Hey ZERO, I forgot to ask about the problems you have had with your WI. In that other thread you stated that you've had blown many fuses and your water lines have been replaced and you went through 7 water bottles. Did you not put a small hole on the top of the water bottles to relieve the pressure from the suction underneath? What have you done now to make it more reliable? Oh and thx for the diagram !

 

Well..

My fuse blew cause my relay had electrical tape and the engine bay melted the tape off. The solution would be to move the relay to the inside of the car or to buy a relay that has the wires attached to it instead of terminals. If course there is heatshrink tape, etc.

My water tank kept cracking. I never found a professional tank. I found a heavy duty plastic bottle (safeway plastic laundry detergent bottle 3 QT) that is tough enough to last. It fits behind the spare tire well near the turn singal assemblies.

Thats all.

 

I don't think a professional tank is neccesary. That 3gallon oil tank reservoir you once had should have worked. Did you not put a couple small pin sized holes on the top of the water bottles to relieve the pressure from the suction underneath. Thats probably why they cracked. Remember, all the windshield washer fluid tanks have the relief hole on top to prevent this.

 

yes I had those, lol. They cracked from hitting a bump on the highway.

 

Wow. I just finished reading the past 10 pages of this thread. Great work, guys!

In reading though this, however, two ideas have come to mind.

1) It seems that there's a lot to be gained by having a setup that can keep the amount of water injected at a set ratio to the amount of fuel injected. A two stage system somewhat addresses this, but perhaps the pressure could be controlled by switching the solenoid on and off and variable duty cycles, similar to how the Apexi/Greddy/HKS Electronic boost controllers use the duty cycle of their boost control solenoids to alter the boost pressure seen by the wastegate. Obviously the pump would have to put out a relativly high pressure for the water to go from the solenoid to the nozzel in a short in the time that its open, but the pumps you guys seem to be using can run at extremely high pressure. Keeping the distance from the solenoid to the nozzel as short as possible would also help. You'd also need a system capable of controlling the duty cycle of the solenoid based on boost pressure, IAT, or whatever, but the AEM EMS is prefectly suited to do this, and I know that there are some rather simple circuits that can do the same thing.

2) A very good point was brought up regarding the interplay of water and oil in the combustion chamber. In a piston based engine it nothing in the combustion chamer should see oil anyway, so its mute point, but steam blasting the apex seals in a rotary engine is another matter altogher. If premixed oil in the air charge from the fuel injectors can be brough to adaquatly coat the apex seals (at a much lower ratio of oil to fuel then the ratio of water to fuel, no less) it seems that A LOT of water will be trying to fill the same space. This is the number one reason why water / alcohol injection is not something I'm currently planning on running on my FD, but is something I plan on running on my Integra. Perhaps reducing the amount of oil injected via the OMP or reducing the ratio of oil to fuel premixed in the tank and subsequentially injecting the difference oil into the IM could achieve a similar affect?

 

Im not trying to rain on your parade but you are missing the entire point of this thread on your point # 1. This is the DIY water injection. Very easy to set up and very cheap. If you want a set water to fuel ratio get the AQUAMIST system. This system is for someone that wants a cheap and easy to install system.

For #2, someone brought up a good point on another thread I read. Take a knife and soak it in oil. Then boil water and create steam and put the knife over the steam for 5 minutes. The oil will still be on the knife.

Even if the oil somehow gets cleaned off the seals more will be injected on it anyway.

You are more likely to detonate without water injection then any potential damage it can cause your engine.

Later.

 

Still, with my first point there are several ways it can be done cheaply and easily, it just takes some time and thinking through (which is what DIY is all about!). For anyone like myself familiar with the AEM EMS (which admittedly I'm not running in the FD yet, but I've used in previous cars and I'll by using in the FD as well shortly) it can be done through software in about five minuets. Completely independent of that, you can buy a voltage to pulse converter (or something like that) from American Semiconductor for about $2, which increased a 12v pulse frequency (duty cycle) as a function of voltage. Just hook it up to the map sensor, use a potentiometer to calibrate it and a pressure switch to enable it and BAM, you've got a DIY water injection system that uses the duty cycle of a solenoid to control the water flow into the system.

