chamber cooling will be required.

ZeroBanger

if you are running 12 lbs or less a 60 psi pump is fine assuming you have injectors that fully atomize at or around 60 psi. For more than 12 psi, 100 psi pumps are fine. The mist is very fine. Its not just a matter of increasing the psi of the pump. For example if you have a nozzle rated at 5.0 GPH at 100 psi and you were insane enough to install a 500 PSI pump, the nozzle would then be spraying approx 11.5 Gallons per hour and drown your ignition as that will be too much water.

cover8

I design plants for a living...large spray dryers and such...if possible to have a variable frequency pump driven by a pressure transmitter. You set the pressure and it modulates the pump (PIC). Voltage from the injector can be the driver for relative increase in the PIC setpoint which then will modulate the pump. This is called "cascade" control in PLCs. For a fixed orifice system there will have to be a minimal pressure setpoint which below will disable the water injection. If for some reason you wanted to run very high boost you can increase the orifice which will consequently drive the pressure required for the same atomization as a square function of the diameter...friction factors will limit amount of flowrate independent of pressure.

I am worried about forgetting to fill with water and blowing a motor...would be nice to switch programs when driven daily then when more aggressive, could switch to wi program. Would be nice to have a low level warning at least if not interlocked to a level switch on the water tank.

coolingmist

We offer electronic devices to detect clogged nozzles, water flow and low fluid on the tank. The clogged nozzle detectors are really cool and they work.

coolingmist

We are offering a group buy in the group buy section. The link is in my sig. feel free to checkout the group buy and ask any questions. We do group buys only once a year, so this is the time.

Thanks!

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Looks nice, anyone else have feedback on their water injection setups?

coolingmist

I wanted to update this thread since it has alot of value for those that are seeking a water/methanol injection setup for your car. When I started this thread 2 years ago I had no idea what it would turn into. As you will be able to tell we have changed alot since the first post in this thread.

Before I go any further I need to thank Paul (AKA Rotorbrain). When I first built the kit for the FD he convinced me to sell the kits. He purchased the first kit that I designed. This year we incorporated as coolingmist, llc and opened a retail outlet in Atlanta Georia. If it wasn't for Paul, I doubt coolingmist would exist today.


Jason does carry our products in his store. Our methanol injection tuning computer is just about ready. For those that want the technical details of the controller and capabilities please read below.







Controller Specifications:
· 16 Bit High Speed Digital Signal Processor (DSP) Control that operates at approximately 0.5ms.
· A tunable linear control algorithm updates the Motor control output > 2000 updates/second.
· 16 Bit Motor current control resolution provides finely tuned output adjustments of 0.001% of the maximum Motor current draw.



General Specifications:
· 10 position tuning switch limits maximum pump pressure to prevent intake engine bogging down.
· Boost pressure operating ranges 0 – 30 PSI, 0-100 PSI or 0-30” Hg vacuum (depending on model #) with an integrated pressure sensor.
· Variable Min and Max boost pressure settings with large ***** and resolution of 0.01 PSI over the boost pressure operating range.
· 12 bit resolution reading on boost pressure (0.01 PSI resolution over boost pressure operating range).
· A single green status LED simplifies operating status determination.
· High speed RS232 serial communications port operating at 115200 baud to allow data logging, analysis and custom configuration/calibration of the unit using Vari-COOL PC software.
· Coolingmist Vari-COOL software provides precise adjustment and configuration of VariCOOL operating parameters.


Physical Specifications:
· Operating temperature range of 0 - 85°C (32 - 185°F)
· 10/32 Male threaded pressure input port accepts 10/32 Female to barbed tubing connection that can be easily sized to accommodate various tubing sizes.
· Heavy gauge all aluminum enclosure construction with black powder coat paint for long lasting finish durability.
· Enclosure mounting tabs provide ease of mounting in any location.
· Durable label is smudge proof, chemical and petroleum products resistant and does not deteriorate over time.