As far as 2# goes, do you have any references? Its not that I don't believe you, I'm just extremely interested in the subject I'd very much like to take a look at that thread. If I can convince myself that this is completely safe when used in concert with rotary lubrication methods then this is going to be one of my next projects.

 

for #2, just try it yourself. otherwise it was eitehr on a thread on this forum or on the "other" forum.

 

An update incase anyone pulls this thread up in a search.. about 6 months ago I was experiencing a very strong hesitation when I hit about 5000 RPM or so. I thought my igition coils were bad. Sometimes the hesitation was mild, other times the hesitation was enough to make the car fall flat on its face. Eventually I figured out that it was happening from having too much water going into the engine at too low of an RPM. To fix this I put a 2 GPH nozzel in my intake elbow and a 3.5 gph nozzel in my intercooler. the one in the intake elbow comes on at very low PSI, the 3.5 gph nozzel comes on around 11-12. I found this set up works best for me.

Its good to experiment with different size nozzels to see what works for your set up. If you find you get hesitation you will need to raise the boost level, add alcohol or make the nozzel smaller.

I'm working on getting very detailed instructions on water injection installation for the 3rd gen. When they are ready i'll put them on my website.

 

I came across this company that has a controller that will vary the voltage to the pump for progressive output with boost. This should help make a system more in line with the Aquamist 2d.


www.alkycontrol.com

Mike

 

Geeesus. reading 10 pages...

anyways...

So its been several months/year maybe since the
water injection have come up..

For all you guys that been using Water injection.
do you know or are aware of any adverse effects
on the motor from the Water?? any type of corrossion
and etc??

and in WOrse case scenario, your water injection malfunctions.. and your Car HYDRO LOCKS..

What is Hydro lock?? and can it be fixed??

Thanks

 

your not going to get hydrolock from running water injection on a FD. Its going to be near impossible.

too much water will cause your ignition to break up.

 

This guy is only copying other peoples work & attempting to make money off it.

Judge for yourself:
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/sh...threadid=22844

If you would rather support Alky System builders who innovate & improve the technology, See:
http://www.alkycontrol.com/
or
http://www.smcenterprises.com/
Thanks,
Steve Monroe

 

Ummm, there's no question that WI has been around for a while. ZeroBanger never claimed to invent it. And regarding the Buick thread, well...that's his kit for sale, not someone elses. And the other links you provide show kits that are priced higher.

Nice of you to join the forum here just to bash someone else. now leave and take your hate with you.

 

A shurflo pump, few fittings from mcmastercar, and a progressive controller based on MAP or MAF signals isn't exactly innovation.

 

Considering they make a lot of their own parts and are working on new stuff every day, vs taking someone elses parts list & going shopping with it to make some bux, I fail to see why you guys support this parasite (Look up the definition)
I was considerate to him on the other board until he spouted his shuck and jive cr#p.
Also, I would never have posted here except that he came over to a Buick site and tried to take away business from people who support our cars. It's not about hate. It's doing the right thing.

 

I talked to Julio at alkycontrol and he was very nice and informative. I do not know who this Steve Monroe guy is, but his post was completely off base. Zerobanger has put together a nice basic kit and spent much time detailing it for others. I think that is very comendable. I do not recall anywhere in his post that he said that he was trying to sell this to make a profit. This was done for himself and for other people to benefit from his research and how it applies to the 7. Is it the best system, no. Is it the most cost effective, yes. Are the parts dependable and reliable, yes. That is very important. Fancy and tempermental will always loose to bland and reliable.

I suggeted the alky kit as a something inbetween Zerobanger's kit and the Aquamist stuff. They are both different and Julio swears by 100% methanol as opposed to water or water/methanol mix. Either way a good system should be able to run all three. Ratio is ratio no matter what substance. I think the alky system is a good deal for the money as it includes a 3 bar map sensor as well. It has more control than the basic kit but also cost more. So does the aquamist kit.

Everyone just has to decide what they want and how much they want to spend. Just make sure it is reliable if you plan to tune around it.

Mike

 

Steve, I was writing this prior to your last post. I was unaware that he was posting on the Turbobuick site. I was basing my coment on what has been posted in this thread. Like I said, Julio from Alkycontrol was very nice to me on the phone and we talked for about 1/2 hour. When my car is up and running, I plan on meeting up with him to design a kit for the Rx7. I live in tampa and he is in St pete so it's a no brainer. Maybe this endeavor will leed to even more product development. I am very **** so he will have his work cut out for him

Mike

 

Michael, I understand and no offense taken.
As far as to who I am, you will find my DIY alky page as the reference for nearly all the kits out there today. I was the first to use the Shurflo pump in a system and put up the first DIY page. I had no desire to become a dealer since it can really mess up your free time.

As Steve Chlupsa of SMC Enterprises once said, "Steve Monroe should get the credit for pulling alky out of the gutter from where it was in 1996 and making it a respectable mod by coming up with a reliable kit."

I don't think I jumped the gun on my opinion about the kit your man is selling. Maybe I did but so far there is nothing new in his setup.

I've seen this scenario several times before where someone successfully completes the project then decides to go into business with grand ideas. I don't give support to them or respect them unless I see R&D on their part for improving the technology.

Copycats only take away from all of us who want to progress beyond where we now are.

Julio borrowed a number of my ideas and I support him b/c he has the talent to make this thing better.

I'm glad you're hooking up soon. I'm sure he'll have all your answers.
Regards,
Steve Monroe

 

WOW...

Im copying peoples work and trying to make money off of it. Thats amazing. I'm selling my kits at a good price and people seem to like them. I originally wasn't even going to sell my kits, but I got a million requests and decided to do it.

The entire point of my kit was for someone that cant afford an aquamist kit and doesn't want to find/build all the parts for himself.

You need to stay out of my business. There is NOTHING wrong with what im doing.

 

Marshall...

I think you recall when I first started running this system YOU were the one that helped me the most. I think I sent you 10 or 15 emails asking you questions and you answered everyone of them for me, thanks alot for your help.

-------------------------------

As far as stevemon's comments. I never, ever claimed to "invent" it. I never "claimed" to have an "innovative" kit. What I have is a kit that anyone can afford and as long as people want to buy it, I'll sell it. Its that simple. Get a life.

 

Your so called DIY kit uses a NOS switch that is NOT adjustable. Your kit does NOT have a water filter, Your kit uses a DIFFERENT model pump, your kit doesnt use 12VDC solenoids, instead lists something as important as that as "optional". your kit thinks an "on off" switch is "optional".

Conceptually, water injection kits all have to have the same parts at least in theory. They need a pump, they need a nozzle, they need a solenoid, they need a water filter, some boost detection switch, etc.

You need to leave this forum.

I was considerate to him on the other board until he spouted his shuck and jive cr#p.
Also, I would never have posted here except that he came over to a Buick site and tried to take away business from people who support our cars. It's not about hate. It's doing the right thing. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

Show me any thread where I said I created something new. Rx-7's have the tendancy to blow up and detonate. I blew my engine up on the dyno and then when I heard about water injection thats when I put it on my car. I ran it for a year before I sold a kit. I wanted to make SURE it was reliable and that it really works.

yes you are 100 pct right, there is NOTHING new in my kit. Im not marketing it as a new product. This is for someone that cant afford an aquamist kit and wants a quality complete kit at a good price.

and last, I got permission from the owner of your board to post my kit.

 

OK, well spoken. Everybody got their perspectives out for all to see. Now lets drop all the politics and stay on topic!

 

i can vouch for ZB's WI kit, it is awesome. he also smoked me many times on the freeway using it.