Electrical Specifications:
· Operates on wide input voltage range 7 – 26 VDC
· Up to 30Amps DC to the pump across the operating voltage range (using proper wiring and fuse).
· Unit itself draws less than 50mA with the Motor control output turned off. This means that if the car is not running, this unit can run off the battery alone for a very long time.
· 0 – 5VDC Auxiliary Input with transient voltage protection and 12 bit resolution (0.01 V resolution) can be used with any 0-5VDC sensor to control the Motor Output level or monitored (via serial port).
· External automotive style fuse protection that can easily be sized to accommodate various motor sizes.
· Can be wired directly to the electrical system for always on operation or wired through an Automotive Relay connected to the ignition switch for ignition switch operation.


Vari-Cool software specifications

Overview

Software talks to the Vari-Cool unit using a serial port that will work with any compatible PC running Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2003, Windows ME, Windows 98, or Windows NT.

Vari-Cool operates in 2 modes. Run mode and configuration mode. In run mode, you monitor data collected by the Vari-Cool unit. In configuration mode, you can set tuning and calibration parameters.

Serial Port

Vari-Cool serial port has the following settings:

Baud Rate 115200 baud
Data Bits 8 bits
Stop Bits 1 bit
Parity None
Flow Control None

The Vari-Cool serial port connector is a standard 9 Pin Female DSUB style connector. The Vari-Cool is configured as Data Communications Equipment (DCE device). The connector pin out is as follows:

DSUB-9 Pin Number Function
2 TX – Transmit Data
3 RX – Receive Data
5 GND
* Other pins are not connected and have no function

Run Mode (Status LED Fast Flash)

The Run Mode is the default operating mode of the Vari-Cool controller. While in the Run Mode the Vari-Cool controller continuously runs the motor control processing loop. This loop reads the inputs and adjusts the motor control output accordingly. In the Run Mode a Status Message can be requested or setup to be sent automatically on a configurable Timer period.

The following data values are monitored, logged, and charted with the software:

- Operation mode (0=Run Mode, 1=Configuration Mode)
- Boost Pressure Reading (PSI or “Hg, whichever applies)
- 0-5V Auxiliary Input Reading (%)
- Output to Motor (%)
- Minimum Pressure Setting (PSI or “Hg)
- Maximum Pressure Setting (PSI or “Hg)
- Tune Switch Setting (1-10)
- Auxiliary Input Switch Setting
- Controller Status

Configuration Mode (Status LED Slow Flash)

The Configuration Mode of the Vari-Cool controller provides an operating mode in which Configuration Parameters can be read and written.

The following parameters are able to be modified:

- Minimum Motor Output (%) – This is minimum output at which the pump is able to operate and spray water. This value defaults to the requirements of the pumps we supply. If you use a different pump, you may need to modify this value.
- Maximum Motor Output (%) – This is the maximum output at which the pump should ever operate. This value defaults to the requirements of the pumps we supply. If you use a different pump, you may need to modify this value.
- Minimum Pressure (PSI or “Hg) – This is the minimum calibrated range of the pressure sensor supplied with the Vari-Cool unit.
- Maximum Pressure (PSI or “Hg) – This is the maximum calibrated range of the pressure sensor supplied with the Vari-Cool unit.
- Tuning Parameter – This is a parameter that will change the shape of the output curve to the pump. This can be used to account for any non-linear effects of your vehicle, pump, etc. By default, the unit will be calibrated; however you may wish to work with this curve to obtain even better results.


Coolingmist does things right. When we set out to design a product...simply put...Its better. When we designed our checkvalve we had it made out of brass and gave it a 45 lb cracking pressure. This makes it bullet-proof and the safest water/methanol injection kit you can put on your car (much more reliable than ANY solenoid or cheap plastic checkvalve). When we designed our kits everything was designed to be put together seamless.

Our controller is no exception, infact it re-writes the rules of controllers. We are the first and only controller on the market that is user-configurable. This makes a great option for those that want to tune to the last detail. No other controller will allow you to do that. For those that just want a simple controller you are in for a pleasant suprise. The Vari-Cool coolingmist controller is designed to be superior to all other controllers out of the box. This means you can install the controller on your car and be able to fine tune to your vehicle far better than any other controller on the market..without even using the software.

Look at other controllers on the market and compare. We designed ours to compare favorably to all other controllers in Design, ease of use, performance, durability and functionality. We are certain that we can say this is the best, highest performing, most user friendly controller ever built.

Dont you love it when you purchase a controller and then 3 weeks later the newer and better one is out? Or every 2 months release a new "Stage". ?

We dont need to do those gimmics here. Because of the software, if we come out with a "stage II" it will be a simple software download. How is that for convenience?

Here is a sample of how you can change the output curve. Note that this is just a sample, the possibilities are infinite and can be configured to your own needs if you wish.

RX7LINK

iTrader: (3)

omg, this thread is crazy long. Actually the closest aquamist distributor in Cali is probably F-Max fabrications. www.f-max.com. Their website is no longer functional, but i believe they're still in business. They're in Escondido (near San Diego, California).

Prior to this FD, I had a 98 Prelude w/ the fmax prototype turbokit w/ aquamist water injection system. The system worked great, except i had to relocate the water nozzle. Which i want to address to what "Chronos" was saying about mounting the jet close to the IC. That's what i had on the prelude in the beginning, the nozzle was on the IC pipe right after the IC. I agree w/ what u said about the cool air being denser, but PROBLEM is, whenever u let off gas, the remaining water mist in the IC piping falls and lands on the inner surface of the IC piping, causing it to rust on the inside, and eventually, the rust will get blown into the motor.

you'd think the water should evaporate in the IC piping, but the more efficient ur IC runs, the less water evaporates. That's exactly what happened to the prelude. I took out the IC pipe and was all rusted on the inside after the IC. So i relocated the water nozzle to about 6" away from the TB on the IC pipe.

I do like Aquamist's setup due to smaller parts. so its easier to hide things or for cleaner installation.

my .02

-Link

Indian

iTrader: (1)

what better, water or alcohol? and why........................

afgmoto1978

iTrader: (6)

Can washer fluid be used since it's a Water Methyl Alcohol mix?

mibad

Yes, there are people using washer fluid. I don't know what percent methanol it contains. I think most people run close to a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol.

Brian7

"No contest, water cannot compete with alcohol when the purpose is for supplimenting the fuels octane rating."

Richard Lamb.
Technical Development
Aquamist.co.uk

Marshall

David, have you been able to get your checkvalves to work in conjunction with an accumulator?

coolingmist

We sell quite a few accumulators and I have never heard of anyone not being able use the checkvalve with it.

David

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

David,
I couldnt find a place for the tanks I got from you, so I designed my own. I didnt want to displace any oem equipment and I wanted easy fill access and I wanted the tank not to be visible and have at least a gallon capacity. My tank fits behind the plastic directly underneath the hatch latch and will be joined to the rear washer tank as well as using its fill spout. It has a capacity of 1.1 gallons plus whatever the washer tank holds. I also designed a pump mounting bracket that takes advantage of unused oem mounting holes and is completely hidden and does not displace the jack and tools. The tank will be constructed of either aluminum with a clear prexiglass top or carbon fiber with plexi top. There will be windage baffles to control water sloshing within the tank. Heres a few pics.

7racer

a3dcadman,

if you plan on running any methanol, aluminum isn't compatible from what I recall.

a3dcadman

iTrader: (1)

alkyl aluminum salts

chuck

audiobot7

coolingmist

Absolutely amazing.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

is there any proven documentation of hp gains with this water injection? also, where do you recommend plumbing it into the intake?